Which Amp?

[MistaGuitah]

Played the Smallbox. Loved it. It does almost anything with a few pedals... but is it better to buy a more versatile amp? I have been looking at the amps listed in the poll. To me they all sound really good but I do not have experience of gigging with different amp heads, so it would be helpful to hear from people with experience. If you ask what style I play then I will say it's a lot of metal, rock, blues, and classical. I do a lot of what they call noodling on lead guitar but am learning popular songs and joining a band.

 

[ChurchHill]

Just my opinion, but the Friedmans, Bogner, and Diezel would be the ones I'd be looking more closely at. The Mark V is a great amp, but it seems the JP2C is more highly thought of. All of them are good amps and valid choices.

It's definitely worth it to go play as many of them as you can. Videos and reviews can't really tell you about how an amp feels to you. Besides, what works for one person may not for another. An amp's tone and feel are possibly the most important things about it and that's so subjective.

Again, just my opinion, but I think the Shiva 20th is great for the styles you list and doesn't need pedals to be versatile. On the other hand, the Dirty Shirley is as versatile as the pedals you're using with it. Same for the Smallbox. I haven't played the VH2, but Diezel makes some amazing amps and I'm sure it's quite versatile, too.

Good luck on your quest! It's amazing how many great amps are available today... and equally bad for my wallet!

 

[DeathbyButterslax]

What about the BE-50 Deluxe? Sounds like it nails right what you are after

 

[MistaGuitah]

What about the BE-50 Deluxe? Sounds like it nails right what you are after

It's too expensive for my budget.

 

[nevusofota]

Shiva is a great amp. It does everything well. However, one that wasn’t on your list and should be considered (budget consideration) is the 5153 50w. It’s one of the best deals in the current amp market along with the Marshall JCM2000 DSL.

 

[the rossness]

Generally, I'm not a friedman fan. I've played them multiple times and usually pass on them. I did play the JJ once and like it though. Of the ones you listed, I picked a mesa mark v. Its quite an amp and has amazing tones and versatility. Instead of the Knucklehead, I'd tell you to take a look at a Rivera Fandango. Much more versatile amp.

 

[4406cuda]

I have had a Mark V and a 20th Ann. Shiva. I preferred the Shiva. I currently have a Friedman Smallbox and a Fractal FX8. For me, it is the best setup I have ever had. I play in a cover band that plays everything from Sade to Alice In Chains.

 

[maddnotez]

The Shiva was my vote. KILLER amp.

I second the JP2C though. I got one and absolutely love it. Amazing cleans, Brutal metal. The only thing it does not excel with is 80`s plex

 

[Markedman]

I have the JP2C and it is by far much better than any amp I've have ever owned. The clean channel is great and the lead channels can do all the great rock tones, from country/jazz smooth to the most deafening brutal metal tone. Without a boost! Other features such as the built in cab-clone and midi make this amp a winner. It's only two years old and about $1,700.00 on the used market.

 

[garey77]

From this list: Mark V. Best all around amp up there, plus you get a smaller footprint than most of the others mentioned, which you can mount on a 1x12 or verticals 2x12 and not have it look funny.

 

[GuitarGuyLP]

If you get a chance try a PRS Archon. Great hard rock and metal amp. Killer clean channel, could always add a dirt pedal if you need a better lower gain sound but it responds very well to rolling down the volume.

 

[CJrocks5150]

Love the Friedmans. Killer tone. I’ve got the BE100

 

[Mailman1971]

If you get a chance try a PRS Archon. Great hard rock and metal amp. Killer clean channel, could always add a dirt pedal if you need a better lower gain sound but it responds very well to rolling down the volume.

+100 on this. Love my Archon. Does AC/DC to Metallica by just adjusting the gain a tad.
Sounds feels killer

 

[MistaGuitah]

Thanks. All good suggestions here. The Mark V is really looking good to me right now. To be honest, I found more in common with the JP2C and the Mark V than different. I think they sound similar in many ways even though you can hear some distinct differences. The Mark V seems to be more versatile for single coil and humbucker pickups than the JP which isn't as good with single coil guitars in my opinion. I love the lead tone of the JP but there are a few great lead tones in the Mark V, so that's a hard one to decide. Some reviewers disparage the Mark IIC+ and Mark IV modes of the Mark V, but I used to have a Mark IV and it sounds pretty dang good to me. I don't miss my mark IV at all.

The Shiva 20th is a monster but my reservation is that I'm kind of an el34 guy. I played the 20th with el34 tubes and it did not have the same magic in my opinion. It's a remarkable amp though so it may be what I can always fall back on. On the Marshall side of things there is the JVM and the Dirty Shirley too. With the Dirty Shirley, it's only a minor adjustment in my playing to use my guitar volume to go from clean/dirty sounds. It's tone is so great that even though I am super impressed with the Smallbox, I cannot get my mind completely off of the Dirty Shirley. If it was a 2 channel amp then it would be so hard to pick one or the other.

The Satch JVM is not available for me to play, but I have listened intently to all of the videos and audio examples I can find and as far as I can discern, it is more capable than the JVM of better quintessential Marshall tones. In all honesty, I don't think the JVM should be abandoned though as I still find it very appealing in its own right so I cannot clearly justify the extra cost of the Satch JVM.

Lastly the Dual Rectifier since it's revision is amazing. It's like they took something off of the Roadster and put it into the reborn rectifiers so I like them very much now. There is amazing versatility in that amp so it's not like the Mark V necessarily blows it away in the versatility department. One thing about the Mark V is sometimes, not all the time, I wish it had more character like the JP. Sometimes it comes across as plain vanilla to me for whatever reason and I'll get bored of it for a few days and then it starts sounding amazing again. The rectifier never ever bores me so I think whatever it has that the Mark V doesn't makes it so attractive.

I thought getting some feedback on this would help my decision but I feel like I will regret not having another of them no matter which one I choose. Now I don't know what to do at all because time is short and I have to make a decision. My frustration level is mounting.

Lastly I want to consider things like build quality and support, but they all have good support. Even Marshall in the past has taken care of me. It seems like Bogner, Friedman, and Diezel have the superior quality, but there are a million Mesa Boogies and Marshalls that have toured the world without fail so it is unclear if there really is a such thing as superior quality past a certain level. What is the best option for starting a band? Should you buy an amp like the Smallbox that makes the best pedal platform or go with an amp that can deliver all the tones without pedals? Is there really a reliability factor at this level or are they all reliable?

By the way, I came across this awesome Dual Rectifier and I think it's so cool.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...dual-rectifier-100-watt-tube-head-blacked-out

 

[ChurchHill]

Well, first, I'd say don't count out the 20th Shiva because it doesn't use EL34s. I've heard, too, that the ones that do don't really have the magic that the KT88 version does. I'm usually an EL34 guy, too, but I don't miss them at all in my KT88 20th Shiva. It has all the cut and all the juicy mids. Honestly, if I didn't know that it wasn't EL34, I probably wouldn't know the difference. Anyway...

You mentioned the character of the JP2C vs the Mark V and I think that's a really good point. For me, I'd take character over versatility, but I also have more than a few amps. So, I think that part of your decision is deciding if you want something that has character or a jack of all trades. There are valid reasons for both...

Which leads me to ask, what kind of band are you wanting to start? If it's strictly a cover band that plays everything from George Jones to Slayer, a jack of all trades would likely be a good thing (if you're going for authenticity). If you're interested in finding your own sound (even if you're still only playing covers) or if you're wanting to play some or all original music, maybe a character amp would be better. Of course, that also adds the complication of whether or not the character of the amp fits your character and style. Mesas aren't Marshalls, Bogners aren't Friedmans, and Diezels are, well, Diezels. Some of them work for some players and some don't. That doesn't make one better or worse than the other, just different.

Another point to consider would be what your role in the band would be. Great rhythm amps aren't always great lead amps and vice versa. However, some are. If there's going to be another guitarist, you might want to consider what they'll be playing through and find something to compliment it. Something that sounds thin on its own often works much better in the context of a band, especially with multiple guitarists. On the other hand, being the only guitarist in a three-piece allows for a lot more room for the amp to fill.

You're likely right about regretting not having one after deciding on another... I think we're all afflicted with that disease here to a greater or lesser extent. You might want to consider looking at used options, too. That might allow you to sample multiple flavors within your current budget and it's usually easier to recoup more of your expenditure if you later decide to sell.

As far as reliability goes, within your list, I don't think you've got much to worry about. While it's true that some are better than others, they should all perform reliably unless you're overly abusive. Everyone builds a lemon every once in a while, but none of these companies got to where they are without having more great customer service days than terrible ones.

Anyway, I doubt any of this really makes your decision any easier, and this is all just my opinions, but I will say this. Try not to obsess too much and just pick one. Based on your list, you're not going to be terribly disappointed in any of them. I went through 7 or 8 amps until I found one that I was truly happy with (and I still have it), and I've probably been through at least 50 amps at this point. Some have stayed for awhile, some couldn't leave fast enough, but a lot of them are still around just because they all have one thing that they do better than everything else and they allow me to speak through them in a way I want to hear.

 

[4406cuda]

Thanks. All good suggestions here. The Mark V is really looking good to me right now. To be honest, I found more in common with the JP2C and the Mark V than different. I think they sound similar in many ways even though you can hear some distinct differences. The Mark V seems to be more versatile for single coil and humbucker pickups than the JP which isn't as good with single coil guitars in my opinion. I love the lead tone of the JP but there are a few great lead tones in the Mark V, so that's a hard one to decide. Some reviewers disparage the Mark IIC+ and Mark IV modes of the Mark V, but I used to have a Mark IV and it sounds pretty dang good to me. I don't miss my mark IV at all.

The Shiva 20th is a monster but my reservation is that I'm kind of an el34 guy. I played the 20th with el34 tubes and it did not have the same magic in my opinion. It's a remarkable amp though so it may be what I can always fall back on. On the Marshall side of things there is the JVM and the Dirty Shirley too. With the Dirty Shirley, it's only a minor adjustment in my playing to use my guitar volume to go from clean/dirty sounds. It's tone is so great that even though I am super impressed with the Smallbox, I cannot get my mind completely off of the Dirty Shirley. If it was a 2 channel amp then it would be so hard to pick one or the other.

The Satch JVM is not available for me to play, but I have listened intently to all of the videos and audio examples I can find and as far as I can discern, it is more capable than the JVM of better quintessential Marshall tones. In all honesty, I don't think the JVM should be abandoned though as I still find it very appealing in its own right so I cannot clearly justify the extra cost of the Satch JVM.

Lastly the Dual Rectifier since it's revision is amazing. It's like they took something off of the Roadster and put it into the reborn rectifiers so I like them very much now. There is amazing versatility in that amp so it's not like the Mark V necessarily blows it away in the versatility department. One thing about the Mark V is sometimes, not all the time, I wish it had more character like the JP. Sometimes it comes across as plain vanilla to me for whatever reason and I'll get bored of it for a few days and then it starts sounding amazing again. The rectifier never ever bores me so I think whatever it has that the Mark V doesn't makes it so attractive.

I thought getting some feedback on this would help my decision but I feel like I will regret not having another of them no matter which one I choose. Now I don't know what to do at all because time is short and I have to make a decision. My frustration level is mounting.

Lastly I want to consider things like build quality and support, but they all have good support. Even Marshall in the past has taken care of me. It seems like Bogner, Friedman, and Diezel have the superior quality, but there are a million Mesa Boogies and Marshalls that have toured the world without fail so it is unclear if there really is a such thing as superior quality past a certain level. What is the best option for starting a band? Should you buy an amp like the Smallbox that makes the best pedal platform or go with an amp that can deliver all the tones without pedals? Is there really a reliability factor at this level or are they all reliable?

By the way, I came across this awesome Dual Rectifier and I think it's so cool.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...dual-rectifier-100-watt-tube-head-blacked-out

 

[PBGas]

I would suggest to try a JP-2C as well. Great amp! What about the EVH EL-34 version?

 

[Oblivion DC]

Of the amps listed it would have to be the Dual Rectifier boosted with a Maxon od808. Drop a Zuul in the loop and you’re gonna be ready for anything.

 

[napalmdeath]

Ecstasy 101B.

What happened with the Astoria? FWIW, I'd just pick up a used JSX, and buy another guitar with the rest of the money! (Don't laugh)..

 

[Chris6870]

Go Fractal and you can have them all in one box, except the Rivera.