Bugera Amplifiers

Dear Yeti,

The answer is very simple: As long as people don’t infringe on our protected IP, we certainly have no problem. If a design is not protected, everyone is entitled to use it.

This is the principle in any industry and the basis how the world evolves.

How many Strat type guitars are out there?

Best regards,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BUGERA
 
it doesn't matter what i think really, or what gets said in these threads...i've come to realize that.

the cream always rises to the top. in your case, on a wide scale people will either come to accept the bugera brand, or not. it's that simple. whether or not that's in an entry level market selling well, or regarded with derision and marginalizing on a cork sniffing website or even a mid level pricing gear website, remains to be seen. i guess the only place that matters for the company though is the bottom line.
if you say you're doing what you should regarding warrant, parts and components, then good on you guys!

my next amp will be a mesa mark v. i've had my heart set on one for a long time now. nothing will sway me from that.
 
rlord1974":3bckw95z said:
bhuard75":3bckw95z said:
Who cares what they model their product line after. Is it that different than what those MTS guys salvation and jaded faith do? Or fractual stuffing all those amp models into one package. Its all the same crap no matter how you spin it.

Who cares.

Agree 100%. If it's not patented, it's fair game. If it is patented but a vastly similar product can be made without infringing on the patent, still fair game.

Everyone needs to get the knots out of their knickers.


this covers it pretty well. if you have an original design/concept and the US patent office issues you a patent number you have an exclusive (for a reasonable period of time, like the original light bulb, or storage battery, or hypertension medication).
i have served on 2 juries in Federal court on cases dealing with patent infringement over the years and i can tell you that if your logic was applied to products/technology worldwide there would be one soft drink, one toilet tissue, one guitar string, and on, and on, and on.
there is common sense, and then there is McDonalds getting a trademark exclusive for "I'm Lovin it"- a term probably uttered by a million people, a million times before Ronald got his "exclusive" use of it.
There are laws, import laws in particular, to cover "conterfeits" being sold in the US. And if you feel those laws are being broken feel free to report those incidents to the proper authorities. but, don't be surprised when they laugh and hang up the phone like it was a crank call if you report Bugera, or Jet City, or Mesa for that matter in the sense that it is being argued here.
i understand brand loyalty, i really do, and it can be admirable. but just because i happen to like Macallan single malt Scotch whiskey doesn't mean that every other distiller on the planet stole their idea.
 
Stolen designs or not, nothing takes away from the fact that they are built cheaply and break as a result. Ebay or not when I bought mine, I knew they broke and wanted to see how long it took while gigging... There was a reason I bought 3... one of them broke the first show.

Like I said... People do not mind paying for quality... Keep the same designs and build some quality into those amps and you might have something decent... With anything from the Music Corp though, it's built cheap and sold cheap... You do the math.
 
I had a bugera 4x12 for about a month until picked up a different cab. I was between cabs and got the bugera in a pinch. Sounded like complete ass, it made my recto tone awful.

also, it was supposedly a 100 watt cab, my 50 watt recto blew a speaker.
 
Phil Jacques":30nquwnv said:
Stolen designs or not, nothing takes away from the fact that they are built cheaply and break as a result. Ebay or not when I bought mine, I knew they broke and wanted to see how long it took while gigging... There was a reason I bought 3... one of them broke the first show.

Like I said... People do not mind paying for quality... Keep the same designs and build some quality into those amps and you might have something decent... With anything from the Music Corp though, it's built cheap and sold cheap... You do the math.

So.... you bought three new amps knowing they were going to break? :loco:
 
HAHAHA! I spent a total of about $500 on all of them... It was from that government stimulation free money they gave us here in the US a few years back lol! Didn't hurt my pocket any.
 
Wow. Interesting thread. We have Bugera HQ cats right here, in this thread.

First up thanks for taking the time to join the discussion.

I have no hate-on for Bugera. I simply choose not to buy 'em or use 'em. But here's the rub, if I were some 12 year old kid, or a starving student who needed a wider range of tones from a head, or simply wanted to buy my kid something I wasn't overly worried about, Bugera would be ace. Just as much as we Diezel, Friedman, Bogner, Rhodes, Wizard snobs feel can defend our booteek amps of choice; there's a much larger contingent of weekend warriors, kids, teens, beginners, and simply - financially less equipped - individuals who'll defend their ownership of Bugera. It's all perception, and it's all personal choice. Where as this forum is focused on a lot of the more niche specifics of tone-minded players; Bugera is catering to a niche with more generalized wants and less layout of coin.

As for IP theft. C'mon, it's been Fender and Marshall since the 50s, everything after that was a smudge on the original design. And sure, granted, you can go all the way over to Soldano as being unique and then Friedman as being the main thief of basic English circuit design. Who cares? We have a lot of amps to choose from, all catering to different tonal palettes. And with the addition of companies like Bugera, there are amps that appeal to different price palettes too.

It's all good. Play more, bitch less.
Peace,
Mo
 
zepplin490":2ymxgb97 said:
Wow when i first posted this subject I had no Idea what a shit storm ... keep at it folks!
-mp-

Bugera threads are almost always like this. It's pretty clear to me why the Bugera folks chimed in on this and the other thread. They realized that people have a bad perception over their products and brand and are trying to address that. They are clearly well versed in their products and also in marketing techniques. I am impressed with their mastery of 'corporate speak'. Its pretty clear to me that they are not looking for suggestions about how to improve their products or brand image, but looking to defend their brand image. It's too bad, but not surprising, that they are not open to take suggestions on how to improve their products and brand image.
 
My problem with Bugera is their horrendous quality and a very well documented failure rate on another forum. Yes, they are made in China and aren't going to stand up to Peavey or Mesa's quality. However there is another Chinese outfit making cheap copies of amps: Jet City. And their amps do not resemble a subpar product on the inside. (Large gutshot pictures of Bugera are hard to find)


Here's a 333 gutshot:
IMG_3287.jpg


And a 333XL Infinium:
7206890916_6f82975056.jpg


Now, let's compare that to Jet City's JCA100HDM:
224971-jet-city-userthread-jca100hdm-gutshot-03.jpg



Jet City proudly uses extra thick industrial grade PCB with thick heavy traces, well spaced components for easy repair/mod work, heavy gauge cold-rolled steel chassis's, and voidless 13-ply birch shells. Even the transformers are massive. Mike Soldano personally visited the Chinese facility where they were made, numerous times, to ensure all the components were up to his spec and everything was going the way he wanted it to. Jet City is a prime example of how Chinese-built amps should be done. Bugera/Behringer are tinkertoys compared to their Chinese brethren in terms of overall quality and internal build.


Even Jet City's cheapest amp, the JCA20H, is constructed VERY well. I cannot find internals of a Picovalve, but I wouldn't be surprised to find a similar construction.
picture006kl.jpg
 
To me it looks like Bugera is built like a computer instead of an amp, look at the PSU for example. If Bugera would up their build quality and durableness I wouldn't be as disappointed and against their products. Instead they introduce even more circuitry and market it as "better", when in fact they have the same failure rate as before and more crap to diagnose.

I don't require a built-in meter to tell me when tubes are bad (it's pretty easy to figure it out), that's like having a computer on a pencil that tells me the point isn't sharp anymore. However I do require an amp that will take road abuse.
 
Dear Blackba,

Let me first start by saying that it is our company’s policy to post with our full identity as we believe in an open and honest approach, rather than hide behind anonymity. We also like to thank the people here who have welcomed us to participate.

We are here to respond with facts and stay away from topics where we cannot respond meaningfully. We certainly accept everyone’s opinion and all we’re asking is to engage each other respectfully and politely.

We certainly understand that there are always “haters.” We have encountered several posts about allegedly “defective” amps and when we followed up, offered help, and asked for serial numbers, we didn’t get a response. We can only assume that these are people who have different motives or who are really competitors trying to discredit our brand.

There are other great brands and amps out there - isn’t it wonderful that we have choices?

Since you mentioned that “we are not here to look for suggestions how to improve our products,” why don’t you make a suggestion so we can start a great conversation?

Best regards,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BUGERA
 
Joe, I personally do everything I can not to buy products made in China but kudos to you for putting up a good fight for the hand that feeds you. :thumbsup:
 
Joe Sanborn":39l3budp said:
Dear Blackba,

Let me first start by saying that it is our company’s policy to post with our full identity as we believe in an open and honest approach, rather than hide behind anonymity. We also like to thank the people here who have welcomed us to participate.

We are here to respond with facts and stay away from topics where we cannot respond meaningfully. We certainly accept everyone’s opinion and all we’re asking is to engage each other respectfully and politely.

We certainly understand that there are always “haters.” We have encountered several posts about allegedly “defective” amps and when we followed up, offered help, and asked for serial numbers, we didn’t get a response. We can only assume that these are people who have different motives or who are really competitors trying to discredit our brand.

There are other great brands and amps out there - isn’t it wonderful that we have choices?

Since you mentioned that “we are not here to look for suggestions how to improve our products,” why don’t you make a suggestion so we can start a great conversation?

Best regards,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BUGERA

All my suggestions/issues have already been posted by others in the 2 recent Bugera threads. I have already seen your responses to those issues. I don't see any point to bringing these up again for you to reply with your impressive marketing vocabulary. You are here to change people's perception to Bugeras amps, not to change your product as a result of some average Joe on the Internet.
 
LP Freak":2em5mfqq said:
Joe, I personally do everything I can not to buy products made in China but kudos to you for putting up a good fight for the hand that feeds you. :thumbsup:


Same here!!!! And why would anyone even bother to mention a Bugera on this forum anyways!!! :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 
Dear Flux’D,

We see that you just joined the forum, specifically “mentioning” a competitor while criticizing our brand.

Allow us to correct some of your statements.

The amps you are referring to simply cannot compare in complexity and component count. The BUGERA 333 and 333XL amps shown here are highly complex products with many more channels and controls, our Infinium Micro-Processor to bias the power tubes, a digital reverb, and much more complex circuitry that results in a vastly increased component count and complex wiring.
If you like to compare simple designs and PCB layouts, perhaps you should look at our V5 or V22 which are more in line with the simple PCB designs you are referring to.

When it comes to component quality, we use FR4 double-sided fiberglass PCB’s, full steel chassis, oversized transformers, 105 degree e-caps, etc. Rather than making derogatory statements about our overall quality, perhaps you would like to discuss individual components in detail so we make this a more meaningful discussion?

Failure reports stem from an early defective connector, something we fixed 5 years ago. Unfortunately, these things happen in any industry otherwise there wouldn’t be any car recalls or plane groundings over a battery problem. This problem is long gone, we stood up and helped our customers. Based on feedback from our dealers such as Thomann and Guitar Center, we have one of the lowest failure rates in the industry.

This has made it easy to offer a 3-Year Warranty Program on all products. But rather than taking our word for it, please reach out to these retailers and get first-hand information.

As I mentioned earlier, we are proud to be Europe’s number one tube amp brand and the V22 is the best-selling amp overall based on Europe’s largest retailer Thomann who publishes its numbers. We are also very pleased that GC is about to expand the BUGERA offerings due to the very positive response the V22 and V5 have achieved.

We have been building products for over 24 years and our factory makes over 5 million products a year. You can easily understand that with the small margin we are making on our products, any major failure rate would easily bankrupt our Company. That’s why our focus on quality is a constant never-ending process.
The rule in manufacturing is that the higher the production volume is, the more attention you have to pay to quality and that’s why we have a rigorous quality department where we “torture” components in temperature, humidity, and salt water corrosion chambers, do drop tests where we drop products to simulate shipment conditions and life cycle tests where we move VR’s and switches hundreds of thousands of times.

Two years ago, we invested over $20 million in one of the most sophisticated and automated plants. By making products in our own factory, we are able to control quality and cost. Unlike other competitors who often use 3rd party manufacturers, our factory does not have to make a profit. In many cases, we are buying the exact same components but in millions of quantities and so we get prices for a fraction of what other manufacturers have to pay.

It has always been our philosophy to pass on these savings to the end users and this is the reason why we can offer BUGERA amps at such low prices.

Best regards,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BUGERA
 
Any new models/revisions of amps to be released in the near future?
 
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