V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
The 57 just plain works great.
He's def getting a room sound off those PZM's after a 2nd listen, it's a little boomy on the bottom. Maybe it was the boots!
He's def getting a room sound off those PZM's after a 2nd listen, it's a little boomy on the bottom. Maybe it was the boots!
7704A
Well-known member
Ok, it occurs to me that I shouldn't be comparing stereo single-source tracks vs panned doubled mono tracks since the panned mono imitates two sound sources wide apart whereas the stereo single-source track is just a single source down the center. What I should do is compare centered stereo image tracks vs centered mono tracks. If I want to compare a panned mono track with the 57 to the PZMs, then I should also double track with the stereo array, but each time rotating the mic array left or right to do the panning at the source. I also sorted out issues with tracks sounding different outside my DAW than they did inside. I think that came down to mono tracks getting doubled into left and right channels without re-normalizing the audio to maintain the same level as in the DAW, resulting in a 3dB boost in volume.
So, here is a centered stereo pair recording with the PZMs and a panned mono track with the 57. They've both been LUFS matched so they should have approximately equal loudness, and I fixed the issue with exports screwing that up.
So, here is a centered stereo pair recording with the PZMs and a panned mono track with the 57. They've both been LUFS matched so they should have approximately equal loudness, and I fixed the issue with exports screwing that up.
Last edited:
7704A
Well-known member
Just took receipt of the PS100 I bought from @GrimTrigger, and used the line out to blast the Marshall into an Eminence EM12 IR through my MSP5 monitors without killing the neighborhood cats. Not quite my ideal tone being an SM57 capture, and an EVM12L (clone) instead of a 12S, but still good I think. Phone recording.
7704A
Well-known member
Hmm, ok, now the amp is making noises similar to when the input jack had a bad connection, and has some volume drop-outs. Maybe it's finally time to perform a more thorough service check-up. The low input on 10 through the PS into my combo cab sounds fantastic though, enough drive to do lighter stuff (or play in a worship team) and cleans up beautifully with playing dynamics.
7704A
Well-known member
Hmm... Where were we? Right, not using 57's. Haven't had the volume issues again, and just today finally built a PZM wedge stereo mic array. Pro: it sounds pretty realistic. Con: realistically, sticking your head right in front of a speaker cabinet isn't that pleasant. Beaming is biting, I tweak for the sound up where I'm standing or sitting, but it's much brighter right in front of the 2x12. So that'll need some tweaking. But, the big takeaway right now is how realistic things sound, in particular ambient stuff. There's a door closing at the end of the track and even knowing it's a recording it feels like it's in the room with me. Neato! Riff ripped whole-sale from @Mr Mansfield and played poorly.
Anyone else feel like that door slam is in the room with them when listening back in stereo? Comments on tone? Complaints for the complaints bin
?
Anyone else feel like that door slam is in the room with them when listening back in stereo? Comments on tone? Complaints for the complaints bin
?
LPMojoGL
Well-known member
Hmm... Where were we? Right, not using 57's. Haven't had the volume issues again, and just today finally built a PZM wedge stereo mic array. Pro: it sounds pretty realistic. Con: realistically, sticking your head right in front of a speaker cabinet isn't that pleasant. Beaming is biting, I tweak for the sound up where I'm standing or sitting, but it's much brighter right in front of the 2x12. So that'll need some tweaking. But, the big takeaway right now is how realistic things sound, in particular ambient stuff. There's a door closing at the end of the track and even knowing it's a recording it feels like it's in the room with me. Neato! Riff ripped whole-sale from @Mr Mansfield and played poorly.
Anyone else feel like that door slam is in the room with them when listening back in stereo? Comments on tone? Complaints for the complaints bin
That sounds nasty in the best way. Love it.
7704A
Well-known member
Listening back, I like it a lot more now than I did last night. Still not quite ideal in my book, but it's definitely it's own thing.
7704A
Well-known member
The semester's keeping me busy so I haven't posted much, but I've been amassing a bunch of clips where the only thing changed is various speaker, cabinet, and mic setup parameters as I move the Force 12's and XXX speakers around, with the planned final configuration being the Force 12's in the XXX 4x12 running as a "detuned" 2x12. At some point I'll have to post those. BUT....
Right now I'm posting 'cause I just removed the cap from the mid pot wiper to ground that is stock on the combos, but absent on the heads.
I have yet to make recordings and compare back-to-back with prior recordings, but my first impression is that it's staying this way. More definition, presence, high-mid grind, various riffs sound more "right", etc...
While doing that, I discovered that the Marshall factory was apparently a fan of lick 'n stick style soldering. I took a few minutes to dress the wire ends a bit and upgrade slightly to a poke 'n pray solder joint until I can take the time to make something more mechanically secure. I wonder how many other joints in the amp are like that, but then it's lasted 43 years so probably not an immediate priority.
I also discovered that the mids pot is 22k, not the 25k which is "to-spec". I guess the factory ran out that day, or whoever assembled my amp needed glasses. I wonder how many other quirks like that are in here?
Also, it looks like my unit has a hot-shield "mod" (but stock from the factory?) on the first 12AX7:
That's all for now. When I post the clips for all the speaker and mic permutations that'll probably be it's own thread.
Right now I'm posting 'cause I just removed the cap from the mid pot wiper to ground that is stock on the combos, but absent on the heads.
I have yet to make recordings and compare back-to-back with prior recordings, but my first impression is that it's staying this way. More definition, presence, high-mid grind, various riffs sound more "right", etc...
While doing that, I discovered that the Marshall factory was apparently a fan of lick 'n stick style soldering. I took a few minutes to dress the wire ends a bit and upgrade slightly to a poke 'n pray solder joint until I can take the time to make something more mechanically secure. I wonder how many other joints in the amp are like that, but then it's lasted 43 years so probably not an immediate priority.
I also discovered that the mids pot is 22k, not the 25k which is "to-spec". I guess the factory ran out that day, or whoever assembled my amp needed glasses. I wonder how many other quirks like that are in here?
Also, it looks like my unit has a hot-shield "mod" (but stock from the factory?) on the first 12AX7:
That's all for now. When I post the clips for all the speaker and mic permutations that'll probably be it's own thread.
J
JDs Couch
Well-known member
Heavy as fuck.
7704A
Well-known member
Yeah, took TSA by surprise when they went to scan the chassis in the bluevoodo headshell I flew it in.
7704A
Well-known member
Alright, a few clips now that I have the cap out of the circuit. It happened to be well-timed, since I recently realized that DiMartini is probably pinching the chords in @DanTravis62's favorite riff, so now I had more upper mids to try it out. So that's the first thing I recorded, me pinching the living daylights outta Lay It Down, poorly. 57 on the edge of the dust cap, cabinet is a detuned 4x12 with the EV Force 12's.
I've been using a riff copped from @Bxlxaxkxe as the benchmark for all my permutations, so I also recorded a track of that using my looper pedal. Same cabinet and mic setup as with Lay It Down. Here are the before and after tracks:
Mids cap intact:
No cap:
I think I'm keeping the cap out of the circuit.
I've been using a riff copped from @Bxlxaxkxe as the benchmark for all my permutations, so I also recorded a track of that using my looper pedal. Same cabinet and mic setup as with Lay It Down. Here are the before and after tracks:
Mids cap intact:
No cap:
I think I'm keeping the cap out of the circuit.
Last edited:
LPMojoGL
Well-known member
Liking the sound you're getting out of that amp! Nice grind. Removing the cap opened up the sound, dig it.
Really, can't beat that sound for anything rock.
Really, can't beat that sound for anything rock.
7704A
Well-known member
After watching the recent Michael Nielson video on 12L's, and hearing his remarks on the differences between it and the V30, I spent some time futzing with EQ. Ended getting a tone I really like with some unconventional EQ choices, relative to Celestion cabs. Treble at 10, Mids at 4, Bass at 5, Presence at 7. As is tradition, Pre-amp at 7, Master on 10. Fryette PS-100 to knock the volume down, Presence and Resonance on 0, reactive load switches set in the middle.
For mic'ing, I used the PZM wedge shoved right up against the cab, angled to have the front edge of the wedge parallel to the slanted top-half of the baffle, with the mics slid the same distance along the wedge parallel to the baffle as the dust-caps, and 6 inches from the front edge for pseudo-ORTF, mimicing the experience of sticking your head there. I routed the mic signals through an EQ bus to flatten out their high-frequency rise. Results are extremely close to what I hear in the room in front of the cab. The cab is, of course, my peavey XXX slant 4x12 with the two bottom speakers removed (to "detune" the cab) and the two top speakers replaced by EV Force 12's, in parallel.
Final thing I added, mitchell donut beam blockers. I'll have to post some before/after clips, but they go a long way towards reducing the directionality of the cab and killing the unpleasant beam, so after testing I've left them on to improve the playing experience in the room. I dialed in the amp with them, so left them on when recording to capture the same sound.
Enough yapping. Clip:
Hearing some weird high-end stuff going on, which is the only real complaint I have. Wondering if the circuit isn't quite stable at these settings. Maybe lead dress and ground scheme is the next thing I address.
For mic'ing, I used the PZM wedge shoved right up against the cab, angled to have the front edge of the wedge parallel to the slanted top-half of the baffle, with the mics slid the same distance along the wedge parallel to the baffle as the dust-caps, and 6 inches from the front edge for pseudo-ORTF, mimicing the experience of sticking your head there. I routed the mic signals through an EQ bus to flatten out their high-frequency rise. Results are extremely close to what I hear in the room in front of the cab. The cab is, of course, my peavey XXX slant 4x12 with the two bottom speakers removed (to "detune" the cab) and the two top speakers replaced by EV Force 12's, in parallel.
Final thing I added, mitchell donut beam blockers. I'll have to post some before/after clips, but they go a long way towards reducing the directionality of the cab and killing the unpleasant beam, so after testing I've left them on to improve the playing experience in the room. I dialed in the amp with them, so left them on when recording to capture the same sound.
Enough yapping. Clip:
Hearing some weird high-end stuff going on, which is the only real complaint I have. Wondering if the circuit isn't quite stable at these settings. Maybe lead dress and ground scheme is the next thing I address.
Last edited:
