What Religion are You?

[VonBonfire]

Read about the "Saints of prisons" which included that priest and see what they went through for their faith before you bring this stuff into discussion like a know it all. Also, like I said, read about Justin Parvu and you'll find a pretty interesting detail there. Then expand on that. You will learn some history and some background about what following the right doctrine implies.

You're calling me a know it all but you wanted to post stuff about what the "true" church believes and is and then go debate-light when I bring up some points. You didn't have much to respond wtih, just a video in a language I don't speak. I'm not making up biblical narratives, you are, so some critique should be expected. If you had such a deep understanding of orthodoxy, you would be baptized orthodox. You claim to know more about it than me, which is fine, but what's your excuse/criticism that is mentally blocking you from doing so?

 

[Bad Brain]

You claim to know more about it than me, which is fine, but what's your excuse/criticism that is mentally blocking you from doing so?

His excuse is idiocy, be nice.

 

[VonBonfire]

Without getting bogged down with specifics, I'll just point out that we would not have the eastern/western churches and million denominations if not for biblical disagreement. You think the orthodox church has it right, they think the opposite.

Except all those other churches broke from orthodoxy in heresy so they have no footing. Either there is one faith or it's a load of crap. And a choose-your-own-adventure protestant christian world does not reflect that truth with their endless speculations and disagreements.

 

[VonBonfire]

There is no "true" church in that sense. The church is no that important. So things like "you're not an orthodox" is just silly. What's important is faith. Yes, of course, following a church means you'll be part of some ceremonies and you'll probably end up believing some stuff which is indeed important but the rituals themselves, the commentaries, the adjacent lecture is in the end not that important.

But your own actions in baptizing your daughter orthodox testify to the falsehood you are suggesting. The orthodox church IS the visible church. And you deny holy communion or baptism as not important i.e "rituals"?

John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

 

[VonBonfire]

My objections with other denominations is basically the woke culture and avoiding hard subjects to not offend. For example playing "christian rock music" in the church, women priests, the rainbow flag in the church etc.

Yeah but you're not putting two and two together. Orthodoxy is the VISIBLE church not going along with that agenda driven nonsense. Why? They keep the faith of the apostles, the original, true faith. There are some other churches doing the same but it doesn't cut across the whole denomination like orthodoxy. As the day gets later I full expect the infiltrators to work inside orthodoxy as well. And indeed there are some woke clergy in the greek world. But orthodoxy is the visible body, and the member making up that body will self regulate heretics coming into the church though it may take time and suffering.

 

[VonBonfire]

Bro. All these ceremonies are traditions and basically live action depictions of some things written in the Bible as the Holy Parents understood them. And not only them. They changed along the way.
Does it write anywhere in the Bible about how to take bread and turn in the body of Christ? If so, show me where. Otherwise that quote means something more than the literal understanding obviously.

Matthew 26 26

"And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body."

 

[Bad Brain]

Except all those other churches broke from orthodoxy in heresy so they have no footing.

When was "Orthodoxy" established? Where is the "Seal" from god or some objective sign they're right? And btw, which Orthodox church? There's one in Ethiopia that claims to be the orgional!

 

[Bad Brain]

Where in the scriptures does it say that orthodox priests are the only ones with the authority to determine what the scripture says?

 

[VonBonfire]

And how does that happen? How does a priest does that? What does blessing mean? Why is it dry square pieces of bread? Why is it infused with "holy water"? And how is that water made holy? What does holy mean, really?

You have an orthodox church or monastery in your area with fathers and possibly monks who are best able to answer those question more thoroughly if you are serious about finding out. There is no "dry bread" in communion. It's a fresh loaf. Even if it was dry, it goes into the wine and communion is given from a golden cup on a shared golden spoon, wine and bread mixed together.

 

[VonBonfire]

When was "Orthodoxy" established? Where is the "Seal" from god or some objective sign they're right? And btw, which Orthodox church? There's one in Ethiopia that claims to be the orgional!

The day of Pentecost, Acts 2.

The greek, russian, serbian, and romanian orthodox churches are in communion with each other. I think there are a few others but not sure exactly. But a believer could go to any of those churches and feel at home as well as receive communion. There are some heretical sects of orthodoxy like the newly broken away "ukrainian orthodox church", an obvious heresy motivated by politics.

 

[VonBonfire]

The answer is mistery.

Yes, correct, How the wine and bread is mystically transformed into the body and blood is a mystery.

 

[VonBonfire]

Where in the scriptures does it say that orthodox priests are the only ones with the authority to determine what the scripture says?

Matthrew, Mark, Luke, and John were the earliest orthodox priests so do the math there. They handed the faith down to the disciples who also were orthodox priests.

 

[Bad Brain]

Matthrew, Mark, Luke, and John were the earliest orthodox priests so do the math there. They handed the faith down to the disciples who also were orthodox priests.

That doesn't answer my question!

...Acts 2? Okay so where's the evidence of the lineage? The Catholic church claims Peter was the first catholic priest right?

 

[VonBonfire]

That doesn't answer my question!

...Acts 2? Okay so where's the evidence of the lineage? The Catholic church claims Peter was the first catholic priest right?

On Pentecost AD 33 the holy spirit descended and that is the lineage , Catholicism=orthodoxy. Roman catholicism isn't orthodoxy. It's heresy and broke away from orthodoxy in 1054 so this is where the great schism of churches began and look at what a mess it made. This is why it's said orhtodoxy is pre-denominational. It pre-dates any other version of christianity. It is the original church established by the apostles.

 

[VonBonfire]

That's not the only thing. I have many questions regarding these traditions. For example:
I've been to the monastery where Iustin Parvu ( the priest in the video ) is buried. I've seen a queue of people waiting to bow besides his grave to pray via/to him. That's a bit no, no as far as I'm concerned but it's allowed because there's this belief that man can sanctify someone and somehow when he dies he doesn't "sleep" but goes to heaven.

I'm not asking you to excuse or explain these things. Just pointing out some things which are purely human tradition and in some cases things you probably should not do.

As a continuation of my argument that tradition and some denomination related specifics are not what makes or breaks one's faith.

What's the problem? Do you have a deceased loved one whose grave you visit that causes you to think well of that person? Might you kneel at the gravesite? We reverence saints and holy people in orthodoxy out of respect for their contributions to the faith, often costing them their lives. We aspire to the holy, godly lives they have left an example with. It's not in worship, but in honor and reverence.

 

[Bad Brain]

On Pentecost AD 33 the holy spirit descended and that is the lineage , Catholicism=orthodoxy. Roman catholicism isn't orthodoxy. It's heresy and broke away from orthodoxy in 1054 so this is where the great schism of churches began and look at what a mess it made. This is why it's said orhtodoxy is pre-denominational. It pre-dates any other version of christianity. It is the original church established by the apostles.

There was much debate and evolution of church doctrine between then and the council of nicea. How can you claim there was a cohesive, orthodox church at that point? It seems simply an assertion.

 

[VonBonfire]

You don't know too many Orthodox people. It's not uncommon for Orthodox people to pray to a saint or Mary! Maybe "pray to" is not correct but they do invoke them in their prayers and ask them things.
That's different from paying your respects although even paying respects doesn't mean anything. Once they die people are earth.

Matthew 27:52-53 King James Version (KJV)and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

So we see they are with alive with Christ now and can intercede on our behalf. Reverence is different than worship.

 

[VonBonfire]

There was much debate and evolution of church doctrine between then and the council of nicea. How can you claim there was a cohesive, orthodox church at that point? It seems simply an assertion.

The priests were already ordained at the time of Christ, by Christ. Not much hard to understand about that IMO of course.

 

[VonBonfire]

That's a totally different thing than people asking things from dead people today.

No one is doing that in orthodoxy. It's just your false perception. I once held the same perception about the icons but the iconoclasts were dealt with centuries ago.

 

[VonBonfire]

Also The Bible says you should not make graven images -> icons
You should not repeat prayers -> you get to repeat random prayers which are not found in the BIble
Don't call anyone father but the Father -> the priest is called father.

There are many such things which I find weird. I already know the debunking on all of them.

So were the images found in the holy tabernacle also graven? The cherubs over the ark?

The bible also tells us to pray without ceasing, Thessalonians 5 17

Don't call anyone father? 1 Cor 4 15=Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

You're repeating typical protestant arguments that are completely full of holes when you actually take the scriptures as a whole.