Attention Brad

[marvcus]

Man, what an unfortunate deal all the way around.

Aceofspades, I can understand your frustration. You spent a couple thousand and got nothing in return. A promise for a promise and one side broke that promise. What can you do? You can sue Mark Cameron. Problem is, even if he was found and served with the lawsuit, he likely has next to nothing to pay any judgment. So you are screwed pretty much no matter what.

I think your best bet is to CALL Brad King when you calm down and apologize for venting your frustration with Mark Cameron and the bad situation you found yourself in on this forum. Maybe he'll reconsider and keep you on the "to-do" list and you might get something instead of NOTHING, which is what you have now and all you are looking to get in the future as it stands.

And to Brad King - don't think I have ever talked to you on the forum (and def. not over the phone) but you seem like a stand-up guy and I'll surely keep you in mind for future purchases.

Peace.

 

[bonedarrell]

Did this guy send money to mark or Jerry ? I could tell sending money to mark was insane but my posts back then were erased which is a shame cause it could have maybe helped the victims. I agree that this was pre brad so not his fault. However, I remember brad assuring in the beginning that he would take care of them much to my amazement. Now that time has passed and it's moving slower then expected its a little harder to just flood the small market with essentially free amps. Maybe a good idea would be to offer those guys who don't want to wait any longer say half off on any Cameron amp, this way u still make a buck and help clean up this mess once and for all.

Dude!?!? That is a horrible idea!! I'm sure Brad's intent of "taking care of the victims" was to encourage Mark to make good on him amp deals had Mark stuck around. Cant be done if Mark bailed. I have never seen where Brad offered to pay these people back or give amp discounts!! This is not Brad's mess to clean up!!

Why would Mark sticking around have anything to do with those people getting their amps?

Mark's share of proceeds were/are to go toward getting those people their amps, him being there has nothing to do with it; it's a function of sales/profit.

Brad has always maintained that if/when they made enough to cover it (out of Mark's share) those people would get their amps.

When/if that happens, I'm sure that he'll do exactly as he said he would; Mark, or no Mark.

Why? Because now Brad has to utilize "Marks share" to pay somebody else since Mark left. Listen, we have no idea what Brad and Mark's business arrangement was and I am sure that arrangement couldn't be imposed on George or anybody else that now has to pick up the slack. Look at the numbers and do the simple math! Considering the margins, how many ways the profit pie is being split and how few amps are being made, nobody is getting rich on this venture. So now, whatever extra margins that were going to be present out of "Marks share" are now most likely gone. For example, The arrangement with Mark could have been something like him not taking any or very little until his restitution was settled. Now, with Mark bailing the COB has increased and the margins have shrunk. You are right in one aspect. This IS a function of "profit" .....MARK's profit! No Mark=No Mark's profit! If any of you have owned your own business, this would make some sense to you. You are hanging on to the "Clear the name" concept. Well that seems to be only affecting a select few. The "Cameron" name doesn't need to be cleared to me or the majority. In business, you are not going to please everybody. You cater to the majority and the reasonable and you MAKE money! There is no logical theory that supports Brad making good on Mark's past bad business dealings.

 

[projectx102]

We could call it something else but the truth is its a Cameron, his designs are the "Cameron Tone" we separate the man from the product. Calling it something else would be easier for us but people know and love the Cameron tone even if they don't love him. I totally get what you guys are saying but we will stick with the name.

Its good for you to separate Mark from HIS product.  Now you don't have to pay him for "HIS" tone, and you get the name to boot.  It's now "yours".  You guys are of the same ilk.



I notice you never addressed getting the owed amps to anyone. I knew you would never follow through. Hence the reason for this thread.  Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. 

At this point dude, I hope he doesn't help you out. Brad has been up front the entire way with this operation and has done his absolute best to get these amps out. I know I'm gonna get me an Atomica.

 

[rlord1974]

"AceofSpades" I don't owe you a thing. Nothing, Zip and now my goodwill to you is out the window.

Brilliant! Kudos to you, Brad!

Looks good on you, "Ace".

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Not sure why anyone would ever have bothered buying a Cameron.. the guy has a bad reputation for a reason. What should happen here is that he should offer everyone a chance to switch their order to an Atomica (if they want them) and refund them the price difference if there is one. They seem to more or less have production under control with those amps.

Fail that, someone should just leak some of his mods or circuit design to the DIY world and that'll teach him to screw with the consumer!

Finally, there is nothing new here folks.. Cameron doesn't do a Jose style mod any better than any of the other respected and RELIABLE builders on this forum. Tone chasing can be very dangerous indeed.

 

[projectx102]

We could call it something else but the truth is its a Cameron, his designs are the "Cameron Tone" we separate the man from the product. Calling it something else would be easier for us but people know and love the Cameron tone even if they don't love him. I totally get what you guys are saying but we will stick with the name.

Its good for you to separate Mark from HIS product.  Now you don't have to pay him for "HIS" tone, and you get the name to boot.  It's now "yours".  You guys are of the same ilk.



I notice you never addressed getting the owed amps to anyone. I knew you would never follow through. Hence the reason for this thread.  Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. 

My more colorful reply edited by me. (Thanks Lester for the Post below)

I am one of the 12 or 14 people that are owed a CCV from "Cameron Amps".

Here is where your wrong, you are owed a CCV from Mark Cameron NOT from Cameron Amps. You gave your money to Mark Cameron, he does not now and never has worked for me or had anything to do with the company I reassembled with his design I licensed.

You went into business with a shady character (which has shady undertones in itself) knowing that he ripped me and a bunch of others off for thousands.

Another assumption that is dead wrong on your part. I never went into business with Mark Cameron, I actually said in the beginning I would not be in business with Mark Cameron in a Lemonade stand. We licensed his design for a popular product. He was NEVER a anything more that a outside design consultant. Not a employee and certainly not a partner. Never Was! You gave him your dough way before I showed up.

I am not going to get into a pissing match with you when you won't even man up with your real name. Dude your logged in with your work IP at the Honda store in Trenton NJ. Its the same one you use with your regular screen name.

I don't suffer fools well, you want an answer for you, the answer for you is good Luck tracking down the guy who took your money and getting made whole by him, it won't be from me. I suggest you start your search in North Hollywood. (Travel Tip: If you fly into Burbank instead of LAX its much easier and less crowded).

All the other guys hang in there and we will figure out a way to make you whole one way or another. Remember "AceofSpades" I don't owe you a thing. Nothing, Zip and now my goodwill to you is out the window.

AceofSpades = pwned!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PBGas]

You could call it "King Tone"

 

[steve_k]

. Cameron doesn't do a Jose style mod any better than any of the other respected and RELIABLE builders on this forum.

Ya think?

 

[drewiv]

To Brad King
I'm using an alternate name since I like being a part of this forum and am afraid,like others, of being banned. 

I am one of the 12 or 14 people that are owed a CCV from "Cameron Amps".  You said that you would make it right by getting us our owed amps. You went into business with a shady character (which has shady undertones in itself)  knowing that he ripped me and a bunch of others off for thousands. You threw yourself up on a pedestal claiming to be the savior of Cameron amps and were going to get our owed amps out of Mark Cameron's paid compensation  I've read all of the bullshit about it being after the 4th run...but here you are having problems building AND selling the second run. ALSO...you claim that you have no idea where Mark is or lives...so obviously you are keeping Marks share of profits from Cameron Amps. Why can't you put 100% of that money toward the 12-14 owed amps. I've been talking to a bunch of people and I know it only costs $1,800-$2,000 to build a CCV, so based on the profits you made you clearly have enough of Mark's money to build us our amps since you made us pay additional money (almost enough to cover 100% of the build cost) to you...like a ransom.  I had to pay $1,000 additional. 

It's bad enough that you keep pushing off the second run of CCV's, and based on one of George M's post, he seems to be having problems building it as well. There is a lack of communication between the builder and owner since the 2nd run ahold be shipping this month. I bet the delivery will be pushed off again. 

Also, you claim to be the stand up guy... I want you to PUBLICALLY announce that you personally, Brad King, King Guitars, et al will get us our amps as you promised...even if you sell your share of Cameron Amp to a new buyer. I want to see you say that you will be personally involved until the last owed amp is received!!!

I don't want to hear some cry baby story about how hard it is/was to work with Mark Cameron or how hard it is/was to bring an amp to market...you've made a ton of profit off of this project and it's time to live up to your end of the deal. GET US OUR AMPS!!!

I eagerly await your response. 

I would like to nominate this past as the biggest douchebag post of 2012.

Clearly, the individual who posted this is a %$#@! moron.

Brad King and the "new" Cameron Amplifiers owes you NOTHING buddy. In fact, they owe none of the people that got screwed by Mark anything.

I was shocked when Brad originally offered to try to make things right for those owed by Mark. I know this won't be a popular comment, and I know there are some solid forum members here who did get screwed by Mark and I truly feel for them, but I wouldn't look badly upon Brad at all if he announced today that he will be unable to make things right for all of these people. Again, he has no legal or moral obligation to do so and, with all of the BULLSHIT posts he has had to put up with about this over the past year, I couldn't blame him for just saying "sorry all, but it's your problem to deal with."

To the OP: stop airing your dirty old laundry on the forum. Deal with Brad directly. And grow the fuck up.

+1, Rob.

I couldn't have put it better if I took all day.

 

[jcj]

@ bonedarrell


Well, I actually DO know the terms of the arrangement with Mark, and Mark was never being paid to assemble amps, he was being paid (a percentage) for his designs. Barrang (sp?) was being paid for the builds, and now George is being paid for the builds.

Assembly was always factored in, only the assembler has changed. Does that affect the cost of the build? Probably, I don't have any first hand knowledge of that, hence my statement about profit/sales.

Brad has always said he would take care of thoise people, and knowing Brad, he will; as soon as the money that WOULD have gone to Mark is enough to cover that expense.

Again, Mark was being paid a percentage for his past and continued design work, nothing more.

 

[rlord1974]

Not sure why anyone would ever have bothered buying a Cameron.. the guy has a bad reputation for a reason.

I take it then that you have never owned a Cameron?

Finally, there is nothing new here folks.. Cameron doesn't do a Jose style mod any better than any of the other respected and RELIABLE builders on this forum.

If you have never owned a Cameron, how can you say this? And for the love of God, please don't tell me that your opinion is based on clips on the Internet.....

 

[Gearhog]

You could call it "King Tone"

+1
KKV King Kong vintage.
KKM King Kong modern.
King Atomica JA100
King Bitch.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

If you have never owned a Cameron, how can you say this? And for the love of God, please don't tell me that your opinion is based on clips on the Internet.....

Based on clips on the internet! lol... I use my ears and when comparing mic'ed up clips, I think I get the idea. Enough to not want to roll the dice on a cameron and whether I will get one or not!

Kapo_Polenton wrote:
. Cameron doesn't do a Jose style mod any better than any of the other respected and RELIABLE builders on this forum.


Ya think?

Yep.. pretty sure there are only so many ways you can skin this Jose mod!

 

[glip22]

. Cameron doesn't do a Jose style mod any better than any of the other respected and RELIABLE builders on this forum.

Ya think?

Then why have so many of these respectable builders went to great lenghts to get their hands on Mark's amps. Have to disagree with you on this one at least based on my experience. Steve's experience don't mean shit either. He's only had one amp for the last six years.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Then why have so many of these respectable builders went to great lenghts to get their hands on Mark's amps. Have to disagree with you on this one at least based on my experience. Steve's experience don't mean shit either. He's only had one amp for the last six years.

By now would they not have already reverse engineered that? These amps are out there.. all I am saying is that whether they ripped off his take on it or not, the knowledge has got to be out there already and I bet in a blind test you'd be hard pressed to single out the Cameron. Pretty strong Cameron following here and I get that, but not delivering on amps is pretty lame. (talking Cameron here, not Brad in any way)

Anyway, i'd love a blind shoot out of 5 Jose takes with one of them being a Cameron. That'll shut me up if it is that obvious I can admit when I am wrong.

 

[Gorehog]

We could call it something else but the truth is its a Cameron, his designs are the "Cameron Tone" we separate the man from the product. Calling it something else would be easier for us but people know and love the Cameron tone even if they don't love him. I totally get what you guys are saying but we will stick with the name.

As far as the suggestions toward a name change +1. I was under the impression the CCV was designed after the original Atomica, Which was Jose's design. The high and low gain Jose's are Jose's designs. I've only known of Mark for a few years because he was doing Jose mods, and because of his infamous business dealings. I've known who Jose was for thirty years. To me the Cameron tone is Jose Modified Marshall tone, the Jose crunch. Some of the players who's tone Jose had a hand in were, Reb Beach, Mick Mars, EVH, Steve Stevens, George Lynch, Joe Holmes, John Sykes, loudness, keel, Peter Frampton, Steve Farris, Richie Sambora, Metallica, Warren Demartini, Neal Schon, Jake E Lee, Steve Vai, and little old me. If Mark was in charge of getting all these people there Jose modified Marshalls, the 80s would have sounded like the 70s. In my opinion a lot more people might be interested in amps knowingly based on Jose Arrendondos designs, who was probably the most famous amp tech of all time. Also there are a lot more killer Jose designs to expand upon in the future. With your consistant parts and build quality you can make all of his designs sound great, instead of the hit and miss that comes with modding old heads. I totally support your company and want one of each. And it would be cool if more credit was given where credit is due. Jose was a really good old dude, he was also not a flake. Anyway, my red head when I get it will be referred to as my KING Atomica JA100.

keep in mind,just as Mark Cameron and Cameron amps are not to be confused with each other.

neither are gearhog and gorehog.

thank you.

 

[glip22]

Then why have so many of these respectable builders went to great lenghts to get their hands on Mark's amps. Have to disagree with you on this one at least based on my experience. Steve's experience don't mean shit either. He's only had one amp for the last six years.

By now would they not have already reverse engineered that? These amps are out there.. all I am saying is that whether they ripped off his take on it or not, the knowledge has got to be out there already and I bet in a blind test you'd be hard pressed to single out the Cameron. Pretty strong Cameron following here and I get that, but not delivering on amps is pretty lame. (talking Cameron here, not Brad in any way)

Anyway, i'd love a blind shoot out of 5 Jose takes with one of them being a Cameron. That'll shut me up if it is that obvious I can admit when I am wrong.

The only way to get one is to buy it off of Ebay or a classified. Based on the clips I understand where you are coming from. You can really tell how Cameron amps feel and sound in the room from clips. I get it. Makes sense to me. Not. Bottom line is every one of Mark's amps are tweaked by Mark per each amp. No one of them will be exactly the same. Thats a major part of what makes them so good. At least to me. You cannot reverse engineer that. No way. Not possible. Just ask Danny at Standel amps. He found out there was no way to cost effectively put a true Cameron amp into production. People who understand what a Cameron amp really is know this. Obviously you do not.

 

[bonedarrell]

@ bonedarrell


Well, I actually DO know the terms of the arrangement with Mark, and Mark was never being paid to assemble amps, he was being paid (a percentage) for his designs. Barrang (sp?) was being paid for the builds, and now George is being paid for the builds.

Assembly was always factored in, only the assembler has changed. Does that affect the cost of the build? Probably, I don't have any first hand knowledge of that, hence my statement about profit/sales.

Brad has always said he would take care of thoise people, and knowing Brad, he will; as soon as the money that WOULD have gone to Mark is enough to cover that expense.

Again, Mark was being paid a percentage for his past and continued design work, nothing more.

Josh....that being the business arrangement does not clarify how much Mark's percentage was going to be. Bringing in George and all of the logistics surrounding that could have very easily changed the numbers. So it is your understanding that Brad should take on the financial responsibility of Mark's debts?? Makes no sense to me. I can see the logic pertaining to "if Mark stayed around that Brad would have his finger on the pulse of encouraging Mark to complete his transactions with victims". That makes sense and supports Brad's good character. But this is all speculation on my part. I just see it as poor taste to attempt to hold Brad's feet to the fire now that Mark has disappeared. All I know is I, fortunately, had no business dispute with Mark that I am now trying to pin on Brad and that I now have an Atomica on the way thank to a good business transaction with Brad. He went above and beyond making sure I was a happy customer.

 

[Digital Jams]

Then why have so many of these respectable builders went to great lenghts to get their hands on Mark's amps. Have to disagree with you on this one at least based on my experience. Steve's experience don't mean shit either. He's only had one amp for the last six years.

By now would they not have already reverse engineered that? These amps are out there.. all I am saying is that whether they ripped off his take on it or not, the knowledge has got to be out there already and I bet in a blind test you'd be hard pressed to single out the Cameron. Pretty strong Cameron following here and I get that, but not delivering on amps is pretty lame. (talking Cameron here, not Brad in any way)

Anyway, i'd love a blind shoot out of 5 Jose takes with one of them being a Cameron. That'll shut me up if it is that obvious I can admit when I am wrong.

Been in the room with Camerons and other Jose modded amps and they are stupid close, after some talk and continued play yeah you can tell them apart but that is live and after some discussion. Blind taste test with clips I would love to see the results because it would be comic gold. My guess 4-6 guys on this board would get it right 100% of the time, the rest would fail. Also depends on the donor amp, some platforms are better to start with than others.

Everyone always seems to forget, 6-7 years ago cameron was the only game in town but now there are 6-8 choices to get that tone pretty much.

 

[johnpace2]

I'm one of those who is owed a CCV and cab from the pre-Brad days. I understand the frustration, but yelling at Brad isn't going to help. All we can do is wait and try to remain optimistic.

Brad did say in another thread that 2 of the lost CCV's had been provided. I just hope they were in the order of those who had been waiting the longest, otherwise, that would be pretty frustrating. Assuming that the two who were provided amps were #1 and #2 on the list, I should be next. = )

I think the OP is just trolling anyway, but I still thank Brad for doing what he can.