Why do most newer Marshalls suck?

[Devilinside]

Because they are tone deaf. They could clean up simply by buying some modded Marshalls, copy the mods and put out an amp. Could you imagine if they put out a Jose amp? They would sell like hotcakes...but probably destroy sales on their other crap

Other than 4-5 builders every other johnnie come lately mod guy would be out of business.

Take both the SLP and 800x and throw the Jose in there with some better iron and done.

How true. Make 2 or 3 different models... one Jose, one cathode follower gain stage, different voicings, and keep the same classic Marshall look. Maybe add a solo MV...and a GOOD loop. It is all so simple, yet it goes un-noticed. The could easily charge more as well.

This would not work because it would still say Marshall, and not Fortin,Cameron, etc....
In other words still not boutique enough like the other guys doing mods!!

 

[Digital Jams]

Because they are tone deaf. They could clean up simply by buying some modded Marshalls, copy the mods and put out an amp. Could you imagine if they put out a Jose amp? They would sell like hotcakes...but probably destroy sales on their other crap

Other than 4-5 builders every other johnnie come lately mod guy would be out of business.

Take both the SLP and 800x and throw the Jose in there with some better iron and done.

How true. Make 2 or 3 different models... one Jose, one cathode follower gain stage, different voicings, and keep the same classic Marshall look. Maybe add a solo MV...and a GOOD loop. It is all so simple, yet it goes un-noticed. The could easily charge more as well.

This would not work because it would still say Marshall, and not Fortin,Cameron, etc....
In other words still not boutique enough like the other guys doing mods!!

I disagree with this, if Marshall was doing this there would be no need for buying used older marshalls and sending them out to be modded. Has nothing to do with boutique, my Fortin SLP is far from boutique as it is still a production amp with the inferior trannies. My Cali was well liked but in the upper volume universe Mike's production amps just kept going as my SLP started to lose it.....I am talking retarded volume levels.

The VM is also a very good amp, let's hear a professional playing one.......

 

[locoed]

I wanna know why they haven't tapped Friedman or Fortin for a high
gain recipe,sales would be better if they put a high gain amp out.
Even for respect reasons.
Buncha ho's!

 

[Lead_sound]

Because they are tone deaf. They could clean up simply by buying some modded Marshalls, copy the mods and put out an amp. Could you imagine if they put out a Jose amp? They would sell like hotcakes...but probably destroy sales on their other crap

Other than 4-5 builders every other johnnie come lately mod guy would be out of business.

Take both the SLP and 800x and throw the Jose in there with some better iron and done.

How true. Make 2 or 3 different models... one Jose, one cathode follower gain stage, different voicings, and keep the same classic Marshall look. Maybe add a solo MV...and a GOOD loop. It is all so simple, yet it goes un-noticed. The could easily charge more as well.

This would not work because it would still say Marshall, and not Fortin,Cameron, etc....
In other words still not boutique enough like the other guys doing mods!!

I disagree with this, if Marshall was doing this there would be no need for buying used older marshalls and sending them out to be modded. Has nothing to do with boutique, my Fortin SLP is far from boutique as it is still a production amp with the inferior trannies. My Cali was well liked but in the upper volume universe Mike's production amps just kept going as my SLP started to lose it.....I am talking retarded volume levels.

The VM is also a very good amp, let's hear a professional playing one.......

Sounds really good

 

[Tawlks]

1959SLP Reissue, 1987x, JTM45 reissue, Vintage Modern, HW series and the new AFD. KILLER amps!

Yes, hey are based on old designs but they are new production models and they are all incredible.

Well, I really meant newly designed amps, but surely what you're saying proves that they have what it takes to make good amps and just... don't...

 

[Blackie08]

They are more concerned about selling amps than putting out an actual good product. The JVM used to interest me, but then I played it side by side with Quickrod through a 1960 cab with greenbacks...... holy crap did the Splawn absolutely destroy it in every way possible. JVM sounded like a fizzy toy....

 

[Tawlks]

Because they are tone deaf. They could clean up simply by buying some modded Marshalls, copy the mods and put out an amp. Could you imagine if they put out a Jose amp? They would sell like hotcakes...but probably destroy sales on their other crap

Other than 4-5 builders every other johnnie come lately mod guy would be out of business.

Take both the SLP and 800x and throw the Jose in there with some better iron and done.

How true. Make 2 or 3 different models... one Jose, one cathode follower gain stage, different voicings, and keep the same classic Marshall look. Maybe add a solo MV...and a GOOD loop. It is all so simple, yet it goes un-noticed. The could easily charge more as well.

This would not work because it would still say Marshall, and not Fortin,Cameron, etc....
In other words still not boutique enough like the other guys doing mods!!

It would, IMO. Boutique stuff stands alone because of it's quality, dosn't need a big name for lots of guys like us, the players who drop big $$$ on amps to buy it.

(Well, not me, I'm still a novice player. )

 

[Heritage Softail]

They are more concerned about selling amps than putting out an actual good product. The JVM used to interest me, but then I played it side by side with Quickrod through a 1960 cab with greenbacks...... holy crap did the Splawn absolutely destroy it in every way possible. JVM sounded like a fizzy toy....

+1

Quickrod is a current production marshall killer. If GC carried the entire Splawn lineup, including Nitro, they would rarely sell a marshall. Well, except at price based sales, def not tone based.

 

[Tawlks]

They are more concerned about selling amps than putting out an actual good product. The JVM used to interest me, but then I played it side by side with Quickrod through a 1960 cab with greenbacks...... holy crap did the Splawn absolutely destroy it in every way possible. JVM sounded like a fizzy toy....

+1

Quickrod is a current production marshall killer. If GC carried the entire Splawn lineup, including Nitro, they would rarely sell a marshall. Well, except at price based sales, def not tone based.

How much does a Quickrod go for?

 

[Mudder]

I think "most new Marshalls" suck because most new Marshalls are solid state, digital, loaded with on board effects, and made in China. Notice the ones that do sound good, JVM, Vintage Modern, Class 5, and the handwired series are just that, hand wired or made in England out of the right parts. Notice that, barring the Class 5, you're also paying for it. A new JVM410 runs over $2k. For that kind of money you can go get a new Splawn, build a Metro, or buy and mod a classic Marshall.

Marshall still makes some good amps, for a price.

 

[Blackie08]

They are more concerned about selling amps than putting out an actual good product. The JVM used to interest me, but then I played it side by side with Quickrod through a 1960 cab with greenbacks...... holy crap did the Splawn absolutely destroy it in every way possible. JVM sounded like a fizzy toy....

+1

Quickrod is a current production marshall killer. If GC carried the entire Splawn lineup, including Nitro, they would rarely sell a marshall. Well, except at price based sales, def not tone based.

How much does a Quickrod go for?

$1850 and you can get it in any tolex and headshell you want..... as opposed to 2200+ for teh JVM. Shit, you could buy a Quickrod and a matching Splawn 2x12 cab for the price of a JVM.

http://splawnguitars.com/amps08.htm

I played the new Quickrod (2010 model) with the new clean channel and loop master, great low vol tones. But holy shit when that thing is cooking, It will take out any Marshall, modded or stock. Insane Splawn GAS now

 

[racerevlon]

Ok, so I'll weigh in.

I think what most of the people have said so far is mostly correct. The main reason for Marshall's "Diversification" into JMD and MA is price point and competition. Marshall is having a hard time competing with Line6, etc. in the lower-price-range. Your average buyer will take a Line6 over a Marshall MG on sound/price unless they're just buying name. AND... they're ignoring all the great things all the modders are out there doing. I think most players would pay $300 more for a KILLER sounding JVM with MM/Heyboer transformers instead of the current product. You go cheap, you get cheap, you sound cheap. Simple.

As far as the higher end, it's component-based. You can take a JVM and put a set of Heyboer or MM transformers in it and improve the sound tremendously. Upgrade some capacitors here, resistors there, and now it sounds like you want (and you've just become a "modder").

Most people equate the "downfall" of the great Marshall tone with the switch to Chinese transformers around the Mid-JCM900 era. I look at the OT in my Hughes & Kettner TriAmp MK II in relation to the OT in my JVM410H and the H & K is about 150% the size of the JVM. (No replacement for displacement?)

Regarding the HAZE 40, I believe it's the most misunderstood amp out there right now. I'm doing an official gear review on one including a head-to-head with the DSL401 at the moment (I'll post the link when it's completed). The Marshall HAZE 40 is intended to capture the 70's tone. More importantly, it is NOT a high-gain amp. It'll do crunch at best, and some of the best crunch is actually achieved by diming the Normal channel. Don't slam an amp for not being something it was never intended to be. You don't slam a JC-120 because you can't plug straight in and play Slayer. I think the thing that throws people about the HAZE 40 is the tube complement--just because it is a Marshall and has three ECC83's and two EL34's that doesn't make it a Plexi. The tone on the HAZE 40 is there--it's got good tone, but it's not a Metal amp. Also, inevitably, the digital FX section is going to color the tone as well. I'd expect to see some HAZE mods emerging over the next several months. If the HAZE 40 had gain on tap, it'd be close to the perfect little gigging combo. Good effects, but not over the top, plenty of tone, and plenty of gain. However, that would change the intent of the amp. If you want more gain out of a HAZE, throw a pedal in front (just like you do with every other amp that you feel needs it).

Bottom line, unless Marshall pulls its head out of the sand, realizes it's losing the tone wars, and makes the necessary adjustments, they won't be around too much longer. When you can purchase a Splawn QuickRod for $1850, there's no reason to buy a Marshall JVM2 at $1499 ($1599 if you buy the "shrouded in mystery" JVM210HCF model, whatever the "CF" designates).

Cheers,

 

[tonmazz]

I hope they don't catch on!! What fun would that be to go to GC and actually find something nice that sounds good. It would ruin the fun!! They attempted something like that with the 2205/2210s adding diode clipping and the 900SLX with the extra gain stage but they did it halfway. The 2205/2210s were as close as they ever got to getting it but even they tend to be a bit thin. Add some minor tweaks to the recipe and you have it IMO. Great gain channel with a nice clean...done!! Oh and nice transformers are key to the feel of the older amps.

 

[Rev]

They are more concerned about selling amps than putting out an actual good product. The JVM used to interest me, but then I played it side by side with Quickrod through a 1960 cab with greenbacks...... holy crap did the Splawn absolutely destroy it in every way possible. JVM sounded like a fizzy toy....

+1

Quickrod is a current production marshall killer. If GC carried the entire Splawn lineup, including Nitro, they would rarely sell a marshall. Well, except at price based sales, def not tone based.

How much does a Quickrod go for?

$1850 and you can get it in any tolex and headshell you want..... as opposed to 2200+ for teh JVM. Shit, you could buy a Quickrod and a matching Splawn 2x12 cab for the price of a JVM.

http://splawnguitars.com/amps08.htm

I played the new Quickrod (2010 model) with the new clean channel and loop master, great low vol tones. But holy shit when that thing is cooking, It will take out any Marshall, modded or stock. Insane Splawn GAS now

I have some major QR gas right now!

 

[dfrattaroli]

Discuss. Marshall seem to have come out with alot of crap lately.

Because the internet said so

Winner.

 

[HeimBrent]

Something just struck me... The AFD. They gotta learn something from that project? They've done a bunch of signatureamps, and now they are copying THE Marshall-tone, in my not so very humble opinion, off all times... For sure they'll take some of the things they learn from that project and use it in their next new ampdesign?

 

[Badronald]

Oh, and my JCM800 2203x (Reissue) sounds KILLER.

Yes, it's based on an old design, but they're currently making amps that sound GREAT.

 

[ttosh]

I am so ready for Gilberts new CD, I have been wearing out Get out of my Yard and Silence followed by a deafening roar. Paul is holding a clinic in Independence MO this month. I am trying to get tickets to see him, he is one of my all time favorites!!

Because they are tone deaf. They could clean up simply by buying some modded Marshalls, copy the mods and put out an amp. Could you imagine if they put out a Jose amp? They would sell like hotcakes...but probably destroy sales on their other crap

Other than 4-5 builders every other johnnie come lately mod guy would be out of business.

Take both the SLP and 800x and throw the Jose in there with some better iron and done.

How true. Make 2 or 3 different models... one Jose, one cathode follower gain stage, different voicings, and keep the same classic Marshall look. Maybe add a solo MV...and a GOOD loop. It is all so simple, yet it goes un-noticed. The could easily charge more as well.

This would not work because it would still say Marshall, and not Fortin,Cameron, etc....
In other words still not boutique enough like the other guys doing mods!!

I disagree with this, if Marshall was doing this there would be no need for buying used older marshalls and sending them out to be modded. Has nothing to do with boutique, my Fortin SLP is far from boutique as it is still a production amp with the inferior trannies. My Cali was well liked but in the upper volume universe Mike's production amps just kept going as my SLP started to lose it.....I am talking retarded volume levels.

The VM is also a very good amp, let's hear a professional playing one.......

 

[Tawlks]

Ok, so I'll weigh in.

I think what most of the people have said so far is mostly correct. The main reason for Marshall's "Diversification" into JMD and MA is price point and competition. Marshall is having a hard time competing with Line6, etc. in the lower-price-range. Your average buyer will take a Line6 over a Marshall MG on sound/price unless they're just buying name. AND... they're ignoring all the great things all the modders are out there doing. I think most players would pay $300 more for a KILLER sounding JVM with MM/Heyboer transformers instead of the current product. You go cheap, you get cheap, you sound cheap. Simple.

As far as the higher end, it's component-based. You can take a JVM and put a set of Heyboer or MM transformers in it and improve the sound tremendously. Upgrade some capacitors here, resistors there, and now it sounds like you want (and you've just become a "modder").

Most people equate the "downfall" of the great Marshall tone with the switch to Chinese transformers around the Mid-JCM900 era. I look at the OT in my Hughes & Kettner TriAmp MK II in relation to the OT in my JVM410H and the H & K is about 150% the size of the JVM. (No replacement for displacement?)

Regarding the HAZE 40, I believe it's the most misunderstood amp out there right now. I'm doing an official gear review on one including a head-to-head with the DSL401 at the moment (I'll post the link when it's completed). The Marshall HAZE 40 is intended to capture the 70's tone. More importantly, it is NOT a high-gain amp. It'll do crunch at best, and some of the best crunch is actually achieved by diming the Normal channel. Don't slam an amp for not being something it was never intended to be. You don't slam a JC-120 because you can't plug straight in and play Slayer. I think the thing that throws people about the HAZE 40 is the tube complement--just because it is a Marshall and has three ECC83's and two EL34's that doesn't make it a Plexi. The tone on the HAZE 40 is there--it's got good tone, but it's not a Metal amp. Also, inevitably, the digital FX section is going to color the tone as well. I'd expect to see some HAZE mods emerging over the next several months. If the HAZE 40 had gain on tap, it'd be close to the perfect little gigging combo. Good effects, but not over the top, plenty of tone, and plenty of gain. However, that would change the intent of the amp. If you want more gain out of a HAZE, throw a pedal in front (just like you do with every other amp that you feel needs it).

Bottom line, unless Marshall pulls its head out of the sand, realizes it's losing the tone wars, and makes the necessary adjustments, they won't be around too much longer. When you can purchase a Splawn QuickRod for $1850, there's no reason to buy a Marshall JVM2 at $1499 ($1599 if you buy the "shrouded in mystery" JVM210HCF model, whatever the "CF" designates).

Cheers,

I agree with all of that. But i think the company sucking or not is down to it's products, which oculd be improved, like you said, easily with transformers and caps etc etc.

However, though I do play metal a fair bit, I wasn't expecting the Haze 40 to be a metal amp, when I saw "Haze" I thought "Purple Haze... Hendrix, okay, '70s rock crunch, cool". I was dissapointed. I tried setting it up for a modern tone, but it wouldn't go there, that's a thing I do with all amps, how are you supposed to know the amp's capability if you don't test the boundries.

I'd need to take it home, boost it and play it through my cab to fully know. But in Dawsons when I played it, at fair volume, it sucked... Just my opinion.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

The real reason is because 99% of non-pro players simply don't know any better.

Marshall has become a company for profit more than it is about great amps. Cut this, save that, etc.

We're spoiled here because there is so much info available about great builders. Marshall relies on it's past history and name recognition. And when you get the latest greatest bands to put up walls of Marshall's in front of the amps they have hidden behind them that they're really rocking, you get a general public who thinks all those great tones can only come from a Marshall. Even if they are using the heads that are out front, doesn't mean they're stock. Really doesn't mean they're Marshall's either, no matter what the head shell says.

A friend of mine blew up his Marshall, don't member the exact model because I really didn't care, but I think it was a Dual Super Lead. But what ever it was, they don't take falls very well. He asked if I could help with an amp for a gig while it was being repaired. I said sure. I gave him a quick run down of the amps I have and he said for me to bring my favorite. It's fun to hear your own gear being played by somebody else, that way you can truly hear how it sounds to the audience. I set him up with the Uberschall, my MXR Carbon Copy in the loop for a little delay and my AnalogMan Bi-Chorus on the floor (he has some kind of crappy "Fab" chorus that he hates). I warned him and the band that this would be a "band altering" experience!!! I know that amp very well and how to dial it in. We both use EMG 81/85 pups 99% of the time. That made it easy for me, just used my normal settings. He picked one of his LTD Deluxe LP's w/EMG's, plugged in, clicked to the clean channel, and strummed a chord. Well after repeatedly picking his jaw up off of the floor, he said that was the clean tone he has been looking for (and that was without the chorus on). He did use the chorus here and there, but said he loved the straight tone so much he could do without the chorus (didn't use it much at all for the gig). But once he stepped on the gain channel, it was on, his jaw hit the floor and stayed there. Not only did he freak on it, but so did the rest of the band and the sound guy! It's fun to watch a guitarist who just got the crap slapped out of him by great tone!! He was on fire the whole night!! I've seen him and the band play many times, but never like that!! He went for broke that night. The entire band thanked me many times over afterwards. He told me "I'm sorry I threw money at my Marshall for repairs, it should have been rocks!" LOL. The next day he told me he immediately went home from the show and started searching the 'net for one. Yeah, it's that good of an amp. And he's a "Marshall" guy. A "Marshall" guy who just lost faith in his Marshall.