What was the trick to amplifying your modeler?

[GJgo]

what's your favorite SS option so far?

I have an ISP Theta Stealth, ss, stereo, 90W per side / 180W bridged mono @ 4 ohms which sounds good. But since I'm not playing live , hove no volume restrictions, and have an Engl E850/100 dual channel power amp...I use the Engl.

So far the best balance in the band has been my Mesa into the Suhr Reactive Load IR, direct to FOH / monitors. I did try also running the 4x12 along with the RLIR but standing between the cab & the monitor got phasey which was muddy in the live mix. I like one source of truth.

The Fractal direct FOH also works if I have a good patch but I just like the amp / IR a little more.

I used to have an older Helix that wasn't as good as this AM4. My other guitarist currently has a Helix Stadium that's also not as good.

If I were to run just a normal amp / cab / mic setup I do prefer the cab to be quiet enough that the PA is still doing the work, and I don't get a phasey issue standing between the cab & the wedge.

 

[tallcoolone]

You guys are going to laugh, but I usually use my Mark IIC+ as a power amp only, for a stage monitor with a 4x12, and run my Kemper main outs to FOH and Monitor out to the Effects Return of the Boogie. "Cab off" on the monitor out.

Whatever works and inspires you is the right way my man

 

[rsm]

So far the best balance in the band has been my Mesa into the Suhr Reactive Load IR, direct to FOH / monitors. I did try also running the 4x12 along with the RLIR but standing between the cab & the monitor got phasey which was muddy in the live mix. I like one source of truth.

The Fractal direct FOH also works if I have a good patch but I just like the amp / IR a little more.

I used to have an older Helix that wasn't as good as this AM4. My other guitarist currently has a Helix Stadium that's also not as good.

If I were to run just a normal amp / cab / mic setup I do prefer the cab to be quiet enough that the PA is still doing the work, and I don't get a phasey issue standing between the cab & the wedge.

My VHX has a Cab Sim that can be used on an XLR "record out" that can be set to DI, CAB or IR Loader, and headphones out; and allows user IRs to be loaded. I haven't tried the XLR record out or headphones yet. Either one or both XLR out, headphones can be used, with or without the speaker cab output. I run it like a tube amp head into a pair of Mesa 2x12 cabs, no cab sim or IRs. Very flexible tho'.

My ISP Theta Pro and MSX have both stage out (to a power amp and guitar cabs) and direct out that can be used at the same time; I haven't used both at the same time, but I've used the direct out to powered PA cabs and to power amps into the Mesa 2x12 cabs.

 

[JonPearson1994]

For quite a while, running FOH right off of the modeler output with IR and running stage volume through a tube power amp and guitar cab was pretty much the ideal setup for me. I never liked any FRFR setup. I didn't like a solid state power amp into a cab. It had to be tube power amp into cab. It really does help the overall room sound, especially close to the stage, but mostly it helps me to feel more connected to my sound and I do play better because of it.

 

[SFW]

My FRFR journey stopped at the Laney LFR-212. That thing thumps like a real guitar cab.

Things that helped me to get the tones that I am happy with out of both my Kemper Stage and my Quad Cortex... High and Low pass. And understanding them. What I do now is look up the frequency response for the speaker I am using in the IR. Then I apply those frequencies to the high and low cut in the unit. For example, the Celestion EVH speaker's frequency response is 75hz to 5,000hz. So that is where I set my high and low cuts at. Now what I get out of the PA is much closer to what I hear out of my actual amp. (Celestion has this information on their website for all of their speakers.)

You have to dial your direct out at the same volume that you will be using at a gig. LOUD! Fletcher Munson is a real thing. You need to dial it in at a loud volume to truly understand what you are getting. Once properly set, your tone at lower volumes is going to sound dull. However, through a PA that is running at volume, your tones will pop like you want them to in the context of a mix.

If you are going to run a guitar speaker cab for your monitoring, be sure to set a path in your AFX specifically for it that does not include a cab sim or an IR. So, you will have one path for FOH and one path for your power amp and speaker cab.

Going digital is a journey. It takes time to wrap your head around a few different concepts. You are no longer thinking of "amp in a room." You are working for miced up guitar tone. It took me a minute to really grasp that concept. Check out your favorite artist that is using digital on YouTube. Alot of new bands will show rig rundowns and have videos on how they have their gear setup. Hell, some even share their live patches online. This is nice because you can see how a national touring band actually sets their sounds up.

Have fun. It's a journey.

 

[DanTravis62]

I love modelers for practicing and recording, but they have only sounded great in a live band situation when we have played theaters and similar sized venues where the PA is worth a hundred grand or more.

You're never going to get it to sound that good with FRFR or something. Or at least, it hasn't in my experience.

The best results i've had for amplifying a modeler into a cab are with either a super clean or super high powered rack power amp with my kemper. Power station, big wattage SS stuff (like people use for PAs and bass gear) and big boy guitar power amps like a sim 2:90 and 2150 into a wide ranged but guitar-voiced speaker like an EVM12L.

My "home practice" setup for my kemper is a cheap rocktron velocity 2x50 power amp into a 12L. It sounds fantastic for home practice, but I wouldn't gig with it.

 

[nightlight]

I agree with most of the advice here. Other than programming at gig volumes, I'd also recommend learning how to use the global EQ control on your modeller/profiler so that you can tweak your tone to suit the venue.

I used to get awesome results from my Axe FXIII and Kemper into a Fryette PS-2 and then into a Mesa Boogie Thiele with an EVM12L. Don't know why I sold that speaker.

Also, blasting speakers on stage is a sure fire way to ruin the experience for the audience, because cabs tend to be very directional, even FRFR cabs. So whoever's right at the front will get inundated by your instrument. Ideally, you should set it to a volume that allows you to monitor (stick close to it) your rig rather than dominate the FOH setup wherever you're playing.

And yup, IRs are your friend at these venues. In a pinch, I'd have no problem running my amp into a TwoNotes CabM+ and then into a speaker just so that I could send out a DI with the guitar sound and IRs to the FOH. Don't even have to run the amp too hot to do this, and you should still be able to monitor.

 

[SonVolt]

Are you guys trying to go from the modeler to an amp to a cab? Then how are you getting into the PA?

I just got an AM4. Into my DAW, meh. Out of my studio monitors, same meh. I haven't tried it with FRFR yet but a buddy has a rackmount Fractal, Crown power amp to a FRFR 4x12 and that gets some decent tones- but not tube amp quality.

All that being said, the AM4 direct to the PA is killing it in the live band and so far (and all my band mates agree) is superior to micing a cab. In this setting, the tones are cutting & easy for everyone to hear at reasonable volumes, and sound just like polished album tones. The key I've found is to only use the PA / monitors and don't also try & run a cab. Having sound coming from both a cab & monitors really muds things up- you need one source of truth.

I put this together to hear some comparos. Note when I do not run a HPF the PA tones are moving plenty of air to feel satisfied. When I do, guitar alone gets much less satisfying..

That sounds killer!