Bad luck with JJ ecc83s

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The~Kid said:
@BABMusic if you take a Pic of the preamps I may see what the Mesa tubes are possibly too for reference but yeah....



If they are Shuguangs if they have a square getter they are older 8th Gen if they have the round one they are 9th Gen and if it ain't a Shuguang it could be Sovtek or JJ. Right now I believe they use JJ rebrands for current production but older ones were Shuguangs for sure and/or Sovteks.
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I meant to respond sooner, but I was sick this week for a couple of days and it was miserable. Feels so good to not have that headache I was having.

Anyway, I took a picture, but not sure if this is clear enough for you to see anything useful. I tried all of these in the V1 in my BE50, and 2 of them sounded really good. The others were just "okay" or similar to the tone of the EH tubes I have.


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BABMusic said:
I meant to respond sooner, but I was sick this week for a couple of days and it was miserable. Feels so good to not have that headache I was having.

Anyway, I took a picture, but not sure if this is clear enough for you to see anything useful. I tried all of these in the V1 in my BE50, and 2 of them sounded really good. The others were just "okay" or similar to the tone of the EH tubes I have.


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Yeah these are Shuguang 8th Gen with Square Getter I believe as I can make out a square getter from the 2nd to last one from left to right.


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That means these are from the 90s or late 80s. If your looking for something with more gain would recommend 12AX7B matched/gain or a Groove Tube or RUBY TUBES 9th Gen.


Also another good option is the Sovtek LPS or even Tungsol RI but the TungSol RI are a bit more darker.



How do you think these are tone wise?
 
Wow, you have good eyes. How do I like them tone wise? They are decent. They have slightly less gain than my JJ tubes, but they are a little brighter. Like I said before, 2 of these sound much better than the rest of them. These are indeed old. Some of them are from a Mesa DC-3 that I briefly owned. The guy who sold it to me said the amp was sitting in his studio and not being used much for years.
 
BABMusic said:
Wow, you have good eyes. How do I like them tone wise? They are decent. They have slightly less gain than my JJ tubes, but they are a little brighter. Like I said before, 2 of these sound much better than the rest of them. These are indeed old. Some of them are from a Mesa DC-3 that I briefly owned. The guy who sold it to me said the amp was sitting in his studio and not being used much for years.
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Yeah if your looking for an upgrade the 9th Gen from Ruby Tube or Groove Tubes are a good start gain wise and they are brighter also then either LPS or Tungsol LPS is brighter and Tungsol darker but both pack gain. LPS packs more gain than TungSol though but not as much as a 9th Gen.


Also consider the 9th Gen from The Tube Store at 20 bucks and they match them or whatever too but can't go wrong with either Ruby Tubes at Dougs Tubes or Groove Tubes at Ruby Tubes.
 
Jeeeeeeeeezus freerrrrrrikin Chrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiissssst..
 
Your telling me Fender/Mesa/Big Boutiques and the whole Music Industry like SweetWater, GC and people in general within the music industry can't find a viable means to do this in CA, Indiana, Texas etc etc nvm in Mexico or Guatemala or India or maybe Vietnam or something........... vs continuing to rely on Chinese and Russian tubes and subpar Slovakian tubes......


In 2025........ this isn't Quantum Computing/AI..... it's technology from the fucking 40s guys :dunno:




 
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The~Kid said:
Your telling me Fender/Mesa/Big Boutiques and the whole Music Industry like SweetWater, GC and people in general within the music industry can't find a viable means to do this in CA, Indiana, Texas etc etc nvm in Mexico or Guatemala or India or maybe Vietnam or something........... vs continuing to rely on Chinese and Russian tubes and subpar Slovakian tubes......


In 2025 :dunno:




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Do you know what the worldwide market is on tubes compared to how much it costs to build and employ a factory compared to how long it would take to break even, let alone profit? This hobby is a niche.
 
NowYou'rePlayingWithPower said:
Do you know what the worldwide market is on tubes compared to how much it costs to build and employ a factory compared to how long it would take to break even, let alone profit? This hobby is a niche.
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Yeah I really think that's a myth many just perpetuate unknowingly to pretty much keep the Status Quo. If there isn't any money in it why the hell do China and Russia still make tubes......

All I'm saying is it's pretty lazy on the part of the music industry as a whole when it comes to this issue......


Obviously this isn't ideal no, the only tubes worth a damn we can have today are made in Russia/China...... and Im not getting JJ/Slovakian garbage tubes at that point I'd just go 100% digital. There has to be alternatives and viable means of other sources of tubes. Otherwise I mean people can keep saying this and that and be proud of making shit here in America....... but not really because it entirely depends in someway on countries that aren't exactly Americas best friend like China/Russia and junk made in Slovakia at the JJ factory.



IMO it's just lazy and the music industry needs to find other viable means to produce tubes outside of garbage being made in Slovakia/JJ or the tubes made in Russia/China.
 
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Anyways meant to post that in my tube thread but yeah....... My point being these things are not that complicated to make and the technology isn't beyond them being made in other places outside of China/Russia or Slovakia. They are practically just coke bottles with metal bits and filaments in them.......

It's not exactly an Nvdia/TSMC chip.
 
The~Kid said:
Yeah I really think that's a myth many just perpetuate unknowingly to pretty much keep the Status Quo. If there isn't any money in it why the hell do China and Russia still make tubes......

All I'm saying is it's pretty lazy on the part of the music industry as a whole when it comes to this issue......


Obviously this isn't ideal no, the only tubes worth a damn we can have today are made in Russia/China...... and Im not getting JJ/Slovakian garbage tubes at that point I'd just go 100% digital. There has to be alternatives and viable means of other sources of tubes. Otherwise I mean people can keep saying this and that and be proud of making shit here in America....... but not really because it entirely depends in someway on countries that aren't exactly Americas best friend like China/Russia and junk made in Slovakia at the JJ factory.



IMO it's just lazy and the music industry needs to find other viable means to produce tubes outside of garbage being made in Slovakia/JJ or the tubes made in Russia/China.
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Except it's not a myth. They produce them because they use them and much of the tooling and factories already exist. The entire worldwide market on audio tubes is around $4m a year with the bulk going to amp manufactures, not end users. An investor expects profits in 3 years. That wouldn't happen if one manufacture had 100% of the market. Look at new comers in Korea who charge hundreds of $ for a single tube. There's a reason.

The~Kid said:
Anyways meant to post that in my tube thread but yeah....... My point being these things are not that complicated to make and the technology isn't beyond them being made in other places outside of China/Russia or Slovakia. They are practically just coke bottles with metal bits and filaments in them.......

It's not exactly an Nvdia/TSMC chip.
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Foundries are expensive, but the manufacturing of microchips is less complicated(once things are in place) than valve tubes.
 
NowYou'rePlayingWithPower said:
Except it's not a myth. They produce them because they use them and much of the tooling and factories already exist. The entire worldwide market on audio tubes is around $4m a year with the bulk going to amp manufactures, not end users. An investor expects profits in 3 years. That wouldn't happen if one manufacture had 100% of the market. Look at new comers in Korea who charge hundreds of $ for a single tube. There's a reason.



Foundries are expensive, but the manufacturing of microchips is less complicated(once things are in place) than valve tubes.
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It's not less complicated to make modern Nvdia/TSMC chips than some outdated old technology from the 40s......

I'm sorry but no. If China/Russia/Slovakia can do it we can do it better here in America or in Mexico, India or Vietnam etc etc and Chinese/Russian/Slovakian tubes shouldn't be the only viable options in 2025.
 
The~Kid said:
It's not less complicated to make modern Nvdia/TSMC chips than some outdated old technology from the 40s......

I'm sorry but no. If China/Russia/Slovakia can do it we can do it better here in America or in Mexico, India or Vietnam etc etc and Chinese/Russian/Slovakian tubes shouldn't be the only viable options in 2025.
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Do you know how microchips are made? I'm sorry, but yes. No one said they couldn't be made here. What was said is that there is no $ in it.
 
NowYou'rePlayingWithPower said:
Do you know how microchips are made? I'm sorry, but yes. No one said they couldn't be made here. What was said is that there is no $ in it.
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Not exactly....... but I do know that the margins of error are much much lower and QC on something like an Nvdia/TSMC are much much tighter than anything made in 40s or 100+ years ago meaning its more complicated to make IMO.

There is money in it apparently though...... this is why China/Russia/Slovakia make them. And maybe not here but why not Mexico, India, Vietnam etc etc. Like I'm saying it's not that complicated compared to modern day chips and it's pretty lazy the music industry as a whole hasn't found other viable ways to make tubes.


So we are just forced to buy tubes from countries not friendly to us in China/Russia or buy garbage tubes from Slovakia...... it isn't exactly responsible and pretty lazy IMO and I mean how long is that sustainable for?
 
The~Kid said:
Not exactly....... but I do know that the margins of error are much much lower and QC on something like an Nvdia/TSMC are much much tighter than anything made in 40s or 100+ years ago.

There is money in it apparently though...... this is why China/Russia/Slovakia make them. And maybe not here but why not Mexico, India, Vietnam etc etc. Like I'm saying it's not that complicated compared to modern day chips and it's pretty lazy the music industry as a whole hasn't found other viable ways to make tubes.
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Well, since apparently there's money in it based on your vast research, I can only assume it's a conspiracy and has nothing at all to do with the fact that it costs tens of millions to open a factory and would take decades to recoup or that both of those countries heavily use tubes in military applications to this day. 🤷‍♀️
 
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