Racerxrated
Well-known member
Yes, in the 2 outer slots only. In the Coli Mike said he could wire my 2 inner slots for EL34 but it would be permanent. Plus it drops the wattage a bit
Mark IIB+ Coli vs. IIC+ Coli- two of the heaviest amps ever made IN ONE BEDROOM!
- Thread starter GJgo
- Start date
GJgo
Well-known member
It is not a KDRG! It's Class A/B Pentode, which I also prefer. Well to be specific, I prefer pentode. I don't really care if it's A/B or Simul- for example green stripes, IV and V can do Pentode Simul & it rips.
IIBornot had the same pair of amps as I do, (I'm 99% sure his C+ KRG was not Simul) and as his tech tested the B is ~30W hotter than the C+. It's real!
I have been told that the III Coli power sections (at some point) got smaller still, though I have no evidence to back it up. We all know a lot of black stripes had leftover C+ parts so..
GJgo
Well-known member
That's because up until the III green stripe, the Simul amls had the Class A pair wired in triode. That's why it's 75W. THe S & H amps were pentode, with all the extra awesome that goes along with it.
On III green stripe the Class A pair was wired in Pentode. Also, IV and V are switchable from pentode to triode.
IOW it's not the Simul you don't like- it's triode. I'm fairly confident of this. Simul pentode has all the aggression with all the harmonic overlay.
The funny thing about Metallica- AJFA and TBA I have a fairly high level of confidence that it's the C++ preamp slaved into a Strategy 400 power amp. There's no way to get "that sound" with a 4 tube power section. Of course a 1960B on AJFA and a Recto V30 cab on TBA. Couple important things here.
- While I think some Strategy 400 can run "Simul", I'm fairly confident it's some hybrid of the pentode version based on the wattage.
- The onboard GEQ is AFTER the effects loop. (Though TBH I don't know if it's before or after the "slave out".)
In other words the market gets a huge boner for the DRG, and that's not even really how it was done.
The 60 watters are for sure the most pissed off. Way more aggressive than the H models, even when they are on half power. Small PT FTW!
GJgo
Well-known member
I actually like the EL34 blend in the band mix, but definitely prefer all 6L6 at home.
To do this, the bias for the Class A pair is really hot for a 6L6 and coldish for an EL34. So, you have to be a little careful based on what bias % you generally prefer. I prefer 60-70% for A/B and 70-80% for Class A, and I have tested lots of tubes in lots of Boogies, so I have a fairly good handle on what Mesa "color" is in the ballpark for various amps. Happy to help here over PM if you need more info for your setup.
braintheory
Well-known member
That makes sense about the pentode. It sounds like it probably does account for those qualities I prefer except for maybe the smoothness vs growl part. From my experience (with other amps though more than boogies) with amps that had a pentode/triode switch, while I totally heard all those differences you mentioned, the amps I’ve tried with them seemed to if anything usually be a little less smooth/more growly in triode than pentode, so I am getting the sense that maybe, all else being equal, simul class may still give a smoother sound. Those IV’s and V’s that you mentioned in pentode imo were too smooth/lacking growl on powerchords compared to my iic+ hrg and even in those recordings of Metallica I heard that similar smoothness that I don’t care for (despite all the treble they had dialed in). It always sounded to me like the growl never got there all the way or wasn’t as complete in growl like with my hrg or no stripe ++ coliThat's because up until the III green stripe, the Simul amls had the Class A pair wired in triode. That's why it's 75W. THe S & H amps were pentode, with all the extra awesome that goes along with it.
On III green stripe the Class A pair was wired in Pentode. Also, IV and V are switchable from pentode to triode.
IOW it's not the Simul you don't like- it's triode. I'm fairly confident of this. Simul pentode has all the aggression with all the harmonic overlay.
The funny thing about Metallica- AJFA and TBA I have a fairly high level of confidence that it's the C++ preamp slaved into a Strategy 400 power amp. There's no way to get "that sound" with a 4 tube power section. Of course a 1960B on AJFA and a Recto V30 cab on TBA. Couple important things here.
- While I think some Strategy 400 can run "Simul", I'm fairly confident it's some hybrid of the pentode version based on the wattage.
- The onboard GEQ is AFTER the effects loop. (Though TBH I don't know if it's before or after the "slave out".)
In other words the market gets a huge boner for the DRG, and that's not even really how it was done.
The 60 watters are for sure the most pissed off. Way more aggressive than the H models, even when they are on half power. Small PT FTW!
I do remember the green stripe I had being more punchy and open than other Mark iii’s. Makes sense about the strategy 400 with Metallica. I had one, but sold it because when compared to my no stripe coli as a poweramp it was in every way superior to my ears (even without engaging the GEQ), so the Strategy became a heavy boat anchor for me. I’d be very curious to try a 60 watt iic+. I tried one many years ago and sounded great, but had no GEQ
GJgo
Well-known member
Here's some tone clips to tide you guys over till I can record the C+ Coli. First up is the B+ KRG vs. my Mark IVb. Like I've said for some time now, I think these are really tonally pretty similar. There are differences of course but these two have always been my top Marks for how I want a Mark to sound in my band.
GJgo
Well-known member
For the bedroom I like having the GEQ because it's easy, and it is more organic. That said, in the band I'd prefer a PEQ in the loop all day long- and the no EQ amps have a sweeter tone- so I'm not put off by the no EQ amps. I've had a number of them.
I like having triode for tracking leads, and maybe if I want a blusey clean / crunch tone, but honestly I prefer pentode for almost all of my wanking.
IIBornotIIB
Well-known member
You’re right, not KDRG, it was C++ KRG.
My SRG is the most pissed-off C+ I have owned, so far. The GEQ is great, and, when layering on a ParaEq, even better! I’ve played HRG’s, bur haven’t lived with one for enough time. Will find out soon enough, as I have one incoming.
Beyond Black
Well-known member
Killer clips there, Jeremy.
IIBornotIIB
Well-known member
What I hear: The IIB KRG has more ballz for rhythm vs C+. It sits up better. The IIC+ KRG excels at the singing lead with more finesse. Thanks for uploading!
braintheory
Well-known member
The IIB+ and IIC+ coli compare in that clip exactly the way you described earlier. I dial my Mark amps in differently than that though. The Triple Rev F didn’t sound how I expected (I own a triple Rev F/C). I would have expected it to sound much more warm, growly, thick with that recto sag, but somehow sounded a bit anemic/stale compared to the 2 coli’s. Not sure why that would be, unless you were using the red channel maybe or maybe it’s something about the way it was recorded. In person my Triple Rev F/C doesn’t sound like it did that clip. Just another thing as constructive criticism; if you did more vibrato on the longer held notes on the leads played at the end it would show more about the amp’s tonal complexity, overtones imo and can also demonstrate certain aspect where iic+’s tend to really shine over most other amps. Just my 2 cents
GJgo
Well-known member
That TriRec was the biggest, baddest amp I'd ever experienced that brutalized all other amps- until I got a Coli.
That being said for whatever reason I've never been able to capture a thick Recto tone on a microphone. Trust me, it is much thicker in the room.
..Also make sure to read the notes in the description.
That being said for whatever reason I've never been able to capture a thick Recto tone on a microphone. Trust me, it is much thicker in the room.
..Also make sure to read the notes in the description.
braintheory
Well-known member
Haha believe me, I know how thick those amps are. I've never heard any amp yet with the same thickness of my Triple Rev F/C. My Coli's do sound bigger overall than my Triple Rev F/C like you said, more extended bottom end, but does't have that same thick lower mid growl. For whatever reason my Triple actually sounded a bit bigger than my coli when we tested them in my friend's re-amping last week, but I don't know much about recording or how he went about it. He was much preferring the Triple for his stuff and it surprisingly translated beautifully to the way he recorded. I was worried it would come off maybe too thick, dark or muddy, but it didn't somehow. It was his 2nd favorite amp overall of what I have for high gain, 1st was the Naylor. I read them this time, my bad. I just watched in this page rather than in YouTube before. Makes a little more sense nowThat TriRec was the biggest, baddest amp I'd ever experienced that brutalized all other amps- until I got a Coli.
That being said for whatever reason I've never been able to capture a thick Recto tone on a microphone. Trust me, it is much thicker in the room.
..Also make sure to read the notes in the description.
GJgo
Well-known member
I've gone back & forth between Rectos & Marks for years. Now that I've gigged with a Coli, honestly it's going to be hard to go back. To me Colis are King! If there are high gain amps out there with a bigger power section, I'd love to try it.
The Naylors are getting stellar reviews lately!
The Naylors are getting stellar reviews lately!
braintheory
Well-known member
Naylor is an amazing amp! More in the Marshall ballpark, but still it's own thing. Of what I've tried the 3 biggest sounding amps I've tried are my old Hiwatt DR103 at volume (Very very loud), 1997 Blueface VH4 and 1989 Soldano SLO. All need the master high to get there though. When I say big, I mean they move more air, fill/shake the room more than any other amps I've tried even though they're all 100 watts vs 180 for my coli. The coli's will still have that more efficient/effortless way they put out sound from that 180 watts and will be way way tighter/more focused sounding, but not as big sounding imo as those 3 amps. The Hiwatt and Blueface have the deepest, heaviest bottom end of any amps I've tried, especially the Blue. Those 2 amps are probably the most carnival-ride-like amps I've tried (first heard that term I think from Racerxrated lol)
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Racerxrated
Well-known member
Haha it’s hard to describe what some of these amps do as we put them through their paces. ‘Organic’, ‘3D’, ‘complex’, Carnival ride are my way of saying ‘wow does this amp sound incredible and move some serious air!’
braintheory
Well-known member
I’ve got other amps that are betrer than those in the organic, 3D or complex department, but when I play either of those 3 behemoths at volume I’m seriously concerned that one of the speakers in my 412 will break. My coli’s and triple rev F/C don’t have that effect despite being almost twice the wattage. So far nothing else I’ve tried shakes the room like that Hiwatt. Not really one of my absolute favorites for tone itself (same with the Blueface), but their huge wow factor at volume can’t be ignored