Mike Johnson, theocrat: the House speaker and a plot against America

[Bad Brain]

If a teacher went out and said “Jesus wasnt real and hell is fake”, sure I could see a problem with that.

It doesn’t have to be explicitly stated.

But simply stating something that happens to go against Christianity is in no way inappropriate or offensive

I agree, but you have to take into account that some issues are particularly contentious. That should be acknowledged and respected.

 

[JTyson]

We are just here to remind you to set your clocks back 1 hour today, not human rights 1 century

Yes, thank you, because laughing my ass off at the OP does exactly that, right?

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Of course it’s happening — public schools in some jurisdictions are to honor/force the preferred identity, including bathrooms, sports, pronouns, etc.

Equality doesn’t necessarily mean there are no differences. A bag of apples or oranges each cost $5…

What is wrong with calling someone what they want to be called? We learn people’s names, why can’t we learn the preferred pronouns of the tiny percent of people who may not look how they feel? It takes zero effort.

And as I’ve said, bathrooms and I’ll now include locker rooms are changing every day. There is little chance of being exposed to anyone else if you don’t want to be.

Hazing has been an issue for a long time and any respectable institution deals with it swiftly.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

It doesn’t have to be explicitly stated.

I agree, but you have to take into account that some issues are particularly contentious. That should be acknowledged and respected.

No it should not. No more than any other possible religion.

 

[Bad Brain]

What is wrong with calling someone what they want to be called? We learn people’s names, why can’t we learn the preferred pronouns of the tiny percent of people who may not look how they feel? It takes zero effort.

A name is one thing, a pronoun is another entirely. That involves science, biology and objective reality, not simply one’s beliefs about it.

Hazing has been an issue for a long time and any respectable institution deals with it swiftly.

I’m not sure what you mean by hazing, but objecting to being forced to do something that goes against conscientiously held beliefs is not hazing.

 

[Bad Brain]

No it should not. No more than any other possible religion.

I’m saying that in a pluralistic democracy, contentious issues should be acknowledged and treated as such, regardless if one side is deemed to be “Religiously based.”

 

[Dan Gleesak]

A name is one thing, a pronoun is another entirely. That involves science, biology and objective reality, not simple one’s philosophy.

I’m not sure what you mean by hazing, but objecting to being forced to do something that goes against conscientiously held beliefs is not hazing.

It really has nothing to do with science and it is completely about one person’s philosophy.

I guess I’m not sure why you brought up locker rooms then. Is it against one’s religion to let a girl play on a boys team?

 

[Dan Gleesak]

I’m saying that in a pluralistic democracy, contentious issues should be acknowledged and treated as such, regardless if one side is deemed to be “Religiously based.”

but why is it contentious aside from religious beliefs? What is wrong about being gay aside from the Bible saying you’ll go to hell for it?

 

[Bad Brain]

It really has nothing to do with science and it is completely about one person’s philosophy.

Biologists have never recognized that the human species can change their sex, unlike some amphibians for example.

I guess I’m not sure why you brought up locker rooms then. Is it against one’s religion to let a girl play on a boys team?

I don’t even think this is religious, it’s just natural. Most (Not all) women don’t want men in their bathrooms. And again, while equal in value, men on average have biological characteristics that give them an unfair advantage competing in women’s sports. Were you really a teacher?!

 

[Bad Brain]

but why is it contentious aside from religious beliefs? What is wrong about being gay aside from the Bible saying you’ll go to hell for it?

I’m arguing it doesn’t matter if it is religious.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Biologists have never recognized that the human species can change their sex, unlike some amphibians for example.

I don’t even think this is religious, it’s just natural. Most (Not all) women don’t want men in their bathrooms. And again, while equal in value, men on average have biological characteristics that give them an unfair advantage competing in women’s sports. Were you really a teacher?!

That’s why I brought up that bathrooms are changing to accommodate all people. It’s a process but there is a huge effort to do something about it. By and large, gone are the days of the whole team stripping down next to each other (unless they want to).

and well sports, I find that to be so incredibly minuscule to the overall picture I don’t even consider it to be honest. Schools sports are about inclusion and professional sports are a private thing that can do whatever the hell they want with it.

And I guess I’ll say it again, but identity has nothing to do with biology. It’s why you hear “biological man, biological women, biological father, etc”. It is accepted that biology and actual role are not always the same.

 

[Bad Brain]

and well sports, I find that to be so incredibly minuscule to the overall picture I don’t even consider it to be honest. Schools sports are about inclusion and professional sports are a private thing that can do whatever the hell they want with it.

Well, again, it's your preferences and beliefs. School sports are actually pretty important and can often be part of a child's career trajectory.

And I guess I’ll say it again, but identity has nothing to do with biology. It’s why you hear “biological man, biological women, biological father, etc”. It is accepted that biology and actual role are not always the same.

It may be accepted, but that's not how our society is built, and I think for good reason. The biological/behavioral link is much tighter than trendy people like to imagine. And it's fine if someone's behavior or preference deviates, but that doesn't make them a different biological sex. If some people want to change how as a society we view such fundamental categories, fine, but it should be a democratic process. Not snuck in at school by activist teachers and their backers, behind parents' backs.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Well, again, it's your preferences and beliefs. School sports are actually pretty important and can often be part of a child's career trajectory.

It may be accepted, but that's not how our society is built, and I think for good reason. The biological/behavioral link is much tighter than trendy people like to imagine. And it's fine if someone's behavior or preference deviates. But that doesn't make them a different biological sex. If some people want to change how we look as a society at such a fundamental category, fine, but it should be a democratic process. Not snuck in at school by activist teachers and their backers, behind parents' backs.

My point is that what importance does biological sex have with any of this? Using your example, why do you think a women would not want a man in the same bathroom as them? Strictly because he has a penis? Because they think men will try and take advantage of them? They think they are going to try and take a peak?

2 out of the 3 are “preference” issues already, are they not?

And highschool sports are still about inclusion. Sure there are some hopefuls mixed in there, and a fraction of those have any chance of making a career out of it, but that chance is based on their own personal performance and nothing else. And even if you don’t agree with that, it is a very minor issue to be dealt with to allow the greater good of kids facing the issues of gender identity. Kids aren’t making “changes” for fun, it’s because they are absolutely miserable and fortunately many more are finding happiness before suicide.

 

[Bad Brain]

My point is that what importance does biological sex have with any of this?

It is important because our society is structured around the differentiation of this category, as it relates to reproduction, culture and behavior, IE a lot. It might not be perfect and maybe we should change it, but that should be done democratically. Kids want to transition for myriads of reasons. And I've heard the suicide argument, and my understanding is that it's not true, and the studies that have been done actually show increased rates post-transition, but feel free to show me otherwise. I will say that even if it did help, one's therapy should preclude forcing others to modify their conscientiously held beliefs.

 

[psychodave]

This thread is delicious.... DELICIOUS!!!

 

[Dan Gleesak]

It is important because our society is structured around the differentiation of this category, as it relates to reproduction, culture and behavior, IE a lot. It might not be perfect and maybe we should change it, but that should be done democratically. Kids want to transition for myriads of reasons. And I've heard the suicide argument, and my understanding is that it's not true, and the studies that have been done actually show increased rates post-transition, but feel free to show me otherwise. I will say that even if it did help, one's therapy should preclude forcing others to modify their conscientiously held beliefs.

I’m not sure our society is structured around the separation of men and women in restrooms, or anywhere for that matter. That kind of stuff was changed democratically quite a while ago.

There certainly are a myriad of reasons why kids decide to change, but almost all of them are for their own happiness.
The suicide thing is very real. I’ve sat through more training and lectures on all this than I care to admit. I used to roll my eyes at most of it, and I still do at some of it, but if you really make the effort to try and look at the world outside of your own situation and beliefs, it is shocking how much of the world is already catering to you, and has been for a long time.
The tiny change of occasionally having to refer to someone as their preferred pronouns most likely pales in comparison to what that person went through to get to that point.

Tell me really, how many times have you been FORCED to use pronouns? How does it really affect your day to day life? Even month to month or year to year life?

I can say personally I come in contact with at least a dozen people daily that use them, and the only effort it ever took was “oh, that’s what they want to be called”…. And that was it. One time I had to remember one thing about them.

 

[Bad Brain]

I’m not sure our society is structured around the separation of men and women in restrooms, or anywhere for that matter. That kind of stuff was changed democratically quite a while ago.

I think you’re mistaken, even though some things, like marriage and given gender roles, have changed. You’re ultimately coming up against the biology of human beings as an animal species. That’s not going to change dramatically IMO, as much as some people would like it to.

The suicide thing is very real.

Are you aware of a single scientific, peer-reviewed study?

The tiny change of occasionally having to refer to someone as their preferred pronouns most likely pales in comparison to what that person went through to get to that point.Tell me really, how many times have you been FORCED to use pronouns?

it’s more important than you might realize. We have the first amendment and freedom of conscience (supposedly) in this country. This is an insidious attack on freedom of religion and thought under the guise of “Empathy” and “Care.” These parents and kids are free to go start their own charter schools if they want, just like Christians and other traditionalists have been forced to do.

 

[VonBonfire]

This is an insidious attack on freedom of religion and thought under the guise of “Empathy” and “Care.” These parents and kids are free to go start their own charter schools if they want, just like Christians and other traditionalists have been forced to do.

This is a savage post. Nicely put. Everyone knows a LGBTQ school anywhere but San Fransicko and a few other wacknut locales would be DOA before they opened the doors. The lack of students would be an affirmation that not too many people really affirm same sex behavior.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

I think you’re mistaken, even though some things, like marriage and given gender roles, have changed. You’re ultimately coming up against the biology of human beings as an animal species. That’s not going to change dramatically IMO, as much as some people would like it to.

Are you aware of a single scientific, peer-reviewed study?

it’s more important than you might realize. We have the first amendment and freedom of conscience (supposedly) in this country. This is an insidious attack on freedom of religion and thought under the guise of “Empathy” and “Care.” These parents and kids are free to go start their own charter schools if they want, just like Christians and other traditionalists have been forced to do.

Lol there is no attacking going on, I say this politely but you just gotta get over it man. Religion is a choice, homosexuality is a fact of life. It is not the world’s fault that your beliefs find it to be evil.

All of this shit is as old as time, the only difference is more people feel comfortable talking about it now

 

[Bad Brain]

Lol there is no attacking going on, I say this politely but you just gotta get over it man. Religion is a choice, homosexuality is a fact of life. It is not the world’s fault that your beliefs find it to be evil.

You’re wrong homes. I don’t find it evil. I find condescension and disregard for others’ rights to be “Evil,” and I’ll be damned before I “Get over it.” Forcing people to say something they don’t believe is evil. And if the “Christian Nationalists” start trying to make you say the Hail Mary I’d argue the same.

You haven’t substantiated one point you’ve made today as far as I can tell. You’ve simply repeated the shallow, feel-good explanations that were force fed to you, which you accepted without challenge and which apparently “Rung true.” I encourage you to think more deeply about these issues and recognize that while you might be on board now, the same principles you implicitly support can be used against you by those you don’t agree with.