4x12 Back Panels

[SpiderWars]

Has anybody tried particle board vs MDF? I didn't really know the difference but apparently MDF is made with smaller particles and is quite a bit more dense. MDF on top.

 

[CrazyNutz]

-great thread crazy nuts, one of my favorite topics...

-about half of what your hearing as an improvement-(and its not a subtle either, is indeed the Birch ply, the other 50% is the thickness of the Birch ply.

Well, the whole cab is originally Birch ply (even the back panel). I like the particle board back panel better than the plywood back panel. It's really more tight and punchy, bigger bass, every chord, and note sounds nice and focused at high volumes.

It's very interesting as it seem's people find similar, or subjectively better results with birch ply backs over particle board backs.

Placebo effect, possibly? Admittedly, I may be the one suffering from it.

 

[CrazyNutz]

Has anybody tried particle board vs MDF? I didn't really know the difference but apparently MDF is made with smaller particles and is quite a bit more dense. MDF on top.

I had an ampeg cab back in the day, it had a MDF back. It sounded great. As to how it compares to particle, I might build a MDF back too.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Just my experience, but I've found the birch back panels to be livelier than the MDF/particle board back panels, but there may be a hair more bass to the MDF/particle board than birch.

I had a 68 slant cab I restored (a lot of work!), and it had more bass response/punch than any other slant I've ever had, and as much as a straight. It had the birch back panel, but extra bracing inside for the baffle.

I did have to reglue all of the corners inside, and fix a bunch of loose or stripped baffle board screws where they mounted in the baffle, though, too. After getting all that done, it was a monster sounding cab. Of course one of my clients heard it, offered me stupid money for it, and it lives in Canada now, where he still raves about it.

IMO, fixing the loose screws, and making sure the baffle/back panel/handle screws are all tight will add a lot to any cab's tone for being more solid.

 

[stephen sawall]

I have two cabs made completely out of MDF. By far the tightest sounding cabs I have used. I have a friend that builds cabs out if various hardwoods. They sound great for leads and cleans. Chunky rhythms sound like crap on them because they have too much resonance. It's almost like having reverb on.

A lot of people don't realize identical cabs can sound very different. Each individual cab sounds different.

 

[stephen sawall]

I have two cabs made completely out of MDF. By far the tightest sounding cabs I have used. I have a friend that builds cabs out if various hardwoods. They sound great for leads and cleans. Chunky rhythms sound like crap on them because they have too much resonance. It's almost like having reverb on.

A lot of people don't realize identical cabs can sound very different. Each individual cab sounds different.

 

[CrazyNutz]

Just my experience, but I've found the birch back panels to be livelier than the MDF/particle board back panels, but there may be a hair more bass to the MDF/particle board than birch.

I had a 68 slant cab I restored (a lot of work!), and it had more bass response/punch than any other slant I've ever had, and as much as a straight. It had the birch back panel, but extra bracing inside for the baffle.

I did have to reglue all of the corners inside, and fix a bunch of loose or stripped baffle board screws where they mounted in the baffle, though, too. After getting all that done, it was a monster sounding cab. Of course one of my clients heard it, offered me stupid money for it, and it lives in Canada now, where he still raves about it.

IMO, fixing the loose screws, and making sure the baffle/back panel/handle screws are all tight will add a lot to any cab's tone for being more solid.

Yeah, it's interesting. I have a Mesa 4x12, it's 100% birch and It really sounds lively, like it. I also have a Mojotone all birch 4x12 and it sounds a little dull to me, I don't find myself wanting to play it much.

That extra bracing in the slant cabs from the 60's is no joke. I have built that type of bracing for newer marshall cabs, and it is an improvement.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Not sure what it is about the Mojotone 4x12's. I've had about 12 of them, only three sounded right, even though they all looked the same. That's a go figure. I've still got one straight cab out in the shop that's good that I use for demos.

 

[CrazyNutz]

Not sure what it is about the Mojotone 4x12's. I've had about 12 of them, only three sounded right, even though they all looked the same. That's a go figure. I've still got one straight cab out in the shop that's good that I use for demos.

Yeah, the plywood on my mojotone seems thinner, flimsy, less dense. It's supposed to be birch, but I can tell you it's not the same birch as what mesa, marshall, bogner, etc. uses.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

I'd agree with that assessment, too, on the Mojo cabs.

 

[sg guy]

-it can be 100% cabinet grade Baltic Birch, but if there's a center brace, the odds are good the baffle and back panel are thinner, usually 1/2"-(the wood is a crap shoot)- even without a center brace its usually thinner and & cheaper ply-(if your lucky)-

 

[SpiderWars]

Not sure what it is about the Mojotone 4x12's. I've had about 12 of them, only three sounded right, even though they all looked the same. That's a go figure. I've still got one straight cab out in the shop that's good that I use for demos.

Yeah, the plywood on my mojotone seems thinner, flimsy, less dense. It's supposed to be birch, but I can tell you it's not the same birch as what mesa, marshall, bogner, etc. uses.

I had one of those Mojotones and agree. I traded it to another forum member and he flipped it immediately for I assume same reason.

My favorite 2x12 is super lively and I love it with a clean Fender or semi dirty Vox. But I don't want that much liveliness with a dirty Marshall.

 

[thewolf49]

Particle Board vs Birch Ply vs Birch Ply w/Poly Fill

I've seen a few debates here and there. I've owned many 4x12's, and still do. I've heard people call manufactures cheap, cutting corners, doing it wrong, etc. for using particle board back panels on their high-end line of cabinets.

So I decided to experiment for myself. Or more accurately, I have been experimenting when I get free time over the last few months.

I've always been curious, however what really sparked this Is when I acquired a Bogner 4x12 v30 cab. While it sounded good, there were some things about it I could not jive with. It was stiff, seemed like it cut the breakup/distortion down (like turning the gain knob back a notch or two) could not get it to set well in a live band mix, bass was weird, and I had some worse than normal ear fatigue from the highs (probably from having to turn my amp up louder than normal to get it to cut through).

First thing I did was carefully remove the staples, and pull out the poly fill. This helped. I then put a pair of greenbacks up top (I like this combo and have used it in several other cabs). Now the bass got loose at high volume with the GB's up top, and the poly fill removed. So I put it back in, It was pretty decent now up to mid volume.



But I still had problems at high volume.

So I thought, I've had my fair share of Marshall 1960 A's, AV's, B's, BV's, etc. From the 70's, 80's, 90's, and 00's They all were birch ply with particle board backs. They always sounded punchy, tight, and for the most part generally fantastic. The Bogner being pretty much a clone of the Marshall 4x12 with one of the largest difference being the back panel.

We'll went to Home depot, grabbed a sheet of 5/8'' particle board (closest size to the 15mm used on marshalls, and clones) and got all sweaty building a new back in the July Texas heat.



Whats the verdict? FCUKING AWESOME
Punchy, Bass is bigger and tighter, has a nice thump to it, Louder, more pissed off sounding. It is clearer, more articulate (which is the opposite from what I hear when people put birch ply backs on their marshal cabs). It sounds way better at high volume. If you ask me it sounds the way it's supposed to sound?

Anyhow I'll do another play/listen session tomorrow to make sure my ears are not lying to me.

Is it particle board or MDF? Or are those the same thing?

 

[anomaly]

Yeah, I've heard a lot of praise for that cab.

I have a Mesa OS 412 It has a birch back, and it sounds great at high volumes, however I have heard complaints from people that they have flubby/loose bass with the Mesa OS cabs.

I have a Mesa OS 412 and it sounds plenty tight enough. I'd say it's a very balanced sounding cab with not too much of any frequency.

 

[BeZo]

Ancient science!

 

[67mike]

I like my Marshall 4x12 cabs. Sound great. I have changed out the handles to Metal ones on some. If a cab is rattling....I take it apart and look for issues....loose screws, marshalls stupid plastic side handles have been issues. Worst cab rattle ever was my Mesa Electradyne widebody combo amp......had to take the cab apart and applied neoprene weatherstripping behind the speaker board and cab.

I have one of the original DV Mark B&C Neo speaker equipped 4x12s......made from Italian Poplar plywood iirc....amazing cab!!!!! Tight as piss and only weighs 47 lbs! My JCM 800 2203 rips through it.