Floyd Eye
Well-known member
No it don't. For the fiftieth time, the NRA and PEW and everyone else DOESN"T HAVE ACCESS TO 4473s. That's not even legal. It is based on polling. Jesus fucking christ.
S
Strandberg Junkie
Banned
member
It's like you dug into Pew just deep enough to get confirmation on polling and then stopped.
It's not a debate at that point.
Ben Waylin
Banned
Well-known member
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
This whole thing is predicated on the FACT that neither of you guys understand what data is available for consumption with regards to background checks and 4473 forms. None on the 4473. That leaves the background check. Which is only legally allowed to exist for 88 days and which pew cannot just ask the FBI nicely for. The FBI releases the total number, that's pretty much it.
So yeah, none of this has been debate since neither of you know what the fuck you are talking about.
JackTheBear
Well-known member
Bagel and Creamcheese
Banned
Well-known member
By the way, a poll provides statistics.
They are called inferential statistics. Read on if you dare.
https://www.math.arizona.edu/~jwatkins/505d/Lesson_12.pdf
And before you say since they're 'inferential' they are invalid, they're not. All stats have error margins. And polls do too. Simply ignoring polls is a mistake because they can provide good stats. Pew is one of the most respected pollsters out there.
Ok, I'm done.
They are called inferential statistics. Read on if you dare.
https://www.math.arizona.edu/~jwatkins/505d/Lesson_12.pdf
And before you say since they're 'inferential' they are invalid, they're not. All stats have error margins. And polls do too. Simply ignoring polls is a mistake because they can provide good stats. Pew is one of the most respected pollsters out there.
Ok, I'm done.
Beater
Banned
Well-known member
Do you think somebody does have access to them? Why do you think all those questions are on there? Just to make it take longer? Lol
S
Strandberg Junkie
Banned
member
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
See, this is how I know you are full of shit. If you ever filled one out you would know what questions were on there and you would also know it's a paper form that is stuffed in a filing box when you're done. The only way feds or cops can access it is to physically go to the store and pull the file.
And with that, I am done.
S
Strandberg Junkie
Banned
member
When you post something like this that is so blatently wrong it kinda dilutes the rest of what you say.
Picasso
Well-known member
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
Q11: What happens to the data provided on Form 4473?
Completed Forms 4473 are retained by the Federal firearms licensee (FFL). ATF does not, and never has, maintained an archive or other information repository on the race or ethnicity of firearm purchasers or licensees, and it has no intention to do so in the future. ATF may inspect individual Forms 4473 containing personally identifying information held by FFLs only for limited regulatory or law enforcement functions-specifically, during inspections, and in the course of investigations (for example, when tracing firearms linked to individual criminal investigations). Similarly, the FFL may use the demographic data to ensure proper identification or facilitate the background check process. There are some limited circumstances – for example when an FFL goes out of business – under which the Forms 4473 or information contained thereon is provided to ATF as required by statute. Even under these limited circumstances, ATF does not aggregate or centralize the demographic information contained on the form.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/atf-form-4473-faqs#Q11-4473
This is called showing your work. Instead of talking out of your ass. You should try it.
S
Strandberg Junkie
Banned
member
An ATF link is the last thing I'm gonna trust when it comes to telling me what the ATF can and can't do.
This place is conspiracy central. No way the ATF is being totally transparent here.
The form 4473 is just a data point. When performing a background check the data from the form
is entered into a central database to check for felonies, outstanding warrants, etc.
Think about that for a second.
This place is conspiracy central. No way the ATF is being totally transparent here.
The form 4473 is just a data point. When performing a background check the data from the form
is entered into a central database to check for felonies, outstanding warrants, etc.
Think about that for a second.
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Beater
Banned
Well-known member
Why would there be a form to fill out if no one looked at it? Pure silliness.
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
Two of my best friends are FFLs and even when presented with evidence straight from the horses mouth you two continue to argue.
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
Have you ever seen the info entered in an NICS check ? I have. It doesn't even contain what type of weapon you are buying. Much less your race or geopolitical data.
And again, the ATF DOES NOT have your 4473. That is kept on file AT THE FFL.
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
The only time the ATF gets 4473s is when an FFL goes out of business. When they come to the store to access it, say during a gun trace, they are not allowed to photograph it or remove it from the store.
I completely share your distrust of the ATF, I don't however think FFL holders are complicit in it, which they would have to be.
You two simply don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about.
I completely share your distrust of the ATF, I don't however think FFL holders are complicit in it, which they would have to be.
You two simply don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about.
Beater
Banned
Well-known member
There would be no need to fill out that sort of data for the sake of your dealer. Stop being naive.
S
Strandberg Junkie
Banned
member
They don't get the 4473s, they get the Acquisition and Disposition log which only contains partial info from the individual 4473s.
As long as we're crossing T's and dotting I's here.....
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
Donnie, my dad used to be an FFL, my uncle still is and two of my best friends are. And you are full of shit.
One thing I will give the lefties here, you guys have no problem looking foolish and doubling down when you've been proven wrong.
Peace out.
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