cujo
Active member
that new jmd1 is so bad sounding... I guess if you never heard a good marshall or splawn or whatever then you have nothing to compare it too.... however my kerry king head is awesome!!
T
Tawlks
New member
So... :S It seems all the good Marshalls are re-issues or old Marshalls?
symbolic253
New member
its all about the money thats why marshalls/fender/gibson fucking sucks now
B
Blackie08
New member
quinnethan":t2utkgl4 said:Blackie08":t2utkgl4 said:Tawlks":t2utkgl4 said:
$1850 and you can get it in any tolex and headshell you want..... as opposed to 2200+ for teh JVM. Shit, you could buy a Quickrod and a matching Splawn 2x12 cab for the price of a JVM.
http://splawnguitars.com/amps08.htm
I played the new Quickrod (2010 model) with the new clean channel and loop master, great low vol tones. But holy shit when that thing is cooking, It will take out any Marshall, modded or stock. Insane Splawn GAS now
I have some major QR gas right now!
Me too dude. So bad right now.... That Quickrod was the sound that I have had in my head for ever. I nailed Eddies tone on the Beat it Solo, Lynch on Back for The Attack.... I was in 80's Metal heaven! Clean channel was better than expected also....
M
mikey
Active member
This. I have been told how great my "Marshall" sounds a couple times. ...It's a Marshall 4x12 with an SLO sitting on top.Death by Uberschall":kdvwjdm3 said:The real reason is because 99% of non-pro players simply don't know any better.
Marshall has become a company for profit more than it is about great amps. Cut this, save that, etc.
We're spoiled here because there is so much info available about great builders. Marshall relies on it's past history and name recognition. And when you get the latest greatest bands to put up walls of Marshall's in front of the amps they have hidden behind them that they're really rocking, you get a general public who thinks all those great tones can only come from a Marshall. Even if they are using the heads that are out front, doesn't mean they're stock. Really doesn't mean they're Marshall's either, no matter what the head shell says.
T
Tawlks
New member
mikey":1nvhqcji said:This. I have been told how great my "Marshall" sounds a couple times. ...It's a Marshall 4x12 with an SLO sitting on top.Death by Uberschall":1nvhqcji said:The real reason is because 99% of non-pro players simply don't know any better.
Marshall has become a company for profit more than it is about great amps. Cut this, save that, etc.
We're spoiled here because there is so much info available about great builders. Marshall relies on it's past history and name recognition. And when you get the latest greatest bands to put up walls of Marshall's in front of the amps they have hidden behind them that they're really rocking, you get a general public who thinks all those great tones can only come from a Marshall. Even if they are using the heads that are out front, doesn't mean they're stock. Really doesn't mean they're Marshall's either, no matter what the head shell says.
NITROHOLIC
New member
because theyre marshalls
Death by Uberschall
Active member
The Marshall's of late have been great stepping stones for other builders/modders to steal Marshall's glory. That's where Scott Splawn came from. I remember him modding Marshall amps years ago, long before he started building amps.
blackba
Well-known member
There seems to be 4 camps of people:
1. Those who think all marshall's suck
2. Those who think the only good Marshall amps were made before around 1980
3. Those who think the only good Marshall amps were made before around 1990
4. Those who think all Marshalls both new and old have good things to offer
Marshall is production amp company, not a boutique builder (though they do have a few handwired amps). I think the reason alot of people don't like new Marshalls is that the cheap components they use today are just not as good as the cheap components they used in the past. Also, Marshall for the most part is trying to move forward, creating multichannel amps. If you are a fan of a single channel NMV amp, than a channel switching amp just won't do. My biggest complaint with some of the new Marshalls like the DSL and JVM is that they left out a choke. The Marshall Class5 sure looks like a cool little amp.
I see Fender as in the same boat as Marshall. They are both haunted by their past. If they try to move forward, they lose the old fans, who want a copy of a late 60's amp. If they just build reissues, people would say they are just resting on their laurels.
Look at the DSL, vintage modern, and JVM, they are frequently compared to a JCM800 or JMP. I think the comparison is unavoidable.
1. Those who think all marshall's suck
2. Those who think the only good Marshall amps were made before around 1980
3. Those who think the only good Marshall amps were made before around 1990
4. Those who think all Marshalls both new and old have good things to offer
Marshall is production amp company, not a boutique builder (though they do have a few handwired amps). I think the reason alot of people don't like new Marshalls is that the cheap components they use today are just not as good as the cheap components they used in the past. Also, Marshall for the most part is trying to move forward, creating multichannel amps. If you are a fan of a single channel NMV amp, than a channel switching amp just won't do. My biggest complaint with some of the new Marshalls like the DSL and JVM is that they left out a choke. The Marshall Class5 sure looks like a cool little amp.
I see Fender as in the same boat as Marshall. They are both haunted by their past. If they try to move forward, they lose the old fans, who want a copy of a late 60's amp. If they just build reissues, people would say they are just resting on their laurels.
Look at the DSL, vintage modern, and JVM, they are frequently compared to a JCM800 or JMP. I think the comparison is unavoidable.
jabps
Well-known member
Man...I've been hearing about the death of Marshall for 20+ years now. Weird that they're still the most common seen backline still on concert stages.
Trust me, nobody railed more about or against Marshall than me in times past and even now...though my very first amp was a 50watt JMP 2x12 combo and my second a 70's JMP 50 watt MV head and my 3rd, a 100 watt Super Lead. So yeah I figure I have a good ear for they're amps.
First it was the wave of power amps and midi programmable pre-amps that would destroy them. Then the first wave of the boutique builders, then Boogie & Peavey's of the world, then the 2nd wave of boutique builders and so on and so on. All the while Marshall is still ticking.
I'm not here to defend Marshall but for every guy that says his Quickrod blows a JVM away well, there's gonna be someone like me that says, no it doesn't. And yeah, I've owned both. So who's right, who's wrong...nobody, it's all opinion.
Just think somebody else will be predicting the death of Marshall in another 10 years all the while Marshall just keeps flooding stages and depositing money in the bank.
Quick example/test...what's cooler? Marshall or Bogner? Yet for some reason I've yet to find one Bogner amp that I think sounds worth the coin. I'm constantly told that a Bogner 4x12 has no equal yet every time I've played one in the studio/live I hear nothing that suggests it sounds that much better than my beater 4x12. And like many on here, I've always gotten compliments on my tone...what gives? Am I automatically supposed to like Bogner just because it's a Bogner?
Hey who knows, maybe Marshall will design a boutique killer in the future...chances are, even if they did there'd still be someone bitching about something because let's face it...it's more fashionable to complain about something that's popular as say something that's under the radar so to speak. Funny stuff.
Trust me, nobody railed more about or against Marshall than me in times past and even now...though my very first amp was a 50watt JMP 2x12 combo and my second a 70's JMP 50 watt MV head and my 3rd, a 100 watt Super Lead. So yeah I figure I have a good ear for they're amps.
First it was the wave of power amps and midi programmable pre-amps that would destroy them. Then the first wave of the boutique builders, then Boogie & Peavey's of the world, then the 2nd wave of boutique builders and so on and so on. All the while Marshall is still ticking.
I'm not here to defend Marshall but for every guy that says his Quickrod blows a JVM away well, there's gonna be someone like me that says, no it doesn't. And yeah, I've owned both. So who's right, who's wrong...nobody, it's all opinion.
Just think somebody else will be predicting the death of Marshall in another 10 years all the while Marshall just keeps flooding stages and depositing money in the bank.
Quick example/test...what's cooler? Marshall or Bogner? Yet for some reason I've yet to find one Bogner amp that I think sounds worth the coin. I'm constantly told that a Bogner 4x12 has no equal yet every time I've played one in the studio/live I hear nothing that suggests it sounds that much better than my beater 4x12. And like many on here, I've always gotten compliments on my tone...what gives? Am I automatically supposed to like Bogner just because it's a Bogner?
Hey who knows, maybe Marshall will design a boutique killer in the future...chances are, even if they did there'd still be someone bitching about something because let's face it...it's more fashionable to complain about something that's popular as say something that's under the radar so to speak. Funny stuff.
skoora
Well-known member
I don't think it's cheap components necessarily. I just think for a long time whoever the chief designers/engineers have been have had a lousy ear for the final product. I can't believe the components in the Chinese Voxes are all that high end but those amps blow a newer Marshall's doors off for a good vintage and hard rock tone, and I'm a long time Marshall guy. I would take a handwired 15/30 Vox head and a pedal any day over a VM or DSL or JVM. I also don't believe the components in the 6505's etc are all that amazing but it comes down to circuit design and those are a great sounding amp too. Except in maybe a few key places a picofarad is a picofarad is a picofarad. Iron, that's another story.
Marshall's could sound awesome with how they make them now. They just don't have the "Marshall" ear for it anymore.
Marshall's could sound awesome with how they make them now. They just don't have the "Marshall" ear for it anymore.
70strathead
New member
Marshall's are not meant to be boutique, but i think they've tried to get into the market of modern amp building when IMO is not their strength. they own the defnitive rock n roll sound. The reissue plexi's and super leads ( especially from the 90's) sound great to my ears just stock with a good pedal. They do good at keeping it simple, one channel and leave it up the player to define his or her sound. thats what makes there products special, like Fender guitars which i think people are high if they think the quality is bad, you just have to look in the right direction know what your getting. Fender Custom shop guitars are amazing and so are some signature series.. the prices ae ridiculous though for both companies, Im surprised they havent put a reissue for the Master Volume JMPs form the 70's.
D
diagrammatiks
New member
quick thought regarding transformers, I'm pretty sure the transformer in the caa od1000se+ plexi revision weighs more then an entire jvm...
but that's neither here nor there.
The thing with the boutique market is that they are based on the reputation of individual builders and engineers who are judged by the amps they design and the support they give.
Marshall really isn't like that at all. It's a completely different corporate/market dynamic. I think though that with the new wave of lower priced valve heads coming into the market, marshall will do something to compete at that level. For a while, the line6 spiders and the mg's were the budget game. There wasn't a lot you could do with 400-500 dollars. That's beginning to change right now in a big way.
The other problem is that once you get into the Marshall heads that do sound good, specifically the reissues, it suddenly becomes a real hard market to play. That new reissue amp is competing against used vintage amps, new clone amps, boutique inspired by amps, etc etc. Most of the people that do have enough money to say buy a new jcm800 reissue are gonna look at all the available options unless they are buying for brand alone. At that point, splawn, germino, fargen, roccaforte, etc etc make the competition really really stiff.
I think from a corporate point of view it just makes sense to make and advertise their lower priced or snazzier tech infused options rather then their pricey heritage stuff.
but that's neither here nor there.
The thing with the boutique market is that they are based on the reputation of individual builders and engineers who are judged by the amps they design and the support they give.
Marshall really isn't like that at all. It's a completely different corporate/market dynamic. I think though that with the new wave of lower priced valve heads coming into the market, marshall will do something to compete at that level. For a while, the line6 spiders and the mg's were the budget game. There wasn't a lot you could do with 400-500 dollars. That's beginning to change right now in a big way.
The other problem is that once you get into the Marshall heads that do sound good, specifically the reissues, it suddenly becomes a real hard market to play. That new reissue amp is competing against used vintage amps, new clone amps, boutique inspired by amps, etc etc. Most of the people that do have enough money to say buy a new jcm800 reissue are gonna look at all the available options unless they are buying for brand alone. At that point, splawn, germino, fargen, roccaforte, etc etc make the competition really really stiff.
I think from a corporate point of view it just makes sense to make and advertise their lower priced or snazzier tech infused options rather then their pricey heritage stuff.
stephen sawall
SEMI ERECT MEMBER
With out read this thread I can say pretty easy why ..... They are about making money .... not great amps.
I was talking with Mike Soldano about this very subject. He said the prototype for even the cheapest amps by most makers almost always sound great. By the time it is redesigned for mass production and the tolerances of parts and lack of quality control and inspection of the final product, etc ......
I was talking with Mike Soldano about this very subject. He said the prototype for even the cheapest amps by most makers almost always sound great. By the time it is redesigned for mass production and the tolerances of parts and lack of quality control and inspection of the final product, etc ......
T
Tawlks
New member
blackba":1fd0ymtk said:There seems to be 4 camps of people:
1. Those who think all marshall's suck
2. Those who think the only good Marshall amps were made before around 1980
3. Those who think the only good Marshall amps were made before around 1990
4. Those who think all Marshalls both new and old have good things to offer
Marshall is production amp company, not a boutique builder (though they do have a few handwired amps). I think the reason alot of people don't like new Marshalls is that the cheap components they use today are just not as good as the cheap components they used in the past. Also, Marshall for the most part is trying to move forward, creating multichannel amps. If you are a fan of a single channel NMV amp, than a channel switching amp just won't do. My biggest complaint with some of the new Marshalls like the DSL and JVM is that they left out a choke. The Marshall Class5 sure looks like a cool little amp.
I see Fender as in the same boat as Marshall. They are both haunted by their past. If they try to move forward, they lose the old fans, who want a copy of a late 60's amp. If they just build reissues, people would say they are just resting on their laurels.
Look at the DSL, vintage modern, and JVM, they are frequently compared to a JCM800 or JMP. I think the comparison is unavoidable.
I agree with this. It's a bit like Gibson, they try and make innovative stuff but it all sucks, the die hard fans want re-issues of 50 year old guitars, the guys like us just buy them and chuck the pickups and stuff anyway. They live off their name and their legacy, not their product. I tell this to everyone who thinks about buying a Gibson and they reply with "But Gibson are the best guitar makers in the world" and I'll say "Well, i'm sure Suhr, Anderson, PRS, Caparison, ESP and the likes are worth considering, quite a few of them are cheaper as well"
So, Marshall users these days...
Slash - Mods them
Dave Mustaine - will endourse fucking anything.
Billie Joe Armstrong - mods them
The guy from Bowling For Soup - He's in fucking Bowling For Soup
Zakk Wylde - has shit tone IMO.
H
Heritage Softail
New member
Tawlks":n9batc4c said:blackba":n9batc4c said:There seems to be 4 camps of people:
1. Those who think all marshall's suck
2. Those who think the only good Marshall amps were made before around 1980
3. Those who think the only good Marshall amps were made before around 1990
4. Those who think all Marshalls both new and old have good things to offer
Marshall is production amp company, not a boutique builder (though they do have a few handwired amps). I think the reason alot of people don't like new Marshalls is that the cheap components they use today are just not as good as the cheap components they used in the past. Also, Marshall for the most part is trying to move forward, creating multichannel amps. If you are a fan of a single channel NMV amp, than a channel switching amp just won't do. My biggest complaint with some of the new Marshalls like the DSL and JVM is that they left out a choke. The Marshall Class5 sure looks like a cool little amp.
I see Fender as in the same boat as Marshall. They are both haunted by their past. If they try to move forward, they lose the old fans, who want a copy of a late 60's amp. If they just build reissues, people would say they are just resting on their laurels.
Look at the DSL, vintage modern, and JVM, they are frequently compared to a JCM800 or JMP. I think the comparison is unavoidable.
I agree with this. It's a bit like Gibson, they try and make innovative stuff but it all sucks, the die hard fans want re-issues of 50 year old guitars, the guys like us just buy them and chuck the pickups and stuff anyway. They live off their name and their legacy, not their product. I tell this to everyone who thinks about buying a Gibson and they reply with "But Gibson are the best guitar makers in the world" and I'll say "Well, i'm sure Suhr, Anderson, PRS, Caparison, ESP and the likes are worth considering, quite a few of them are cheaper as well"
So, Marshall users these days...
Slash - Mods them
Dave Mustaine - will endourse fucking anything.
Billie Joe Armstrong - mods them
The guy from Bowling For Soup - He's in fucking Bowling For Soup
Zakk Wylde - has shit tone IMO.
Zakk had pretty good tone in "No More Tears". If your shit only sounded that good.
jabps
Well-known member
And yet Tawlks Gibson still keeps cranking guitars out...why? Because they freakin sell. Regardless of "who" buys them they still continue to sell. No different than Marshall.Tawlks":20ui063v said:blackba":20ui063v said:There seems to be 4 camps of people:
1. Those who think all marshall's suck
2. Those who think the only good Marshall amps were made before around 1980
3. Those who think the only good Marshall amps were made before around 1990
4. Those who think all Marshalls both new and old have good things to offer
Marshall is production amp company, not a boutique builder (though they do have a few handwired amps). I think the reason alot of people don't like new Marshalls is that the cheap components they use today are just not as good as the cheap components they used in the past. Also, Marshall for the most part is trying to move forward, creating multichannel amps. If you are a fan of a single channel NMV amp, than a channel switching amp just won't do. My biggest complaint with some of the new Marshalls like the DSL and JVM is that they left out a choke. The Marshall Class5 sure looks like a cool little amp.
I see Fender as in the same boat as Marshall. They are both haunted by their past. If they try to move forward, they lose the old fans, who want a copy of a late 60's amp. If they just build reissues, people would say they are just resting on their laurels.
Look at the DSL, vintage modern, and JVM, they are frequently compared to a JCM800 or JMP. I think the comparison is unavoidable.
I agree with this. It's a bit like Gibson, they try and make innovative stuff but it all sucks, the die hard fans want re-issues of 50 year old guitars, the guys like us just buy them and chuck the pickups and stuff anyway. They live off their name and their legacy, not their product. I tell this to everyone who thinks about buying a Gibson and they reply with "But Gibson are the best guitar makers in the world" and I'll say "Well, i'm sure Suhr, Anderson, PRS, Caparison, ESP and the likes are worth considering, quite a few of them are cheaper as well"
So, Marshall users these days...
Slash - Mods them
Dave Mustaine - will endourse fucking anything.
Billie Joe Armstrong - mods them
The guy from Bowling For Soup - He's in fucking Bowling For Soup
Zakk Wylde - has shit tone IMO.
And why shouldn't Gibson continue to live off they're "past" history...afterall they created it and there's still a massive demand for it.
Look, you and alot of people have got to get past the fact that just because something is popular or mass produced doesn't mean it sucks. I guess I've just been through that phase of my life were if it said Marshall or Gibson it automatically sucked. What you and some on here are saying is nothing new...me an my friends were saying this crap 10, 15 years ago. Guess what, we were wrong. The funny thing is I look back on all the money I've spent on crap...from Splawn to Boogie, from VHT to Soldano, from Deizel to Mojave, from ESP to Anderson and some of the products that have made me the happiest are supposedly mass produced shit...like my old 5150's, like my Les Pauls or my JVM.
Hey no doubt Gibson and Marshall make alot of crap...but they also make alot of good stuff as well.
headlessdeadguy
Well-known member
After 25+ years and a mess of amps I recently got my first Marshall and it kicks ass. Plain and simple. And I still think my other guitar players JVM crushes.
Death by Uberschall
Active member
Marshall has plenty of money to throw around, that's how they get those walls of fake amps/cabs across those stages. Doesn't mean what you hear is coming from Marshall.
jabps
Well-known member
And it doesn't mean it's not. I remember years ago when I worked for the promoter in my hometown (had unlimited access)...I'd always go back stage looking for the secret amps, for 8 years I did that. Don't think I ever found one. Not saying it doesn't happen...just not to the degree that some believe.Death by Uberschall":2cquk7ya said:Marshall has plenty of money to throw around, that's how they get those walls of fake amps/cabs across those stages. Doesn't mean what you hear is coming from Marshall.