Why can't Mesa Boogie just admit it?

[midnightlaundry]

This morning I've decided to feel blessed that I'm so stupid I don't realize how awful my Mark V is.....

I think the greatness of the MV is that it does a lot of things very well. It is after all a progression of the earlier amps in that you get good lead, clean and in between tones in one amp without having to compromise your tone controls because each channel gets their own.

Also, you get the wattage settings, a great foot switch, a good loop. And the amp is relatively small for everything it does. It a high tech piece of gear. I think most guitar players aren't accomplished enough to utilize all of the stylistic tones that are available in the amp. But they complain that it won't do 1 tone exactly spot on compared to what they remember in their head.

 

[skoora]

I wonder if a lot of people who complain about the 2C+ mode in the V have actually played a 2C+ in person (at length, gigged or recorded with) or they maybe played just one, and of course as we know, they're all identical…...
Plus the most famous 2C+ users, Metallica, slaved them into Marshalls and used extensive outboard EQ to sculpt the sound so how much of a 2C+ tone are you even hearing? I've played a combo and a few heads and while they all sounded great I never had a "holy shit" moment of having attained some kind of grail tone. I've played some III's (variety of stripes) that were just as pleasing. I think Mesa made a mistake in naming the modes as reflections of previous models. Should have just called them Sleepy, Dopey and Grumpy…or something like that.

To be fair though I grew up on Plexi tones, Mesa I just grew to like in the last 10 years, and whenever Marshall would tout "plexi" tones out of any setting on their master volume amps I'd cry foul (after playing them) as they only got in that ballpark when they actually re-issued the plexi….
So ultimately I will aquiesce to the Mesa guys who grew up on the Mark's as to their possible disappointment in the MK V. I love mine.

 

[RJF]

I don't get the 2c+ thing, granted I've never played one in person before, but I've heard a bunch of clips of them side by side with a mk3 and 4, and I always choose the MK3 out of the bunch. I wouldn't mind having a 2c+, but I'll never pay $3K for one.

 

[anomaly]

I heard it was the transformers in those old Mark IIC+ heads that made them so special??... and those transformers are just not available anymore. They did try to get that tone down for the Mark V and even the IV before it, but it's the transformers that lend it that unique tone and feel. Most guys that have played the IIC+ and the later Marks say it's mostly a "Feel" thing with those C+ heads, and that the tone is there on the IV and V, but the feel is off. I guess they just had a punchier and more dynamic sound with a nice smooth rolled off presence...
The early Recto's have Mark III transformers, supposedly?? I guess it comes down to "Old is better" in alot of case.

 

[anomaly]

I don't get the 2c+ thing, granted I've never played one in person before, but I've heard a bunch of clips of them side by side with a mk3 and 4, and I always choose the MK3 out of the bunch. I wouldn't mind having a 2c+, but I'll never pay $3K for one.

Ya, I kinda agree. I've always preferred the more aggressive sound of the III, which seems to have a more cutting sound to it as well. The C+ is Very similar, it just has a smoother top end to it... so It's a little more "pretty" sounding. While the Mark III is very angry sounding amp, the IV kinda goes back to that smoother sound, but it's still not there as far as the feel and dynamics of the amp.

The Mark III was one of the first "brutal" sounding amps. Has a lot of gain for the time, mid to late 80's. Not many amps could sound that heavy just plugged straight in, at that time. That amp doesn't get the credit it deserves, as everyone just talks about the IIC+ or the IV.

 

[BrentSSL]

Anomaly you just made me want to try MK3
Also there is a Mark2 c++ I think hetfield had a couple maybe thats,what the Mark 3 is based on?

 

[mojotone]

Anomaly you just made me want to try MK3
Also there is a Mark2 c++ I think hetfield had a couple maybe thats,what the Mark 3 is based on?

The C++ was a modification that may have eventually morphed into the Mark III, but they are not the same amp. The Mark III is a great bang for the buck, just don't expect a TRUE three-channel amp. The shared controls really start to become a pain in the ass on that amp, even after you do the R2 Volume mod.

 

[phil b]

You can always pick up a Mark IV and find out if Mike B. is still doing the mod to it to make it sound like a Mark IIC+. We did a side by side between a modded Mark IV and a IIC+ when Boogie had a location in NY back in the day {92-93?} and it was scary how close the IV sounded to the IIC+ .

 

[CaseyCor]

I completely agree SteveK but it just makes me sad because their sound is such a big part of Metaland rock since the 80s. They haven't had a booth at Namm in years and thier amps have become entry level to high end equipment. Not that they are not trying to make good amps and not that I wouldn't use them if I couldn't get an older Dual rec. I just don't want to see my favorite amp manufacturer with so much legend and lore behind thier achievements retire before delivering one possibly more great amps.I feel like their amps would be better without this Multiwatt theme in every amp also

What?

I have BEEN at Mesa HQ, taken the tour of the manufacturing plant, and talked to their people in person. Mesa is awesome and they are not going anywhere.

Many guitar amps don't get their coveted status until long after they are out of production. Do you think early rectos had this status in 1993? No, they were just Dual Rectifiers. I'm sure 10-15 years from now something will come out that is special about the Mk4, or the Roadster, or the Mk1 Roadking, whatever..... long after they are out of production. No one cares today, because you can buy them off the shelf atm.

RJF I really like hearing your input because you are very helpful and knowledgeable I meant to delete that last post after proof reading it. I in no way was saying Mesa make bad amps or thier quality is poor its actually one of the best in the industry I work part time in a Mesa techs shop. I was trying to say that thier amps would be better if they had a tad more simplicity to thier amps. I mean peavey has not done much if anything to change the design of the 5150/6505 since it was originally made and it sounds awseome not my flavor but it is a tried and true design. To your comment about the parts not being made I get it no need to be so touchy about it lol and I agree reissues would be scrutinized this world over but they would be nice.

So, you work part time as a Mesa tech, and yet you don't know what Simu-Class is? A feature you had on the Mark V you owned, and sold because it was an "over priced bedroom amp?" Interesting.

See here - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=166178 (3rd post down)

 

[thiswaythatway]

I own a 2014 Black Out Mesa Triple Rec Multi-Watt and would put it up against any Pre500 mojo, pixie dust, hocus pocus Rev F, or whatever other cosmos BS you throw at the wall. It's one of the most brutal high gain amps I've ever played. The list of amps I've had and sold is as long as any - yet the Triple Rec stays

I agree but with the 2 exceptions. I felt the triple reborn needed some volume and a decent OD pedal to boost it, like a Tube Screamer. But give me a Triple reborn anyday for modern metal over anything.

 

[thiswaythatway]

You can always pick up a Mark IV and find out if Mike B. is still doing the mod to it to make it sound like a Mark IIC+. We did a side by side between a modded Mark IV and a IIC+ when Boogie had a location in NY back in the day {92-93?} and it was scary how close the IV sounded to the IIC+ .

Yes, the mark IV does get close to the IIC+. MUCH closer than the Mark V can get IMHO. I had a IIC+ and a Mark IV version B in the same room on the same cab and it was really close...................but the IIC+ still had that little bit of rawness to it where the IV sounded a little more hifi and refined. But fuck paying these guys 5k who are trying to cash in on hype, just get a IV and call it a day.

 

[phil b]

You can always pick up a Mark IV and find out if Mike B. is still doing the mod to it to make it sound like a Mark IIC+. We did a side by side between a modded Mark IV and a IIC+ when Boogie had a location in NY back in the day {92-93?} and it was scary how close the IV sounded to the IIC+ .

Yes, the mark IV does get close to the IIC+. MUCH closer than the Mark V can get IMHO. I had a IIC+ and a Mark IV version B in the same room on the same cab and it was really close...................but the IIC+ still had that little bit of rawness to it where the IV sounded a little more hifi and refined. But fuck paying these guys 5k who are trying to cash in on hype, just get a IV and call it a day.

Yea, I honestly think the Mark IV gets closer than the V, but I havent had enough time with the V to really give it a fair comparison. Now with the mod that Mike B did to my IV it is as close to a IIC+ that I've ever heard. I still own that amp today and it stomps on any stock Mark IV i've put it up against. It was modded to specifically sound like a IIC+ and he did 2 of them. I took delivery and decided to only keep one so Mark Snyder kept the other one. I dont think Mark still has it and I've asked J.P's tech if he had it and he doesn't, so somewhere out there there is another one. I see your in NJ too. Maybe one day if you want to check her out your more than welcome. It absolutely has that raw bite to it that the IIC+ has.

 

[mojotone]

It absolutely has that raw bite to it that the IIC+ has.

From this staement, I know that you are true to your word. There is no explaining this to someone who has only watched and heard video clips.

 

[Deleted member 13074]

The best I heard the old Rectos was when put through a 2:90 with the Deep mode selected.

Mesas of years gone by lacked ability to do more than one great sound at a time (TriAxis aside)
That's not a big deal for an old Marshall user, and may work for some, but with the amps offering other modes, it was a wee bit of a let-down.
Some were happy with the one sound, others carried multiple amps.
Not any more - the new line are testimony to Randall's tinkering and listening to what players want.
The Roadster has a forgettable name - heck, I own one, and have to look at the faceplate to remember what it's called - but it has tones up the kazoo, with the lows the old Rectos needed boosting.
4 useable channels with different voices leaves me wondering why it's a kept secret. Maybe it's that name.
I have no hankering for the old amps to be resurrected.

 

[RJF]

My only gripe with Mesa is that they won't put a MIDI chip in any of the heads. I would love to see the Roadster and Roadking have MIDI, that would make using them so much easier.

 

[kasperjensen]

My only gripe with Mesa is that they won't put a MIDI chip in any of the heads. I would love to see the Roadster and Roadking have MIDI, that would make using them so much easier.

This.

I had the Roadster, and had to have a whole RJM setup to control it. (Well, I didn't have to, but I wanted it).

That amp would be so awesome if it had MIDI.

 

[BrentSSL]

Wouldn't a Midi chip make getting a foot controller more expensive?

 

[RJF]

Wouldn't a Midi chip make getting a foot controller more expensive?

You don't already own a MIDI floorboard...and you call yourself an electric guitar player?!?

Yes it would. But, if a Roadking had a midi chip, you could plug your favorite midi floor board strait into it. Mine would be a Ground Control Pro. Now I can save and control all the the functions of the amp to a patch on my Ground Control. I could, set patch 1 for the clean ch with reverb on, and 6L6's. Patch two reverb off, EL34's for an overdriven raw drive, patch 3 ch2 reverb on 6l6's for a nice overdriven chording patch. Patch 4 ch3 full on metal no reverb with El34's, patch 5 ch4 with reverb 6L6's and the 2nd master engaged..... and so on and so on.

Then, you could add a rack effect processor in the midi chain or a midi switching system with your favorite pedals, all midi on and off. Now you are building a real rig that is surprisingly simple with nearly endless combos of effects, channels, etc.

Get it?

 

[CaseyCor]

Didn't Mesa recently hire someone who's known for MIDI stuff? I recall reading something about that here at RT a few weeks ago....hopefully that means we'll see MIDI equipped stuff soon. I still can't believe the Road King isn't MIDI compatible. There are far too many toggles on that amp to not have MIDI control.

 

[BrentSSL]

Honestly the Markv would be sweet with midi even though I wasn't in love that amp being able to activate all those modes like an Engl or a Bogner Ecstasy would be sweet.