Just bought my fourth Mark IIC+.

A killer deal came up on an all original 60w no-GEQ IIC+ so I scooped it up. It needs service, has a bad cap. Hence the good deal I think. So I sent it off to Mike B. today. Wanted to share some thoughts.

I've had a HRG IIC that became a IIC+ that became a IIC++.

I've had a DRG IIC+ that became a IIC++.

I've had a DR IIC+ that stayed that way.

I also have a IIB"+" Coliseum so I'm able to slave, and compare all the power sections.

Now this SR IIC+. I have to say, this is a killer amp. It has the fastest attack of all of them except the Coli in pentode mode. No surprise because it's also pentode, but so was the HRG and that one could not touch the attack of this one. I think the X101 tranny on my HRG just wasn't as fast.

The Simulclass amps really do have an un-matched liquid lead tone, but honestly I prefer a tight pentode power section for rhythm.

Both the DR & this SR have better tone than the GEQ models did, and clearly sweeter harmonics & sustain. For not metal they are better amps.

For metal, the factory GEQ is where it's at. I've run an EQ in the loop and it gets the job done but it doesn't sound as good as the stock GEQ.

So there's really a lot of value in the no-GEQ models & the 60W models that I think is ignored in the "DRG or die" world.

I also think in general, the Mark Coliseums are way undervalued. They just destroy EVERYTHING.

GJgo":2kftfgjq said:

A killer deal came up on an all original 60w no-GEQ IIC+ so I scooped it up. It needs service, has a bad cap. Hence the good deal I think. So I sent it off to Mike B. today. Wanted to share some thoughts.

I've had a HRG IIC that became a IIC+ that became a IIC++.

I've had a DRG IIC+ that became a IIC++.

I've had a DR IIC+ that stayed that way.

I also have a IIB"+" Coliseum so I'm able to slave, and compare all the power sections.

Now this SR IIC+. I have to say, this is a killer amp. It has the fastest attack of all of them except the Coli in pentode mode. No surprise because it's also pentode, but so was the HRG and that one could not touch the attack of this one. I think the X101 tranny on my HRG just wasn't as fast.

The Simulclass amps really do have an un-matched liquid lead tone, but honestly I prefer a tight pentode power section for rhythm.



Both the DR & this SR have better tone than the GEQ models did, and clearly sweeter harmonics & sustain. For not metal they are better amps.

For metal, the factory GEQ is where it's at. I've run an EQ in the loop and it gets the job done but it doesn't sound as good as the stock GEQ.

So there's really a lot of value in the no-GEQ models & the 60W models that I think is ignored in the "DRG or die" world.

I also think in general, the Mark Coliseums are way undervalued. They just destroy EVERYTHING.

Click to expand...

I agree, the non eq models have a very fast attack, sweet for leads. Tone wise I don't agree; the 60w S was cool but not 'better' tone than any of the other 5 I've had. Just a faster attack. I've had an S, an upgraded SRG, factory HRG, upgraded HRG++, and now an upgraded Coliseum. For pure tone the upgraded SRG wins. Just a sweet sounding amp. Second goes to the Coli, then the HRG ++, S, and lastly the factory HRG..which blows the 'originals are better than upgrade' BS. All sounded killer though.
But, without the GEQ they are WAY too mid honky for me. I wonder if a Parametric in front would work well to scoop those out? I have a TC 1140 inbound, I'll have to leave the EQ off and give it a shot.

Wow! NHAD! I have a mkiv that I love, someday I will have to get a mkiii. But I dream of a coli, my finances don't agree though lol.

Cheers!

Nice one! I've read that the non eq versions are the "true" holy grails

Racerxrated":dx8v89gf said:

GJgo":dx8v89gf said:

A killer deal came up on an all original 60w no-GEQ IIC+ so I scooped it up. It needs service, has a bad cap. Hence the good deal I think. So I sent it off to Mike B. today. Wanted to share some thoughts.

I've had a HRG IIC that became a IIC+ that became a IIC++.

I've had a DRG IIC+ that became a IIC++.

I've had a DR IIC+ that stayed that way.

I also have a IIB"+" Coliseum so I'm able to slave, and compare all the power sections.

Now this SR IIC+. I have to say, this is a killer amp. It has the fastest attack of all of them except the Coli in pentode mode. No surprise because it's also pentode, but so was the HRG and that one could not touch the attack of this one. I think the X101 tranny on my HRG just wasn't as fast.

The Simulclass amps really do have an un-matched liquid lead tone, but honestly I prefer a tight pentode power section for rhythm.



Both the DR & this SR have better tone than the GEQ models did, and clearly sweeter harmonics & sustain. For not metal they are better amps.

For metal, the factory GEQ is where it's at. I've run an EQ in the loop and it gets the job done but it doesn't sound as good as the stock GEQ.

So there's really a lot of value in the no-GEQ models & the 60W models that I think is ignored in the "DRG or die" world.

I also think in general, the Mark Coliseums are way undervalued. They just destroy EVERYTHING.

Click to expand...

I agree, the non eq models have a very fast attack, sweet for leads. Tone wise I don't agree; the 60w S was cool but not 'better' tone than any of the other 5 I've had. Just a faster attack. I've had an S, an upgraded SRG, factory HRG, upgraded HRG++, and now an upgraded Coliseum. For pure tone the upgraded SRG wins. Just a sweet sounding amp. Second goes to the Coli, then the HRG ++, S, and lastly the factory HRG..which blows the 'originals are better than upgrade' BS. All sounded killer though.
But, without the GEQ they are WAY too mid honky for me. I wonder if a Parametric in front would work well to scoop those out? I have a TC 1140 inbound, I'll have to leave the EQ off and give it a shot.

Click to expand...

Personally, I’ve never found any EQ in front of the amp better than through the loop for cutting, I’d try that tc both ways and see what you prefer. For boosting hands down in front of the ampis the way to go though...

Congrats, I almost bought that one too. The SG++ I have is devastating. Plain lays waste to most amps I've heard/played.

BTW this SR is going to come back to me a C++. When I had the DRG C++ (which was amazing) I spent a LOT of time with the GEQ off, and sometimes forgot it was off it sounded so damn good. Think perfect AC/DC type grinding tone. See here-
https://youtu.be/SYWQkgi58go?t=500

Racer, remember ALL of mine have been serviced by Mike so it's a pretty level playing field. To my ear the no GEQ units with the RP11 had a sweet sustain & tone that was just that much better. There was this one note I could hit with my Horizon and the DR that would sustain literally indefinitely. That said, I accept that with these old amps there's a lot of "personality" amp to amp..

Swamp- At this point I'd rather have any good Coli than an average IIC+. The Coli power section is UNREAL. Save up & be ready! A III Coli just sold last week, I believe by one of the guys on here, for about $1600 IIRC.

GJgo":wwpdif48 said:

BTW this SR is going to come back to me a C++. When I had the DRG C++ (which was amazing) I spent a LOT of time with the GEQ off, and sometimes forgot it was off it sounded so damn good. Think perfect AC/DC type grinding tone. See here-
https://youtu.be/SYWQkgi58go?t=500

Racer, remember ALL of mine have been serviced by Mike so it's a pretty level playing field. To my ear the no GEQ units with the RP11 had a sweet sustain & tone that was just that much better. There was this one note I could hit with my Horizon and the DR that would sustain literally indefinitely. That said, I accept that with these old amps there's a lot of "personality" amp to amp..

Swamp- At this point I'd rather have any good Coli than an average IIC+. The Coli power section is UNREAL. Save up & be ready! A III Coli just sold last week, I believe by one of the guys on here, for about $1600 IIRC.

Click to expand...

The 'worst' one of the bunch I've owned was an RP11 HRG..and when you talk to Mike he'll tell you the same thing, RP/SP 10/11 it's all the same circuit. Just any difference between amps of the same model. When I say 'worst' it was still a killer C+. Just preferred all the others more. Every one of mine, except that original HRG was recently serviced by Mike within a 2 yr period at the longest...and the original HRG was serviced 10 yrs before. So all should have been in tip top playing condition. But I do agree, the non GEQ do have something (they don't have a cap that's associated with the GEQ) special that does allow for the fast attack, when I did some runs on the S I felt faster than I really am lol....I can see how that translates to endless sustain.
But that mid 'honk' is just too much...I can see making an A/B rig and use the non GEQ for leads and your Coli for Rhythm...

paulyc":1n5jnz9e said:

Racerxrated":1n5jnz9e said:

GJgo":1n5jnz9e said:

A killer deal came up on an all original 60w no-GEQ IIC+ so I scooped it up. It needs service, has a bad cap. Hence the good deal I think. So I sent it off to Mike B. today. Wanted to share some thoughts.

I've had a HRG IIC that became a IIC+ that became a IIC++.

I've had a DRG IIC+ that became a IIC++.

I've had a DR IIC+ that stayed that way.

I also have a IIB"+" Coliseum so I'm able to slave, and compare all the power sections.

Now this SR IIC+. I have to say, this is a killer amp. It has the fastest attack of all of them except the Coli in pentode mode. No surprise because it's also pentode, but so was the HRG and that one could not touch the attack of this one. I think the X101 tranny on my HRG just wasn't as fast.

The Simulclass amps really do have an un-matched liquid lead tone, but honestly I prefer a tight pentode power section for rhythm.



Both the DR & this SR have better tone than the GEQ models did, and clearly sweeter harmonics & sustain. For not metal they are better amps.

For metal, the factory GEQ is where it's at. I've run an EQ in the loop and it gets the job done but it doesn't sound as good as the stock GEQ.

So there's really a lot of value in the no-GEQ models & the 60W models that I think is ignored in the "DRG or die" world.

I also think in general, the Mark Coliseums are way undervalued. They just destroy EVERYTHING.

Click to expand...

I agree, the non eq models have a very fast attack, sweet for leads. Tone wise I don't agree; the 60w S was cool but not 'better' tone than any of the other 5 I've had. Just a faster attack. I've had an S, an upgraded SRG, factory HRG, upgraded HRG++, and now an upgraded Coliseum. For pure tone the upgraded SRG wins. Just a sweet sounding amp. Second goes to the Coli, then the HRG ++, S, and lastly the factory HRG..which blows the 'originals are better than upgrade' BS. All sounded killer though.
But, without the GEQ they are WAY too mid honky for me. I wonder if a Parametric in front would work well to scoop those out? I have a TC 1140 inbound, I'll have to leave the EQ off and give it a shot.

Click to expand...

Personally, I’ve never found any EQ in front of the amp better than through the loop for cutting, I’d try that tc both ways and see what you prefer. For boosting hands down in front of the ampis the way to go though...

Click to expand...

I've only ever used an EQ in front of my amps. I know guys love to use them in the loops; I can see that working better for the scoop.

Im convinced I can get my Mark iv to sound like any IIc in any config, ive ever heard...eq is key too..

Racerxrated":9ft73m44 said:

paulyc":9ft73m44 said:

Racerxrated":9ft73m44 said:

GJgo":9ft73m44 said:

A killer deal came up on an all original 60w no-GEQ IIC+ so I scooped it up. It needs service, has a bad cap. Hence the good deal I think. So I sent it off to Mike B. today. Wanted to share some thoughts.

I've had a HRG IIC that became a IIC+ that became a IIC++.

I've had a DRG IIC+ that became a IIC++.

I've had a DR IIC+ that stayed that way.

I also have a IIB"+" Coliseum so I'm able to slave, and compare all the power sections.

Now this SR IIC+. I have to say, this is a killer amp. It has the fastest attack of all of them except the Coli in pentode mode. No surprise because it's also pentode, but so was the HRG and that one could not touch the attack of this one. I think the X101 tranny on my HRG just wasn't as fast.

The Simulclass amps really do have an un-matched liquid lead tone, but honestly I prefer a tight pentode power section for rhythm.



Both the DR & this SR have better tone than the GEQ models did, and clearly sweeter harmonics & sustain. For not metal they are better amps.

For metal, the factory GEQ is where it's at. I've run an EQ in the loop and it gets the job done but it doesn't sound as good as the stock GEQ.

So there's really a lot of value in the no-GEQ models & the 60W models that I think is ignored in the "DRG or die" world.

I also think in general, the Mark Coliseums are way undervalued. They just destroy EVERYTHING.

Click to expand...

I agree, the non eq models have a very fast attack, sweet for leads. Tone wise I don't agree; the 60w S was cool but not 'better' tone than any of the other 5 I've had. Just a faster attack. I've had an S, an upgraded SRG, factory HRG, upgraded HRG++, and now an upgraded Coliseum. For pure tone the upgraded SRG wins. Just a sweet sounding amp. Second goes to the Coli, then the HRG ++, S, and lastly the factory HRG..which blows the 'originals are better than upgrade' BS. All sounded killer though.
But, without the GEQ they are WAY too mid honky for me. I wonder if a Parametric in front would work well to scoop those out? I have a TC 1140 inbound, I'll have to leave the EQ off and give it a shot.

Click to expand...

Personally, I’ve never found any EQ in front of the amp better than through the loop for cutting, I’d try that tc both ways and see what you prefer. For boosting hands down in front of the ampis the way to go though...

Click to expand...

I've only ever used an EQ in front of my amps. I know guys love to use them in the loops; I can see that working better for the scoop.

Click to expand...

The tone can change with the EQ pre or post Distortion... some guys do both to really zoom in on a specific tone.

The onboard Mesa Graphic EQs are placed within the amp circuit, after preamp post phase inverter and before the power amp which allow you to actually change the feel of the amp. Any external EQ is placed outside of the amp circuit not giving you as much control over the actual feel of the amp.

I am sure people will chime in and tell me that a non EQ IIC+ with no options sounds way better because back in 94 they had or heard one that won't touch any loaded IIC+s tone wise so therefore they're right and I'm wrong and they all should sell for the same price.

So from the schematic, the GEQ comes after all the preamp stages, right before the power amp. The effects loop, however, comes between V2a and V2b. So I suspect that any frequency boosting and cutting in the loop is going to impact the gain/clipping into V2b. The built in GEQ won't do that, so I would assume an EQ in the loop is just not going to behave the same way.

I assume it's possible to mod the amp to have essentially a preamp out/power amp in type loop, and that really should be the same if the Mesa EQ pedal really is the same components operating at the same voltages.

FWIW, I just can't get into the GEQ with either my IIC+ or III. I don't hate it at super low volumes, but I want it out once it reaches any modest volume. Just sounds cartoonish pumping in all that low end. It sounds fine set more subtle, but then it sounds great with it just off. IMHO.

cardinal":jdvyp0i2 said:

So from the schematic, the GEQ comes after all the preamp stages, right before the power amp. The effects loop, however, comes between V2a and V2b. So I suspect that any frequency boosting and cutting in the loop is going to impact the gain/clipping into V2b. The built in GEQ won't do that, so I would assume an EQ in the loop is just not going to behave the same way.

I assume it's possible to mod the amp to have essentially a preamp out/power amp in type loop, and that really should be the same if the Mesa EQ pedal really is the same components operating at the same voltages.

FWIW, I just can't get into the GEQ with either my IIC+ or III. I don't hate it at super low volumes, but I want it out once it reaches any modest volume. Just sounds cartoonish pumping in all that low end. It sounds fine set more subtle, but then it sounds great with it just off. IMHO.

Click to expand...

You are 100% correct I may have phrased it slightly wrong, but keep messing with your EQ, you will find the setting that works for your amp. I found out of all the IIC+s I owned no two EQ settings worked exactly the same for each amp, I assume factors like tubes, guitar etc... factor in.

My comments were aimed more at the fact that the OP bought a non GEQ amp, so anyone else with a non GEQ amp may want to EQ in the loop and/or in front of the amp for variety.

My comment wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular other than the IIC+ community is a very sensitive bunch in general so stating certain options may have a detrimental effect on tone sets people off and then they post anecdotal evidence to support their position never an actual clip. That's all.

Also no offence to the OP didn't mean to sidetrack your thread, congrats on the purchase. Looking forward to clips, always loved your Youtube clips.

Thanks guys. Hey in case you haven't seen it, check out my vid of onboard GEQ vs. the Mesa 5 band in the loop. The onboard IS better. BUT compared to a no-GEQ amp I do still believe it has an effect on tone.
https://youtu.be/rvofBY6HnRw

Also here's one with my factory DR where i toggle the 5 band in at some point. That amp SANG. But.. I really do prefer the attack of this SR.
https://youtu.be/G6zI-fVggTo

Funny thing, I drank all the SimulClass cool-aid but I could never quite get the chest kicking thump I was looking for. Then, I figured out the difference between triode & pentode. Then, I figured out how insane big power sections are. Now I've sold all the Simul amps & I'm happy Where my cool-aid really got dilluted is when I started playing the amps in the band mix. I never really cared for where they sat compared to my Rectos. My Coli is the only one that's sounded good in the band mix to me, and it crushes! I do prefer the tone when I slave the C+ into the Coli power section but I have to say, I think the slight bit of "less smoothness" does help it to sit a little better in the mix. I might end up with a III Coli because that would take this to the next level. I always did love the tone on 1987...
https://youtu.be/qeuJroofynU

You know what I use the 5 band for these days? I have it in the loop & use it for my solo boost with a frowny face. I LOVE it this way, way better than just a volume boost like my MultiWatt & Five 35 have a button for. It increases volume & changes the EQ so the solo steps right out.

EXP no I don't think they should sell for the same price. I'm happy ATM with the lower models being cheaper. Gives more guys a chance to see for themselves. I'll definitely do a clip wen I get it back from Mike.

155- have you ever owned a C+? I've had them all. IIIs are aggressive and harsh. IVs are a refinement of this but they start to move into that modern compressed thing with the IVb especially. They each have their own thing going on, which is cool, but it's different. Saying they sound the same is a bit of a stretch, and there's no way you can get them to FEEL the same. That's the key element.

Here's a funny story. So my mom is a bass player, been gigging a long time. She has very sensitive ears /tinnitus. She doesn't know or care about geeking out on guitar amps. Now, every time I get a new amp I play it for her. Without prompting she IMMEDIATELY will call out if an amp is harsh or if it's smooth. I hear the same thing but she's more sensitive to it. She can't even be in the room with a Mark III or IV, or my Rectos either, but I can crank the IIC+ and shes good. THAT'S something the others can't touch.

Congrats, and HNAD, again!

Stupid question: have you tried slaving any of your Mark IIC+ amps to something else, and if so did you like/prefer the result?

I've owned several Mesa amps over the years, and for me they all sounded better when used with a 2:Ninety power amp. Especially the Rectifiers.

Years ago I was fortunate to borrow a Mark IIC+ for an extended period of time, and although I could not recall which specific variation it was, I remember preferring it with the external power amp as well.

Just wondering what you experience has been.

Thanks!

danielraible":zg9dw8ki said:

Congrats, and HNAD, again!

Stupid question: have you tried slaving any of your Mark IIC+ amps to something else, and if so did you like/prefer the result?

I've owned several Mesa amps over the years, and for me they all sounded better when used with a 2:Ninety power amp. Especially the Rectifiers.

Years ago I was fortunate to borrow a Mark IIC+ for an extended period of time, and although I could not recall which specific variation it was, I remember preferring it with the external power amp as well.

Just wondering what you experience has been.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

I'll jump in with my experience:

My first C+ was an SRG, that I found at a GC for 750 as a 2C. Of course, shortly after I shipped it to Mike for the upgrade to the +. Great amp. I ended up with a Strategy 400 as well; and after finding a few more cabs I slaved the SRG to the Strategy with an Intellifex in between for FX. What a monster that rig was. Eventually I sold the Strategy; not sure why but probably due to GAS. You know how it goes. I found a 2B Coliseum and slaved the C+ into that, I preferred that tone to the Strategy tone by just a hair as it seemed more 'direct' vs using the Strategy. Felt like it was one amp vs the Strategy where I knew it was a multiple unit rig. So I preferred slaving with the Coliseum vs the Strategy, by just a little bit.

danielraible":74z10sbq said:

Congrats, and HNAD, again!

Stupid question: have you tried slaving any of your Mark IIC+ amps to something else, and if so did you like/prefer the result?

I've owned several Mesa amps over the years, and for me they all sounded better when used with a 2:Ninety power amp. Especially the Rectifiers.

Years ago I was fortunate to borrow a Mark IIC+ for an extended period of time, and although I could not recall which specific variation it was, I remember preferring it with the external power amp as well.

Just wondering what you experience has been.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Do you recall if you were using Modern mode on the 2:90? Running stereo / multiple cabs? That would explain a lot.

I've slaved my various amps around but not to a dedicated power amp. Generally speaking I prefer the big power sections. I don't get worked up about this, though.