Attention Brad

[bonedarrell]

@ bonedarrell


Well, I actually DO know the terms of the arrangement with Mark, and Mark was never being paid to assemble amps, he was being paid (a percentage) for his designs. Barrang (sp?) was being paid for the builds, and now George is being paid for the builds.

Assembly was always factored in, only the assembler has changed. Does that affect the cost of the build? Probably, I don't have any first hand knowledge of that, hence my statement about profit/sales.

Brad has always said he would take care of thoise people, and knowing Brad, he will; as soon as the money that WOULD have gone to Mark is enough to cover that expense.

Again, Mark was being paid a percentage for his past and continued design work, nothing more.

Josh....that being the business arrangement does not clarify how much Mark's percentage was going to be. Bringing in George and all of the logistics surrounding that could have very easily changed the numbers. So it is your understanding that Brad should take on the financial responsibility of Mark's debts?? Makes no sense to me. I can see the logic pertaining to "if Mark stayed around that Brad would have his finger on the pulse of encouraging Mark to complete his transactions with victims". That makes sense and supports Brad's good character. But this is all speculation on my part. I just see it as poor taste to attempt to hold Brad's feet to the fire now that Mark has disappeared. All I know is I, fortunately, had no business dispute with Mark that I am now trying to pin on Brad and that I now have an Atomica on the way thank to a good business transaction with Brad. He went above and beyond making sure I was a happy customer.

I do know the percentage, but won't be posting the details.

I think you completely misunderstood my post; I was simply stating that Mark being there has no bearing on whether or not Brad chooses to make those people whole. My bet (assuming the sales justify it) is that he will.

What Mark did sucked, and his signing this deal was his attempt to make sure those people received their amps.

They have the designs, and are producing them; if they sell, I'm sure Brad will be more than happy to help those who got screwed.

Josh....I didn't misunderstand. I just happen to disagree with concept of Brad being obligated to help those who got screwed and am kind of surprised that concept seems to make sense to you and others. Brad can make his own "choices", I understand that. I just see this as a dead horse and a completely unrealistic expectation of Brad. That being said, I am happy to help those who got screwed.....Here it goes...."Don't ever do business with those who have questionable business practices"........ Time to flush!

I'm not saying obligated, and never did...I'm saying knowing Brad, he will, if he's able.

Ok, Ok. The implication is that "Brad being the upstanding guy he is, he will make this right when he can". I just don't see this as "the right thing to do" for Brad. I do see it as the right thing to do for Mark. I wouldn't consider Brad a freak for doing something about this, but I also wouldn't find Brad to not be the guy you think he is for doing nothing at all. I have exhausted my position by now.....time to get on with life. Can I get an "AMEN!!!!!!"

 

[King Guitar]

Guys I really appreciate the respect and good things you have said about me. I am not perfect but I am doing the best I can with what I have available to me.

Remember Cameron Amplifiers is a team here. It is myself, Rob Navarrette and Dave Friedman. It is not and never has been Mark Cameron.

Its not just about me but I am the front guy and the guy who takes the arrows.

I understand that guys need to vent about Mark and he is not available to get shot so they want to shoot someone and my ass is standing tall and not shrinking from the fire so they shoot at me.

I could easily shut down the thread, lock the thread or just nuke it all together but thats not how I like to roll.

I don't want anyone to think they are being locked out or silenced but sometimes it gets so over the top its too much. I am done with the OP, he has burned his bridge with me. So it is what it is.

Cant wait to hear the Atomicas in everybodys hands as they deliver this week and next.

 

[johnpace2]

Brad did say in another thread that 2 of the lost CCV's had been provided. I just hope they were in the order of those who had been waiting the longest, otherwise, that would be pretty frustrating. Assuming that the two who were provided amps were #1 and #2 on the list, I should be next.

I feel bad you're in this position, John, because you seem like a good dude. However, the bottom line is that Brad doesn't owe anybody anything. This includes the fact that he has no obligation to "make good" in the order of the list of guys that got screwed.....

I agree that he has no real obligation. He has stated that he will do his best. I also agree that the original poster isn't doing the rest of us any favors by bringing the subject up in this way.

 

[johnpace2]

@ bonedarrell


Well, I actually DO know the terms of the arrangement with Mark, and Mark was never being paid to assemble amps, he was being paid (a percentage) for his designs. Barrang (sp?) was being paid for the builds, and now George is being paid for the builds.

Assembly was always factored in, only the assembler has changed. Does that affect the cost of the build? Probably, I don't have any first hand knowledge of that, hence my statement about profit/sales.

Brad has always said he would take care of thoise people, and knowing Brad, he will; as soon as the money that WOULD have gone to Mark is enough to cover that expense.

Again, Mark was being paid a percentage for his past and continued design work, nothing more.

Josh....that being the business arrangement does not clarify how much Mark's percentage was going to be. Bringing in George and all of the logistics surrounding that could have very easily changed the numbers. So it is your understanding that Brad should take on the financial responsibility of Mark's debts?? Makes no sense to me. I can see the logic pertaining to "if Mark stayed around that Brad would have his finger on the pulse of encouraging Mark to complete his transactions with victims". That makes sense and supports Brad's good character. But this is all speculation on my part. I just see it as poor taste to attempt to hold Brad's feet to the fire now that Mark has disappeared. All I know is I, fortunately, had no business dispute with Mark that I am now trying to pin on Brad and that I now have an Atomica on the way thank to a good business transaction with Brad. He went above and beyond making sure I was a happy customer.

I do know the percentage, but won't be posting the details.

I think you completely misunderstood my post; I was simply stating that Mark being there has no bearing on whether or not Brad chooses to make those people whole. My bet (assuming the sales justify it) is that he will.

What Mark did sucked, and his signing this deal was his attempt to make sure those people received their amps.

They have the designs, and are producing them; if they sell, I'm sure Brad will be more than happy to help those who got screwed.

Josh....I didn't misunderstand. I just happen to disagree with concept of Brad being obligated to help those who got screwed and am kind of surprised that concept seems to make sense to you and others. Brad can make his own "choices", I understand that. I just see this as a dead horse and a completely unrealistic expectation of Brad. That being said, I am happy to help those who got screwed.....Here it goes...."Don't ever do business with those who have questionable business practices"........ Time to flush!

I'm not saying obligated, and never did...I'm saying knowing Brad, he will, if he's able.

Ok, Ok. The implication is that "Brad being the upstanding guy he is, he will make this right when he can". I just don't see this as "the right thing to do" for Brad. I do see it as the right thing to do for Mark. I wouldn't consider Brad a freak for doing something about this, but I also wouldn't find Brad to not be the guy you think he is for doing nothing at all. I have exhausted my position by now.....time to get on with life. Can I get an "AMEN!!!!!!"

Well, it's a little hard to have the Cameron Amp company when you Google Mark Cameron and get a bunch of "Cameron is a lying, cheating, scumbag" results. Doing the best they can to cleanse the old reputation is a smart business move since the Cameron name is valuable.

 

[Chris6870]

If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

 

[Gorehog]

We could call it something else but the truth is its a Cameron, his designs are the "Cameron Tone" we separate the man from the product. Calling it something else would be easier for us but people know and love the Cameron tone even if they don't love him. I totally get what you guys are saying but we will stick with the name.

As far as the suggestions toward a name change +1. I was under the impression the CCV was designed after the original Atomica, Which was Jose's design. The high and low gain Jose's are Jose's designs. I've only known of Mark for a few years because he was doing Jose mods, and because of his infamous business dealings. I've known who Jose was for thirty years. To me the Cameron tone is Jose Modified Marshall tone, the Jose crunch. Some of the players who's tone Jose had a hand in were, Reb Beach, Mick Mars, EVH, Steve Stevens, George Lynch, Joe Holmes, John Sykes, loudness, keel, Peter Frampton, Steve Farris, Richie Sambora, Metallica, Warren Demartini, Neal Schon, Jake E Lee, Steve Vai, and little old me. If Mark was in charge of getting all these people there Jose modified Marshalls, the 80s would have sounded like the 70s. In my opinion a lot more people might be interested in amps knowingly based on Jose Arrendondos designs, who was probably the most famous amp tech of all time. Also there are a lot more killer Jose designs to expand upon in the future. With your consistant parts and build quality you can make all of his designs sound great, instead of the hit and miss that comes with modding old heads. I totally support your company and want one of each. And it would be cool if more credit was given where credit is due. Jose was a really good old dude, he was also not a flake. Anyway, my red head when I get it will be referred to as my KING Atomica JA100.

so am i.lol

keep in mind,just as Mark Cameron and Cameron amps are not to be confused with each other.

neither are gearhog and gorehog.

thank you.

Nobody will ever confuse us, I'm from the 80s

 

[Gorehog]

We could call it something else but the truth is its a Cameron, his designs are the "Cameron Tone" we separate the man from the product. Calling it something else would be easier for us but people know and love the Cameron tone even if they don't love him. I totally get what you guys are saying but we will stick with the name.

As far as the suggestions toward a name change +1. I was under the impression the CCV was designed after the original Atomica, Which was Jose's design. The high and low gain Jose's are Jose's designs. I've only known of Mark for a few years because he was doing Jose mods, and because of his infamous business dealings. I've known who Jose was for thirty years. To me the Cameron tone is Jose Modified Marshall tone, the Jose crunch. Some of the players who's tone Jose had a hand in were, Reb Beach, Mick Mars, EVH, Steve Stevens, George Lynch, Joe Holmes, John Sykes, loudness, keel, Peter Frampton, Steve Farris, Richie Sambora, Metallica, Warren Demartini, Neal Schon, Jake E Lee, Steve Vai, and little old me. If Mark was in charge of getting all these people there Jose modified Marshalls, the 80s would have sounded like the 70s. In my opinion a lot more people might be interested in amps knowingly based on Jose Arrendondos designs, who was probably the most famous amp tech of all time. Also there are a lot more killer Jose designs to expand upon in the future. With your consistant parts and build quality you can make all of his designs sound great, instead of the hit and miss that comes with modding old heads. I totally support your company and want one of each. And it would be cool if more credit was given where credit is due. Jose was a really good old dude, he was also not a flake. Anyway, my red head when I get it will be referred to as my KING Atomica JA100.

keep in mind,just as Mark Cameron and Cameron amps are not to be confused with each other.

neither are gearhog and gorehog.

thank you.

Nobody will ever confuse us, I'm from the 80s

ha ha so am i.lol!

 

[The Hoff]

Cant wait to hear the Atomicas in everybodys hands as they deliver this week and next.

The Cameron Amps that is ran by Brad, Rob, and Dave (three people who I, like many here, have met in person and have done thousands of dollars of business with) are providing quality products. That's what I know as fact an that's what should matter. Even if it had to be done without Mark Cameron, at least it is being done.

Pretty extreme and abstract analogy but nonetheless valid-Germany is no longer ran by the Nazis. Doesn't change their history but it also doesn't in anyway reflect the people who run it today.

 

[jcj]

@ bonedarrell

My last try, then you can get an AMEN!!!!

Brad's being a good guy comes into play with the administration, follow through, (and advocacy for) the guys who didn't get an amp being made whole; ie witholding payment from Mark until there is enough money that those people have a shot at getting an amp.

Here are some facts-

Licensing Mark's designs wasn't free.

Mark's share of any futiure profits are being held until those people are made whole (as was agreed).

If the amps sell enough, Mark's share of the money (not Brad's, Rob's, or Dave's) will be used to make whole the people that didn't receive their amps directly from Mark.

Enter Brad and Company's good will- They're willing to play middle man (or were, in some cases)....

If you've managed to piss off the guy who is willing to help you get an amp (btw...real fucking slick, OP), then your recourse is trying to get your money from Mark. Of course that would be when and if Cameron amplification is profitable, and he's receiving royalties or licensing fees, or whatever you'd like to term the compensation.

Mark's being there doesn't have any bearing on when or if those people will receive amps, sales and Brad and Company's willingness to play middle man do.

Hope that makes what I was trying to say really clear. If not, I give

And as promised.....AMEN!!!!

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Cameron Amplifiers is a team here. It is myself, Rob Navarrette and Dave Friedman. It is not and never has been Mark Cameron.

Smart marketing demands a name change here-after reading through this mess, I imagine anyone familiar with the Cameron name is angry & distrustful. These people listed above ^ have enough great respect to make it a success

That's a super-bad deal for those who were screwed, including the angry OP who is lashing out at presumably the wrong people

 

[guitarmike]

Disclosure:
I purchased an Atomica from Brad.

I am impressed that Brad is willing to help out people that were screwed by Mark. Look at history, has Brad been a man of his word? If so, the 12-14 guys Mark owes amps will get them,maybe not as fast as they wanted but faster than Mark would have.

I am buying this amp based on George and Dave's involvement. Those guys would not be involved if the amps were not first rate.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I'm just still confused as to why the big 3 are still marketing this under the Cameron name then.. that said, I'll stay out of this mes because it seems like there are many hurt people (financially and in other ways) as a result of this.

 

[Seitz333]

I'm one of those who is owed a CCV and cab from the pre-Brad days. I understand the frustration, but yelling at Brad isn't going to help. All we can do is wait and try to remain optimistic.

Brad did say in another thread that 2 of the lost CCV's had been provided. I just hope they were in the order of those who had been waiting the longest, otherwise, that would be pretty frustrating. Assuming that the two who were provided amps were #1 and #2 on the list, I should be next. = )

I think the OP is just trolling anyway, but I still thank Brad for doing what he can.

As being in the same position as John, I +1 to this.

Continued thanks to Brad.

Chuck

 

[bonedarrell]

@ bonedarrell

My last try, then you can get an AMEN!!!!

Brad's being a good guy comes into play with the administration, follow through, (and advocacy for) the guys who didn't get an amp being made whole; ie witholding payment from Mark until there is enough money that those people have a shot at getting an amp.

Here are some facts-

Licensing Mark's designs wasn't free.

Mark's share of any futiure profits are being held until those people are made whole (as was agreed).

If the amps sell enough, Mark's share of the money (not Brad's, Rob's, or Dave's) will be used to make whole the people that didn't receive their amps directly from Mark.

Enter Brad and Company's good will- They're willing to play middle man (or were, in some cases)....

If you've managed to piss off the guy who is willing to help you get an amp (btw...real fucking slick, OP), then your recourse is trying to get your money from Mark. Of course that would be when and if Cameron amplification is profitable, and he's receiving royalties or licensing fees, or whatever you'd like to term the compensation.

Mark's being there doesn't have any bearing on when or if those people will receive amps, sales and Brad and Company's willingness to play middle man do.

Hope that makes what I was trying to say really clear. If not, I give

And as promised.....AMEN!!!!

OK. I completely understand what your point and position is. Do you agree that if Mark's share of the profits are now eaten up by new circumstances unforeseen, then there is nothing Brad can do.....willing or not willing?? We just have to agree to disagree bro. You are assuming now that Mark is gone, there are extra profits laying around. I doubt that is the case. Regardless, we just have a fundamental difference of opinion. How about dropping this and we just go play our guitars?? Sound good??

 

[guitarmike]

@ bonedarrell

My last try, then you can get an AMEN!!!!

Brad's being a good guy comes into play with the administration, follow through, (and advocacy for) the guys who didn't get an amp being made whole; ie witholding payment from Mark until there is enough money that those people have a shot at getting an amp.

Here are some facts-

Licensing Mark's designs wasn't free.

Mark's share of any futiure profits are being held until those people are made whole (as was agreed).

If the amps sell enough, Mark's share of the money (not Brad's, Rob's, or Dave's) will be used to make whole the people that didn't receive their amps directly from Mark.

Enter Brad and Company's good will- They're willing to play middle man (or were, in some cases)....

If you've managed to piss off the guy who is willing to help you get an amp (btw...real fucking slick, OP), then your recourse is trying to get your money from Mark. Of course that would be when and if Cameron amplification is profitable, and he's receiving royalties or licensing fees, or whatever you'd like to term the compensation.

Mark's being there doesn't have any bearing on when or if those people will receive amps, sales and Brad and Company's willingness to play middle man do.

Hope that makes what I was trying to say really clear. If not, I give

And as promised.....AMEN!!!!

OK. I completely understand what your point and position is. Do you agree that if Mark's share of the profits are now eaten up by new circumstances unforeseen, then there is nothing Brad can do.....willing or not willing?? We just have to agree to disagree bro. You are assuming now that Mark is gone, there are extra profits laying around. I doubt that is the case. Regardless, we just have a fundamental difference of opinion. How about dropping this and we just go play our guitars?? Sound good??

What we do not know and is not really our business is how Brad plans to make it right to the guys that lost out to Mark. From a pure business angle if Brad and company get amps to those guys, there is a lot of company goodwill to be gained. Not sure if it is worth it but it definitely puts Cameron amps, King guitars, and Tone Merchants in a very good light. It is also a cool thing to do and in a world where we need more cool, it is refreshing to see.

 

[ejecta]

I'd change the brand name for sure. Anyone that is looking for "Cameron tone" already knows where to look. Any potential new comers will do a google search and bail instantly if they don't dig far enough to realize that it is under new management.

New name with a note that it was designed by MC.

How about this?

 

[jcj]

@ bonedarrell

My last try, then you can get an AMEN!!!!

Brad's being a good guy comes into play with the administration, follow through, (and advocacy for) the guys who didn't get an amp being made whole; ie witholding payment from Mark until there is enough money that those people have a shot at getting an amp.

Here are some facts-

Licensing Mark's designs wasn't free.

Mark's share of any futiure profits are being held until those people are made whole (as was agreed).

If the amps sell enough, Mark's share of the money (not Brad's, Rob's, or Dave's) will be used to make whole the people that didn't receive their amps directly from Mark.

Enter Brad and Company's good will- They're willing to play middle man (or were, in some cases)....

If you've managed to piss off the guy who is willing to help you get an amp (btw...real fucking slick, OP), then your recourse is trying to get your money from Mark. Of course that would be when and if Cameron amplification is profitable, and he's receiving royalties or licensing fees, or whatever you'd like to term the compensation.

Mark's being there doesn't have any bearing on when or if those people will receive amps, sales and Brad and Company's willingness to play middle man do.

Hope that makes what I was trying to say really clear. If not, I give

And as promised.....AMEN!!!!

OK. I completely understand what your point and position is. Do you agree that if Mark's share of the profits are now eaten up by new circumstances unforeseen, then there is nothing Brad can do.....willing or not willing?? We just have to agree to disagree bro. You are assuming now that Mark is gone, there are extra profits laying around. I doubt that is the case. Regardless, we just have a fundamental difference of opinion. How about dropping this and we just go play our guitars?? Sound good??

I'd agree completey, if Mark's compensation were a flat fee; it's not, it's a percentage.

No assumption of "extra" profit. Profit is profit, and a percentage is a percentage.

Other than that, we agree completely

BTW- You seem like a good guy ..... and for the record, my position is the only person that should be responsible for paying for those amps is Mark.

 

[chumbucket]

I'd change the brand name for sure. Anyone that is looking for "Cameron tone" already knows where to look. Any potential new comers will do a google search and bail instantly if they don't dig far enough to realize that it is under new management.

New name with a note that it was designed by MC.

How about this?

Too close to Klingon.

 

[bonedarrell]

@ bonedarrell

My last try, then you can get an AMEN!!!!

Brad's being a good guy comes into play with the administration, follow through, (and advocacy for) the guys who didn't get an amp being made whole; ie witholding payment from Mark until there is enough money that those people have a shot at getting an amp.

Here are some facts-

Licensing Mark's designs wasn't free.

Mark's share of any futiure profits are being held until those people are made whole (as was agreed).

If the amps sell enough, Mark's share of the money (not Brad's, Rob's, or Dave's) will be used to make whole the people that didn't receive their amps directly from Mark.

Enter Brad and Company's good will- They're willing to play middle man (or were, in some cases)....

If you've managed to piss off the guy who is willing to help you get an amp (btw...real fucking slick, OP), then your recourse is trying to get your money from Mark. Of course that would be when and if Cameron amplification is profitable, and he's receiving royalties or licensing fees, or whatever you'd like to term the compensation.

Mark's being there doesn't have any bearing on when or if those people will receive amps, sales and Brad and Company's willingness to play middle man do.

Hope that makes what I was trying to say really clear. If not, I give

And as promised.....AMEN!!!!

OK. I completely understand what your point and position is. Do you agree that if Mark's share of the profits are now eaten up by new circumstances unforeseen, then there is nothing Brad can do.....willing or not willing?? We just have to agree to disagree bro. You are assuming now that Mark is gone, there are extra profits laying around. I doubt that is the case. Regardless, we just have a fundamental difference of opinion. How about dropping this and we just go play our guitars?? Sound good??

I'd agree completey, if Mark's compensation were a flat fee; it's not, it's a percentage.

No assumption of "extra" profit. Profit is profit, and a percentage is a percentage.

Other than that, we agree completely

BTW- You seem like a good guy ..... and for the record, my position is the only person that should be responsible for paying for those amps is Mark.

Ok, this is my last time at the pulpit on this matter (I am already tired of me, so I am sure most are as well). A flat fee would "support" your position. Mark gets his money no matter how the COB or profits change. The fact that he gets a % supports my position. If the COB increases then 10% of $100 profit is now much different than 10% of $1000 profit. A business deal based on %'s can be zero or even negative. They are moving targets. Flat fees aren't. So now, if the COB has now increased for some reason, can you see you the % of "Mark's profit" could possibly be gone or even negative? The defense rests.

Btw, you seem like a good guy too. This is a healthy debate and you have conducted yourself like a gentleman....props!!

 

[EXPcustom]

@ bonedarrell


Well, I actually DO know the terms of the arrangement with Mark, and Mark was never being paid to assemble amps, he was being paid (a percentage) for his designs. Barrang (sp?) was being paid for the builds, and now George is being paid for the builds.

Assembly was always factored in, only the assembler has changed. Does that affect the cost of the build? Probably, I don't have any first hand knowledge of that, hence my statement about profit/sales.

Brad has always said he would take care of thoise people, and knowing Brad, he will; as soon as the money that WOULD have gone to Mark is enough to cover that expense.

Again, Mark was being paid a percentage for his past and continued design work, nothing more.

Josh....that being the business arrangement does not clarify how much Mark's percentage was going to be. Bringing in George and all of the logistics surrounding that could have very easily changed the numbers. So it is your understanding that Brad should take on the financial responsibility of Mark's debts?? Makes no sense to me. I can see the logic pertaining to "if Mark stayed around that Brad would have his finger on the pulse of encouraging Mark to complete his transactions with victims". That makes sense and supports Brad's good character. But this is all speculation on my part. I just see it as poor taste to attempt to hold Brad's feet to the fire now that Mark has disappeared. All I know is I, fortunately, had no business dispute with Mark that I am now trying to pin on Brad and that I now have an Atomica on the way thank to a good business transaction with Brad. He went above and beyond making sure I was a happy customer.

I do know the percentage, but won't be posting the details.

I think you completely misunderstood my post; I was simply stating that Mark being there has no bearing on whether or not Brad chooses to make those people whole. My bet (assuming the sales justify it) is that he will.

What Mark did sucked, and his signing this deal was his attempt to make sure those people received their amps.

They have the designs, and are producing them; if they sell, I'm sure Brad will be more than happy to help those who got screwed.

I can vouch for what Josh says, I had seen the contract as well. I know the percentage too which I wont disclose. I believe Mark when he said his intention was to try to make things right with the customers who are owed amps by signing it and I am sure Brad will make things right with those customers.