Am I missing out on anything with boutique amps?

About the diminishing returns, it depends which amps. For most of them (Diezel's, Friedman, Driftwood, etc) I'd agree, but I don't hear stuff like a Wizard, IIC+ or Naylor being diminishing returns from almost any amp I can think of that goes for under $2000 these days. The difference in tone quality is imo just too obvious. You can say they're overpriced or just not you're cup of tea, fair enough, but I think most with at least semi-decent ears will be able to hear the clear quality difference in tone, clarity and punch
 
braintheory said:
About the diminishing returns, it depends which amps. For most of them (Diezel's, Friedman, Driftwood, etc) I'd agree, but I don't hear stuff like a Wizard, IIC+ or Naylor being diminishing returns from almost any amp I can think of that goes for under $2000 these days. The difference in tone quality is imo just too obvious. You can say they're overpriced or just not you're cup of tea, fair enough, but I think most with at least semi-decent ears will be able to hear the clear quality difference in tone, clarity and punch
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Yup. It's funny, because the age-old adage is that a great player can sound great playing into any amp... but everyone forgets the inverse is also true. Shitty players make everything sound bad.

More often than not, the people who can't perceive the difference in sound are not particularly good or creative players, and don't see the 20% (or whatever percentage you want to put on it) difference as huge, whereas the people who can really play and write cool music are incredibly excited by the innumerable creative and performance possibilities that "small difference in tone" can garner them as a player.

That's not always the case, of course; there are certainly great players who played on shitty gear, by choice or by necessity, but every decent player i've ever known personally who went this route eventually caved in when they realized how much easier you can make it on yourself by finding gear that compliments you and inspires you.

I have a buddy who is a fantastic blues player, who played a godawful behringer full stack and a squier strat for years and was convinced the gear industry was a racket, and was all he could ever need. He ranted and raved about how expensive tube amps are, and how annoying they are to maintain, and how he would never become a "gear snob douche." We both started gigging in my local area in the early 00s, and grew up a block from eachother. His playing was fine, but his tone was so ear-grating it could clear 150 people out of a dive bar for a cigarette break in no time flat.

Flash forward, I just saw him for the first time in four years a couple months ago at a show. He now plays two top hat club royales in wet/dry with with a 2000$ pedalboard and one of the most beautiful vintage 335s I've ever seen. His sound is absolutely glorious.

If anyone is happy with what they have, I can relate - I absolutely love my main high gain amp - but finding the right gear for you can truly pay massive dividends.
 
DanTravis62 said:
Yup. It's funny, because the age-old adage is that a great player can sound great playing into any amp... but everyone forgets the inverse is also true. Shitty players make everything sound bad.

More often than not, the people who can't perceive the difference in sound are not particularly good or creative players, and don't see the 20% (or whatever percentage you want to put on it) difference as huge, whereas the people who can really play and write cool music are incredibly excited by the innumerable creative and performance possibilities that "small difference in tone" can garner them as a player.

That's not always the case, of course; there are certainly great players who played on shitty gear, by choice or by necessity, but every decent player i've ever known personally who went this route eventually caved in when they realized how much easier you can make it on yourself by finding gear that compliments you and inspires you.

I have a buddy who is a fantastic blues player, who played a godawful behringer full stack and a squier strat for years and was convinced the gear industry was a racket, and was all he could ever need. He ranted and raved about how expensive tube amps are, and how annoying they are to maintain, and how he would never become a "gear snob douche." We both started gigging in my local area in the early 00s, and grew up a block from eachother. His playing was fine, but his tone was so ear-grating it could clear 150 people out of a dive bar for a cigarette break in no time flat.

Flash forward, I just saw him for the first time in four years a couple months ago at a show. He now plays two top hat club royales in wet/dry with with a 2000$ pedalboard and one of the most beautiful vintage 335s I've ever seen. His sound is absolutely glorious.

If anyone is happy with what they have, I can relate - I absolutely love my main high gain amp - but finding the right gear for you can truly pay massive dividends.
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It's true about finding gear that inspires. And likewise it also goes for guitars too. That's why I'd recommend beginners who are just starting guitar to learn on a "good" guitar; Not great but not a starter pack guitar either. If you've got a super low end guitar that's probably also not set up right, it could make one not want to practice much.
 
Metalhex said:
It's true about finding gear that inspires. And likewise it also goes for guitars too. That's why I'd recommend beginners who are just starting guitar to learn on a "good" guitar; Not great but not a starter pack guitar either. If you've got a super low end guitar that's probably also not set up right, it could make one not want to practice much.
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Yep, it absolutely is the same for guitars.
 
Devin said:
It's not just you.....the law of diminishing returns kicks in hard and fast past around the $1K-ish mark


I've played many ridiculously expensive amps that were absolutely stellar, but there's no chance in hell I'd pay the typical asking price for one myself
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That is definite Bullshit!
 
DanTravis62 said:
Yup. It's funny, because the age-old adage is that a great player can sound great playing into any amp... but everyone forgets the inverse is also true. Shitty players make everything sound bad.

More often than not, the people who can't perceive the difference in sound are not particularly good or creative players, and don't see the 20% (or whatever percentage you want to put on it) difference as huge, whereas the people who can really play and write cool music are incredibly excited by the innumerable creative and performance possibilities that "small difference in tone" can garner them as a player.

That's not always the case, of course; there are certainly great players who played on shitty gear, by choice or by necessity, but every decent player i've ever known personally who went this route eventually caved in when they realized how much easier you can make it on yourself by finding gear that compliments you and inspires you.

I have a buddy who is a fantastic blues player, who played a godawful behringer full stack and a squier strat for years and was convinced the gear industry was a racket, and was all he could ever need. He ranted and raved about how expensive tube amps are, and how annoying they are to maintain, and how he would never become a "gear snob douche." We both started gigging in my local area in the early 00s, and grew up a block from eachother. His playing was fine, but his tone was so ear-grating it could clear 150 people out of a dive bar for a cigarette break in no time flat.

Flash forward, I just saw him for the first time in four years a couple months ago at a show. He now plays two top hat club royales in wet/dry with with a 2000$ pedalboard and one of the most beautiful vintage 335s I've ever seen. His sound is absolutely glorious.

If anyone is happy with what they have, I can relate - I absolutely love my main high gain amp - but finding the right gear for you can truly pay massive dividends.
Click to expand...
Truer words have never been spoken. Great gear makes it easier to play if you know how to play to begin with. I can sound like me through shitty gear but it takes more work to do so, and I feel like I’m fighting the gear. By the time I’m done playing I either feel beat to hell or like I’ve ran a marathon.

Great gear on the other hand in inspiring, doesn’t require more of your playing to make up for a lack of gain or poor voicing, and compliments your playing to let you spend more effort on the song you’re playing and less on trying to make the bad gear sound or play like the good gear already does.

I gigged a 5150 for years because that’s what I had. At times I wish I could have started out on a Marshall because they’re so unforgiving but ungodly good at what they do. But on the other side of both I found they both do what they do great - one doesn’t replace the other, hence why guys here have collections of amps. Some are more inspiring, some thump, some do cleans best, some do soloing best/feel the best, etc.
 
glpg80 said:
Truer words have never been spoken. Great gear makes it easier to play if you know how to play to begin with. I can sound like me through shitty gear but it takes more work to do so, and I feel like I’m fighting the gear. By the time I’m done playing I either feel beat to hell or like I’ve ran a marathon.

Great gear on the other hand in inspiring, doesn’t require more of your playing to make up for a lack of gain or poor voicing, and compliments your playing to let you spend more effort on the song you’re playing and less on trying to make the bad gear sound or play like the good gear already does.

I gigged a 5150 for years because that’s what I had. At times I wish I could have started out on a Marshall because they’re so unforgiving but ungodly good at what they do. But on the other side of both I found they both do what they do great - one doesn’t replace the other, hence why guys here have collections of amps. Some are more inspiring, some thump, some do cleans best, some do soloing best/feel the best, etc.
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My least favorite thing to happen, and I am sure it has happened with a lot of you guys, too, is where you plug into an amp and are just twisting knobs forever in vain trying to find a good sound that doesn't exist in the damned thing. Voicing is soo important. I can go with lower gain, but the voicing kills me when it is trash. Line 6 comes to mind....I almost lost my mind. My dad told me it was the most kick ass gain sound he had heard. Guess he never tried real amps..
 
Smashedguitarist said:
My least favorite thing to happen, and I am sure it has happened with a lot of you guys, too, is where you plug into an amp and are just twisting knobs forever in vain trying to find a good sound that doesn't exist in the damned thing. Voicing is soo important. I can go with lower gain, but the voicing kills me when it is trash. Line 6 comes to mind....I almost lost my mind. My dad told me it was the most kick ass gain sound he had heard. Guess he never tried real amps..
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I usually know pretty quick, like within hours, if an amp's voicing and response is for me or not. I've had a handful that I knew within 2-3 hrs that it was going down the road. I'll still spend a few days or weeks with it after an initial impression just to make sure I really dial in with the ears using unconventional settings if need be and just to let the ears adjust to something new.

There have definitely been amps that I was very unsure of upon initial plug in only to let the ears settle and fiddle with the knobs to find...oh wait, I really like what I'm getting here. Then it's really nice when you get an amp that's love at first play and it keeps getting better the more you explore. A much rarer occurrence for me, but there have been a handful of amps that that's been the case.
 
MetalHeadMike said:
I usually know pretty quick, like within hours, if an amp's voicing and response is for me or not. I've had a handful that I knew within 2-3 hrs that it was going down the road. I'll still spend a few days or weeks with it after an initial impression just to make sure I really dial in with the ears using unconventional settings if need be and just to let the ears adjust to something new.

There have definitely been amps that I was very unsure of upon initial plug in only to let the ears settle and fiddle with the knobs to find...oh wait, I really like what I'm getting here. Then it's really nice when you get an amp that's love at first play and it keeps getting better the more you explore. A much rarer occurrence for me, but there have been a handful of amps that that's been the case.
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My Bogner 101B was like that. I use the presence knob as a treble knob and treble is treated like a hair knob to dial out the piercing character only - it stays on 1 or less. It’s super aggressive ran like this and completely unconventional, but needed to get the blanket character lifted. It’s ungodly at band volume.

Without fiddling with it, I was close to moving it. I hate dark amps - they lack the grind I prefer. So glad I found out how to run it - and in doing so helping others dial it in as well that have similar complaints.
 
glpg80 said:
My Bogner 101B was like that. I use the presence knob as a treble knob and treble is treated like a hair knob to dial out the piercing character only - it stays on 1 or less. It’s super aggressive ran like this and completely unconventional, but needed to get the blanket character lifted. It’s ungodly at band volume.

Without fiddling with it, I was close to moving it. I hate dark amps - they lack the grind I prefer. So glad I found out how to run it - and in doing so helping others dial it in as well that have similar complaints.
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Yep...I learned long ago to use the ears when spinning knobs and often use very non-conventional settings. I ran the MW Dual recto and Splawn QRs I had with treble at or close to zero and used presence to get the clarity and cut. Took the fizz and harshness right out.

What Wizards have you owned?
 
I think it depends a lot on what music influences you.

If you are into Prog Metal, then you might want something with a bit more distortion and compression on tap.

Some amps sound like they are ready for recording and sound good no matter what you plug into them with, like the Bogner Ecxtasy.

Some amps are very non distinct and need pedals to articulate the sound you want.

I will say that after 36 years of playing I always gravitate back to Marshall and Fender.
 
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Money means nothing when it comes to gear. I really mean that in a lot of senses. It comes down to one simple thing: Finding the gear that enables you to express yourself creatively in the best way that works for you. Instruments are creative tools. I cannot really view it as such a complicated thing.
 
I just spent 45 minutes playing my Katana 1 combo and I can say that that amp does not inspire me or I don't connect with it much. I was tweaking around on the brown channel and trying to find a happy medium between shrieky, scratchy gain and not enough gain, going back and forth between the OD boost and the gain knob. I engage the boost just to where it turns on, and start with the gain knob on 0. Turn the gain knob up; it sounds better. But a little flubby. Turn the bass knob down, too dry brittle. Turn the OD up, now I have to turn the bass knob up. Now I have to turn the gain knob down a little.

Just a whole lot of back and forth and couldn't really be happy. It doesn't help that I haven't picked up a guitar in a few weeks either. Maybe it's a combination of a bunch of things as to why I don't feel inspired to play. I do dive bombs with my Floyd and I hear a knocking/cracking sound at the nut, and my strings go slightly out of tune when it does that.
 
Metalhex said:
I just spent 45 minutes playing my Katana 1 combo and I can say that that amp does not inspire me or I don't connect with it much. I was tweaking around on the brown channel and trying to find a happy medium between shrieky, scratchy gain and not enough gain, going back and forth between the OD boost and the gain knob. I engage the boost just to where it turns on, and start with the gain knob on 0. Turn the gain knob up; it sounds better. But a little flubby. Turn the bass knob down, too dry brittle. Turn the OD up, now I have to turn the bass knob up. Now I have to turn the gain knob down a little.

Just a whole lot of back and forth and couldn't really be happy. It doesn't help that I haven't picked up a guitar in a few weeks either. Maybe it's a combination of a bunch of things as to why I don't feel inspired to play. I do dive bombs with my Floyd and I hear a knocking/cracking sound at the nut, and my strings go slightly out of tune when it does that.
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Have you messed with the software editor with the Katana? It is pretty crazy how much better tones I got when I delved into it a little more.
 
DanTravis62 said:
There's enough qualifiers in there that it's technically true, but not for much of the music I gravitate to :dunno:
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I’m still wondering what you actually listen to?? You mentioned before it can’t be found on any streaming sites, is there some secret club of guys using boutique amps or something?
 
RaceU4her said:
I’m still wondering what you actually listen to?? You mentioned before it can’t be found on any streaming sites, is there some secret club of guys using boutique amps or something?
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F94DD2B5-AC57-4881-8BB8-E0CD963AFAC6.jpeg

Yes
 
japetus said:
Have you messed with the software editor with the Katana? It is pretty crazy how much better tones I got when I delved into it a little more.
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Yes I did when I first got it and that brought me to the tone that I have saved in it now. That is the tone I am tweaking
 
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