How could this happen ?

[SatanicPanic]

It’s correlated to an overabundance of criminals and a lack of effective punitive consequences.

And you didn’t answer my question.

You're right, I didn't. I think the punishment for having a stolen gun or a felon using a gun should be severe. I am not against punishing violent criminals. I'm also in favor of restoring rights to (genuinely) reformed ex-cons on a case by case basis.

I stand by my point that we have far too many guns and they are too easy to obtain. We're not trying to fix that problem at all.

 

[Floyd Eye]

You're right, I didn't. I think the punishment for having a stolen gun or a felon using a gun should be severe. I am not against punishing violent criminals. I'm also in favor of restoring rights to (genuinely) reformed ex-cons on a case by case basis.

I stand by my point that we have far too many guns and they are too easy to obtain. We're not trying to fix that problem at all.

That’s because it’s not actually the problem. It’s just your uninformed opinion.


Have you ever bought a gun ? Legally I mean ? It’s not particularly easy. What would be more accurate is “ we have too many illegal guns”. Which goes right back to the problem of controlling crime and criminals.

 

[SatanicPanic]

That’s because it’s not actually the problem. It’s just your uninformed opinion.


Have you ever bought a gun ? Legally I mean ? It’s not particularly easy. What would be more accurate is “ we have too many illegal guns”. Which goes right back to the problem of controlling crime and criminals.

No, I have never bought a gun. I've thought about it a few times but always decided against it.

You say I'm uninformed, well lay it on me. You stated what you think the problem is so what's a solution that would result in meaningful change?

 

[Floyd Eye]

No, I have never bought a gun. I've thought about it a few times but always decided against it.

You say I'm uninformed, well lay it on me. You stated what you think the problem is so what's a solution that would result in meaningful change?

You’re clearly uninformed if you think it’s easy to get a gun legally. Especially for a felon. Which 90+% of all murderers are.

 

[Floyd Eye]

You’re also clearly buying into easily debunked anti gun talking points and statistics. i.e “ uninformed”.

 

[SatanicPanic]

You’re clearly uninformed if you think it’s easy to get a gun legally. Especially for a felon. Which 90+% of all murderers are.

Did I specify it was too easy to get a gun legally? No. I said guns are too easy to obtain by the wrong people. There's a difference in those two statements. Dang dude, I even asked for your opinion on what to do about it.

If you think all stats are corrupt that's on you.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Did I specify it was too easy to get a gun legally? No. I said guns are too easy to obtain by the wrong people. There's a difference in those two statements. Dang dude, I even asked for your opinion on what to do about it.

If you think all stats are corrupt that's on you.

Not all. Just the ones that you get from anti gun groups and their willing accomplices in the MSM.

And no shit it’s too easy for criminals to get guns. If they didn’t have guns do you think they’d straighten up and fly right ? Do you think making it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns makes it harder for criminals to get guns ? Do you think maybe actually incarcerating ALL people for committing gun crimes might help ? Do you think the fact that if you take 15-19 year old black males out of the equation the so called US “ gun violence epidemic” disappears might be indicative of a more focused approach to the problem being a better solution ? Do you think the people from the Brady campaign and these other “ gun safety” groups feeding stats and stories to the legacy media are actually interested in solving the problem or do you think they are more than willing to lie and mislead in order to make gun laws ( which as you know, only affect the law abiding) much more strict ?

 

[SatanicPanic]

Not all. Just the ones that you get from anti gun groups and their willing accomplices in the MSM.

And no shit it’s too easy for criminals to get guns. If they didn’t have guns do you think they’d straighten up and fly right ? Do you think making it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns makes it harder for criminals to get guns ? Do you think maybe actually incarcerating ALL people for committing gun crimes might help ? Do you think the fact that if you take 15-19 year old black males out of the equation the so called US “ gun violence epidemic” disappears might be indicative of a more focused approach to the problem being a better solution ? Do you think the people from the Brady campaign and these other “ gun safety” groups feeding stats and stories to the legacy media are actually interested in solving the problem or do you think they are more than willing to lie and mislead in order to make gun laws ( which as you know, only affect the law abiding) much more strict ?

Lot to unpack. For like the third time, I am in favor of gun ownership. I don't formulate opinions based on anti gun groups or the MSM (which includes Fox, btw).

If they didn’t have guns do you think they’d straighten up and fly right ?
No, but they would have less opportunity to commit gun violence.

Do you think making it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns makes it harder for criminals to get guns ?
I never said we should make it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns. I said we should reduce the overall number of guns available to try and ensure law abiding citizens are the ones that get them.

Do you think maybe actually incarcerating ALL people for committing gun crimes might help ?
Yes.

Do you think the fact that if you take 15-19 year old black males out of the equation the so called US “ gun violence epidemic” disappears might be indicative of a more focused approach to the problem being a better solution ?
Gun violence should be treated as a societal ill. If you want to make it based on race then you should think about why you feel that way. Black people are also disproportionately victims of gun violence BTW.

Do you think the people from the Brady campaign and these other “ gun safety” groups feeding stats and stories to the legacy media are actually interested in solving the problem or do you think they are more than willing to lie and mislead in order to make gun laws ( which as you know, only affect the law abiding) much more strict ?
I can't speak to the motivations of the Brady campaign. But, I could ask you the same thing. Do you think gun manufacturers care at all about reducing gun violence or do they spend millions of dollars lobbying Congress to prevent any changes or reasonable restrictions whatsoever?

 

[Floyd Eye]

Lot to unpack. For like the third time, I am in favor of gun ownership. I don't formulate opinions based on anti gun groups or the MSM (which includes Fox, btw).

If they didn’t have guns do you think they’d straighten up and fly right ?
No, but they would have less opportunity to commit gun violence.

Do you think making it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns makes it harder for criminals to get guns ?
I never said we should make it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns. I said we should reduce the overall number of guns available to try and ensure law abiding citizens are the ones that get them.

Do you think maybe actually incarcerating ALL people for committing gun crimes might help ?
Yes.

Do you think the fact that if you take 15-19 year old black males out of the equation the so called US “ gun violence epidemic” disappears might be indicative of a more focused approach to the problem being a better solution ?
Gun violence should be treated as a societal ill. If you want to make it based on race then you should think about why you feel that way. Black people are also disproportionately victims of gun violence BTW.

Do you think the people from the Brady campaign and these other “ gun safety” groups feeding stats and stories to the legacy media are actually interested in solving the problem or do you think they are more than willing to lie and mislead in order to make gun laws ( which as you know, only affect the law abiding) much more strict ?
I can't speak to the motivations of the Brady campaign. But, I could ask you the same thing. Do you think gun manufacturers care at all about reducing gun violence or do they spend millions of dollars lobbying Congress to prevent any changes or reasonable restrictions whatsoever?

Disproportionately victims of gun violence ? They are shooting each other. You act as if the gun is the perpetrator and is racist. I don't "feel" anyway. Those are the facts.

Gun violence for starters is another made up term like "Assault weapon" and "Mass shooting". Violence is a societal ill and it OVERWHELMINGLY is perpetrated by and affects young, urban, black males. Has fuck all to do with guns. "Reducing the number of guns", which is an impossibility without unconstitutionally taking them from law abiding citizens, is the kind of lip service lazy, politically correct politicians throw around to cover for the fact that their woke crime policies like no cash bail and "Gun court" drive violent crime. If you had said "reducing the number of illegal guns on the street" you would be on to something. But you still aren't quite there. We need to reduce the number of predator mother fuckers with no regard for life who commit violent crimes, with or without guns. Cars kill infinitely more people than guns, but I don't hear you saying we need to reduce the number of cars on the street.

The restrictions on gun owners are already well past 'Reasonable" and have long ago surpassed what is actually allowed by the constitution. Name a more heavily regulated industry. You would know that already, but you actually don't have a fucking clue how regulated it is, clearly. You listen to some shit on the news or from whoever is feeding you this bullshit and assume there aren't already more than reasonable restrictions in place. Name another constitutional right with more restrictions. Name another totally legal product that is more heavily regulated. And you're being disingenuous when you say you have no clue about the motivation of anti-gun groups. Either that or you're fucking retarded. You don't need to be a member of the David Hogg fan club to know there are groups who's intentions are to criminalize gun possession by civilians. Kamala, who I guarantee you voted for, is on video more than once saying the 2A doesn't apply to individuals. So is Hillary, and Obama. If you're going to have conversations about "Gun violence" it might be prudent to at least know what proponents and opponents say and do about it. Pfizer alone spends more money lobbying congress than all gun manufacturers put together and those cock suckers develop drugs with taxpayer funding and then turn around and sell them back to the taxpayers who funded it at a 1000% markup.

At any rate the actual numbers don't jive. It's hyped up by anti gun politicians, activists and the media. There is a whole lot of other shit that kills way more people than guns, but none of you " We just want reasonable gun safety laws" mother fuckers seem to give a fuck about any of that shit.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Can we just go ahead an ban guns already so we can start focusing on getting zombie knives and ninja swords off the streets like other countries?

 

[rsm]

There is no debate that the US has an epidemic of gun violence even when you take into account the population differences with other countries that are reasonably armed. That is a fact.

2022 Austria deaths from gun violence: 0.2 per 100k citizens.
2021 US deaths from gun violence: 4.31 per 100k citizens.

Once you take out the "scary" mass shooting words and look at just the data some things become clear. The US has vastly too many guns that are too easy to obtain by the wrong people who do bad things. It seems to me that reducing the number of guns available and making sure they only get in the hands of law abiding citizens is the only solution. That's an argument for both gun control AND gun ownership. I'm in favor of gun ownership. But we also have too many guns.

 

[rsm]

Crime isn't caused by guns. It's correlated to an overabundance of them. And, to the uniquely violent nature of Americans.

low trust society, large influx of invaders creating rapid growth of heterogeneous population with low assimilation...

 

[Floyd Eye]

low trust society, large influx of invaders creating rapid growth of heterogeneous population with low assimilation...

In our country it’s primarily a result of the failure of the black community to raise their children without the culture of drugs and violence that thoroughly permeates inner city black youth in America. They could actually use some help but the people who claim the moral high ground are in fact the ones who have not only failed to help them, but pretty much insured they would fail.

A big fucking problem in this country is all the people who won’t address facts because it is optically unpleasant. Two inescapable facts about violent crime in the US. It is statistically speaking almost exclusive to the black community and democrat run cities. As long as people are too stupid to admit and address those facts absolutely nothing will ever change.

We have black folks out here in the sticks. They are our friends and neighbors and valuable, contributing members of our communities. They aren’t running around behaving like animals and you don’t hear any of them making unfounded excuses about being victims. Like everyone else here they do their part to make it a nice place to live.

 

[Findthetone1]

Cars kill infinitely more people than guns, but I don't hear you saying we need to reduce the number of cars on the street.

We definately need to stop the "Car Violence"
I'll take it one further. Ther are over 250,000 medical malpractice deaths in the US per year.
Guess we'd better stop the "Doctor Violence" as well.

 

[Monkey Man]

In our country it’s primarily a result of the failure of the black community to raise their children without the culture of drugs and violence that thoroughly permeates inner city black youth in America. They could actually use some help but the people who claim the moral high ground are in fact the ones who have not only failed to help them, but pretty much insured they would fail.

A big fucking problem in this country is all the people who won’t address facts because it is optically unpleasant. Two inescapable facts about violent crime in the US. It is statistically speaking almost exclusive to the black community and democrat run cities. As long as people are too stupid to admit and address those facts absolutely nothing will ever change.

We have black folks out here in the sticks. They are our friends and neighbors and valuable, contributing members of our communities. They aren’t running around behaving like animals and you don’t hear any of them making unfounded excuses about being victims. Like everyone else here they do their part to make it a nice place to live.

I agree with Charlie Kirk:

Black dudes are impregnating and moving on to knock up others in record numbers.
The mothers then become hooked on the gubment's teet.

Just way too many single-parent households. Mums are overwhelmed and can't monitor or control their kids who inevitably succumb to the lowest common denominator.

IMHO

 

[SatanicPanic]

Disproportionately victims of gun violence ? They are shooting each other. You act as if the gun is the perpetrator and is racist. I don't "feel" anyway. Those are the facts.

Gun violence for starters is another made up term like "Assault weapon" and "Mass shooting". Violence is a societal ill and it OVERWHELMINGLY is perpetrated by and affects young, urban, black males. Has fuck all to do with guns. "Reducing the number of guns", which is an impossibility without unconstitutionally taking them from law abiding citizens, is the kind of lip service lazy, politically correct politicians throw around to cover for the fact that their woke crime policies like no cash bail and "Gun court" drive violent crime. If you had said "reducing the number of illegal guns on the street" you would be on to something. But you still aren't quite there. We need to reduce the number of predator mother fuckers with no regard for life who commit violent crimes, with or without guns. Cars kill infinitely more people than guns, but I don't hear you saying we need to reduce the number of cars on the street.

The restrictions on gun owners are already well past 'Reasonable" and have long ago surpassed what is actually allowed by the constitution. Name a more heavily regulated industry. You would know that already, but you actually don't have a fucking clue how regulated it is, clearly. You listen to some shit on the news or from whoever is feeding you this bullshit and assume there aren't already more than reasonable restrictions in place. Name another constitutional right with more restrictions. Name another totally legal product that is more heavily regulated. And you're being disingenuous when you say you have no clue about the motivation of anti-gun groups. Either that or you're fucking retarded. You don't need to be a member of the David Hogg fan club to know there are groups who's intentions are to criminalize gun possession by civilians. Kamala, who I guarantee you voted for, is on video more than once saying the 2A doesn't apply to individuals. So is Hillary, and Obama. If you're going to have conversations about "Gun violence" it might be prudent to at least know what proponents and opponents say and do about it. Pfizer alone spends more money lobbying congress than all gun manufacturers put together and those cock suckers develop drugs with taxpayer funding and then turn around and sell them back to the taxpayers who funded it at a 1000% markup.

At any rate the actual numbers don't jive. It's hyped up by anti gun politicians, activists and the media. There is a whole lot of other shit that kills way more people than guns, but none of you " We just want reasonable gun safety laws" mother fuckers seem to give a fuck about any of that shit.

Let's say for the sake of the argument I've come around. @Floyd Eye has correctly identified all the causes of criminality and violence in the US and we must loosen any and all restrictions on firearms. What now? What practical, real world solutions will address the issue? I'll put one caveat on your answer: it must include specific steps to divert citizens from crime. It can't just be "lock up everyone".

And don't call me retarded. I haven't disrespected you in that way.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Let's say for the sake of the argument I've come around. @Floyd Eye has correctly identified all the causes of criminality and violence in the US and we must loosen any and all restrictions on firearms. What now? What practical, real world solutions will address the issue? I'll put one caveat on your answer: it must include specific steps to divert citizens from crime. It can't just be "lock up everyone".

And don't call me retarded. I haven't disrespected you in that way.

The base answer is pretty simple in my eyes. Instill positive family/community values and ethics into youths starting at a young age.

I can't lay out a step by step plan for this because strategies and implementation would vary depending on the demographic being addressed. I can give some overall ideas off the top of my head. And keep in mind this wouldn't be an overnight solution. It would have to be a cultural shift that could take a generation or two.

• Fostering positive traditions
• Open lines of communication amongst family & community
• Positive role models
• Better and positive education
• Consistency of positive actions
• Awareness of negativity & consequences of actions
• Availability of positive activities

As far as the immediate concern, it would need to be a focus on penalties for violent crimes. It shouldn't matter if a gun or a large stick was used; a violent crime is a violent crime and the penalties should be the same.

This comes from a mindset of if there were no guns people would default to knives. If no knives then clubs, if no clubs then rocks, if no rocks then fists. If a person is dead set on committing a violent crime; or even commits one in the heat of the moment, weapon of choice isn't going to matter. They'll find a way. Trying to regulate the "weapon" just spirals down to the next lowest common denominator without addressing the root cause. We're seeing that already like in my earlier somewhat joking post about zombie knives (which were real headlines from other countries that have strict gun laws). It's like treating the symptoms instead of curing the disease.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Let's say for the sake of the argument I've come around. @Floyd Eye has correctly identified all the causes of criminality and violence in the US and we must loosen any and all restrictions on firearms. What now? What practical, real world solutions will address the issue? I'll put one caveat on your answer: it must include specific steps to divert citizens from crime. It can't just be "lock up everyone".

And don't call me retarded. I haven't disrespected you in that way.

So you're saying you were being disingenuous ? I didn't technically call you retarded. And it was really used as an expression for effect. but...

You're right though. I apologize.


The idea that in order to keep politicians from throwing spaghetti at the wall while subsequently trampling on everyone's constitutional rights I must solve the crime problem for them is kinda stupid.

I'll take a brief stab at a few ideas though.

The underlying causes of inner city violent crime are complex. To actually address them you have to be willing to let liars and woke idiots call you a racist. Hence why most politicians lack the integrity to actually address the problem. They need votes. Votes they won't get in blue cities if they even admit the FACT that the crime problem is overwhelmingly in the black community.

I could sit here and list all the things I think contribute to the reasons why young black males end up on the streets, in gangs, with no regard for other people's lives and very little for their own. Poverty, single parent homes, decades and decades of democrat politicians making excuses for them and paying them off to pretend to be victims, actual racism, shitty public education system, lack of employment opportunities and on and on.

It's easier for politicians to convince them their problems are all created by someone else and then run their political campaigns on promises to give them free shit, which without exception always equates to some paltry bullshit no one can live on anyway. Kinda like the reservation system. The government promises to take care of you and your family and then once a year they give you about 6 months worth of spoiled beef and bug infested grain. In my opinion what needs to happen is the government, at all levels, needs to truly be color blind. Regardless of race or background people need to be held accountable for their own actions and responsible for their own situations. Enforce the law. Take care of the sick and the elderly, everyone else needs to get a job or go hungry. It's really that simple.

 

[SatanicPanic]

So you're saying you were being disingenuous ? I didn't technically call you retarded. And it was really used as an expression for effect. but...

You're right though. I apologize.

Thx, all good.

The idea that in order to keep politicians from throwing spaghetti at the wall while subsequently trampling on everyone's constitutional rights I must solve the crime problem for them is kinda stupid.

I'll take a brief stab at a few ideas though.

The underlying causes of inner city violent crime are complex. To actually address them you have to be willing to let liars and woke idiots call you a racist. Hence why most politicians lack the integrity to actually address the problem. They need votes. Votes they won't get in blue cities if they even admit the FACT that the crime problem is overwhelmingly in the black community.

I could sit here and list all the things I think contribute to the reasons why young black males end up on the streets, in gangs, with no regard for other people's lives and very little for their own. Poverty, single parent homes, decades and decades of democrat politicians making excuses for them and paying them off to pretend to be victims, actual racism, shitty public education system, lack of employment opportunities and on and on.

It's easier for politicians to convince them their problems are all created by someone else and then run their political campaigns on promises to give them free shit, which without exception always equates to some paltry bullshit no one can live on anyway. Kinda like the reservation system. The government promises to take care of you and your family and then once a year they give you about 6 months worth of spoiled beef and bug infested grain. In my opinion what needs to happen is the government, at all levels, needs to truly be color blind. Regardless of race or background people need to be held accountable for their own actions and responsible for their own situations. Enforce the law. Take care of the sick and the elderly, everyone else needs to get a job or go hungry. It's really that simple.

I agree with a lot of this, although i do think crime in rural America is important to look at too. Poverty affects everyone.

Thanks for taking the time to answer. We could spend our whole lives waiting for politicians to solve these complex problems. But, they are also kinda the only ones who truly can. Pretty much why I'm dissociating myself from politics these days.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Thx, all good.



I agree with a lot of this, although i do think crime in rural America is important to look at too. Poverty affects everyone.

Thanks for taking the time to answer. We could spend our whole lives waiting for politicians to solve these complex problems. But, they are also kinda the only ones who truly can. Pretty much why I'm dissociating myself from politics these days.

Crime everywhere should be addressed, but violent crime rates in rural areas are nothing compared to the major cities. And generally violent crimes in rural areas are actually investigated and solved. The clearance rate for murders in St. Louis last year was 55%. The county I live in has been 100% almost every year for as long as I can remember.