Bogner Ecstasy 20th Anniversary : 6L6 vs EL34

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rlord1974":2if11zut said:
^ perhaps, but just because they sell more EL34 versions doesn't mean it's the better sounding of the two. I'm a betting man, and I would be comfortable wagering that > 50% of the EL34 models sold were ordered by people that had never heard the EL34 model in person but just "had to have" EL34s in their amp.
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Could be. It certainly doesn't mean that it's the lesser sounding of the two. Just passing on what I was told. :)
 
Stratpuppy":2hcgnngh said:
bonedarrell":2hcgnngh said:
Traditionally, EL-34s are my preferred tube for crunch and high gain. I will also mention that I have only heard a 101b in comparison to my 6L6 20th Anniv. XTC. All of that being said, I couldn't be happier with the 6L6 version. I don't feel as I am missing any "EL-34 tones" and I picked up a much better clean channel with the 6L6 version.
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Thanks - did you try the 20th EL34 too?
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No. Only a 101b
 
Had both versions. Much happier with the 6L6, although the EL34 version is still quite nice. Most noticeably, I found the 6L6 amp more open and dynamic with more punch and balance to the frequencies. The midrange on the 34 version could get boxy, whereas the 6L6 is more pleasing to my ear when turned past noon. The clean channel is a big improvement. A lot of sparkle and chime (Fender style), while the EL34 version had more of a piano-like clean. I bought the amp thinking I just had to have EL34's to be happy. I tried KT77's before having it modded by Bogner. This was closer to what I wanted (more open, more responsive to dynamics, but still a bit strident in the mids), but the 6L6 was a home run.
 
6L6's are best in the XTC 20th. I've owned both and EL34's kind of limit what the 20th was designed for - wider breadth and extended highs. The 20th XTC has amazing dynamics and the clean channel provides some of the best cleans I have ever heard. I'm not saying that EL34's don't sound great, but I think 6L6's just fit best after going back and forth many times. They also change the feel a bit. Though I am one of those people who typically prefer EL34's, there are some cases where 6L6's just work best, and the 20th XTC is definitely one of them.

I went through the same thing over and over again with the Shiva 20th until I finally figured out that it's best the way Bogner designed it around KT88's. There is a 6V6 version which I have played, and if you really insist on avoiding 6L6's, the 6V6 version is a better choice than EL34's in my opinion. They have a midrange shape that's closer to EL34's, more low-end and definition than EL84's, and sound as good as 6L6's for clean an crunch sounds... in my opinion of course. I'm not going to argue 6V6's vs. XXX, I'm just saying what I've experienced.
 
My 20th Anniv XTC was the 6l6 version. I loved it and believe one of my clips is included in the YouTube links above. It was seriously one of the best tube amps I ever owned and could do just about anything. The Plexi mode was just killer. I just plain loved that amp.

Here are a couple of clips I recorded with mine:

Red Channel w/ Boost engaged
https://soundcloud.com/gibson5413/xtc-d ... ou-love-me

Blue Channel w/ Boost engaged


Blue Channel w/Plexi mode (used a BB Preamp for the lead)
 
se7en":12sl0tbz said:
Had both versions. Much happier with the 6L6, although the EL34 version is still quite nice. Most noticeably, I found the 6L6 amp more open and dynamic with more punch and balance to the frequencies. The midrange on the 34 version could get boxy, whereas the 6L6 is more pleasing to my ear when turned past noon. The clean channel is a big improvement. A lot of sparkle and chime (Fender style), while the EL34 version had more of a piano-like clean. I bought the amp thinking I just had to have EL34's to be happy. I tried KT77's before having it modded by Bogner. This was closer to what I wanted (more open, more responsive to dynamics, but still a bit strident in the mids), but the 6L6 was a home run.
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I have to agree I'm typically an EL34 guy all the way and the EL34 20th sounds great of course. :thumbsup:

But the 6L6 version still retains all of the signature Bogner midrange content while at the same time delivering one of the best clean channels in a channel switcher I've ever heard. :)
 
Is it possible to convert an EL34 20th XTC to 6L6 without sending the amp in to Bogner? What exactly must be done (wiring in a resistance)?
 
born_hard":rgiie0q1 said:
Is it possible to convert an EL34 20th XTC to 6L6 without sending the amp in to Bogner? What exactly must be done (wiring in a resistance)?
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You need a new output transformer in addition to the tube change/bias. When you send it back to Bogner, they'll count your current OT towards a new one. The feel is really nice with the change. It's just right there. Not too stiff, not too much give. More dynamic and touch sensitive as well IMO.
 
So I just thought I would provide an update - just a/b'd an el34 20th and a 101b side by side and left the store with the 101b. Couldn't be happier.
 
Cool, congrats, it is a bit funny how they sell far more EL34 20ths than 6L6 and everyone in this thread it seems but me said the 6L6 is "better". I had all 3 amps and only have the 20th EL34 now. Better is a subjective word I guess. I will say the 101b stayed longer and 6L6 20th was the first one I sold off (to Gibson 5413 I believe so it wasn't like a "bad one" or anything). Never know what floats your boat. I think the 20th EL34 using EL34BHT tubes is the best of the 3 for me and what I wanted out of my amp. I did love my 101b though and would have been happy to keep just that if I had to. Regardless of which model I personally think they are brilliant amps with unbelievable versatility not match by many other amps regardless of the version or flavor.
 
I think so many feel that EL34s are the sound of rock. Even though the 6l6 is the basis for the SLO and Mesa amps many consider to be benchmark tones as well. I think the guys at Bogner propbably have the best take on it. I tend to think Reinhold Bogner probably has the best idea of what the amp should run with...Since he created it.

Power tube selection can often be over rated. The circuit means more than anything on how an amp sounds. It's not like you can rebias a Marshall with 6l6s and it all of a sudden sounds like a Twin Reverb.
 
If Reinhold designed it around 6L6's, then there ya go. I had both and much prefer 6L6. It's not even close. Just more balanced and dynamic.
 
OK but the 101 was originally 6L6 too (101A) and we know where that ended up, all EL34 101b's. Whatever, I owned both at the same time, easy A/B and I kept the one I liked better...it was the EL34. Its a voicing option, for me its closer to a little more of that Marshall midrange. To me the 6L6 was more modern, missing a bit of that midrange punch that I like and had more top and bottom but it didn't cut as well in the band. Regardless they are all great amps. And if Reinhold felt that strongly about it there would be no EL34 version. When they were new very few picked the 6L6 over the EL34 version.
 
se7en":3kx3we6z said:
If Reinhold designed it around 6L6's, then there ya go. I had both and much prefer 6L6. It's not even close. Just more balanced and dynamic.
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I agree, normally I'm biased towards EL34's and it's a knee jerk reaction to want a Bogner loaded with them.

But in the case of the 20th it really is voiced around 6L6's, there's so much midrange already in the circuit. :lol: :LOL:
 
Shiny_Surface":3scxk1qi said:
se7en":3scxk1qi said:
If Reinhold designed it around 6L6's, then there ya go. I had both and much prefer 6L6. It's not even close. Just more balanced and dynamic.
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I agree, normally I'm biased towards EL34's and it's a knee jerk reaction to want a Bogner loaded with them.

But in the case of the 20th it really is voiced around 6L6's, there's so much midrange already in the circuit. :lol: :LOL:
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Yeah, I didn't want to believe it either and ordered the EL34 version. I found the EL34's boxy in the midrange and more compressed with less dynamics. The lower compression of the 6L6 version helps cut through the band mix better and I found it more touch sensitive (different OT?). I was having some problems cutting with 34's and fighting the feel a bit (same with the 101b). The 20th was designed around 6L6's because of the components used. There is already plenty of midrange with the Sozo caps and the amp's design. From what I heard from Bogner was that some people just have to have EL34's and that they prefer 6L6 there (Reinhold, Jorg, etc.) I've let other people play both amps and the 6L6 is where it's at for us. It's like an SLO. I wouldn't put 34's in there because the amp has already been optimized for 5881/6L6.
 
OK you guys must be right...because you say so....I disagree totally and owned all 3 amps at the same time...played gigs with all 3. Maybe you had the wrong EL34's or wasn't bias properly. I didn't like mine with winged C's El34's as much as what I have in there now. Maybe my ears or what I like in tone. There is no right answer on this so please don't be so definitive. That's why they make both versions.
 
I also prefer the EL34 version of this amp. I've had both in my possession, as well.

Yes, I'm selling mine, but not because I don't like the amp. I'm selling because I've been using the Goldfinger almost exclusively lately. That amp just fits what I'm doing these days better than the XTC does (whether it's a 100B, 101A/B, Anniversary A/B, etc…). I'm not in a rush to get of the amp either, if it sells, cool. If not, that's cool too. I love the amp, I just don't really NEED it at this point. The Goldfinger has been my primary for the past couple years.
 
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