Bugera TriRec Vs. Mesa Dual Recto (Video)

[TheMagicEight]

300 billion in a drop in the bucket as far as US-China goes, really.

Go on....

 

[borninwinter]

Do you also throw trash out of your car window because you're miniscule in comparison to the entire population?

Throwing trash out the window is a negative thing inherently. We're talking about choosing between two guitar amplifiers.

 

[borninwinter]

300 billion in a drop in the bucket as far as US-China goes, really.

Go on....

One year vs over time. How much we already owe them. How much we plan to borrow going forward.

 

[TheMagicEight]

One year vs over time. How much we already owe them. How much we plan to borrow going forward.

So we should ignore the problem and let it happen....?

 

[some dude]

Where do you supposed those big soldering machines and other equipment that Mesa uses in that video is made? No Chinese parts in there, I'm sure...

I'm suppose we should throw out the baby with the bath water...

The point is that people are greatly amplifying ( ) the actual impact of their personal choices and how much of a difference "buying American" actually makes anymore. Not that anyone doesn't want to support the home team, but reality is what it is. Across the board, most consumer products are manufactured in China and there is no choice. 300 billion in a drop in the bucket as far as US-China goes, really.

My point is that throwing the baby out with the bath water shows a lack of foresight.

The truth is that you're already defeated, and worse is that you're using that defeatist mindset as a justification for making no effort to improve anything for your fellow Americans and you argue that everyone else should do the same. You have the option to do more, but China's already won so why bother...

But let me guess... you're just one dude. What you do doesn't matter. You could buy all American and you still wouldn't make a significant difference, so why bother?

Why bother? Because there's millions of other dudes out their with your shitty, defeatist attitude that can't bother to do anything about their lot in life and choose to accept things meekly instead of voting with their fucking dollar.

 

[borninwinter]

One year vs over time. How much we already owe them. How much we plan to borrow going forward.

So we should ignore the problem and let it happen....?

It's already happened. You can't change that by your retail choices. It's calling for a band-aid when someone has been shot point blank in the face with a 12 gauge. I definitely would support a reduction in our future borrowing plans though.

 

[TheMagicEight]

My point is that throwing the baby out with the bath water shows a lack of foresight.

The truth is that you're already defeated, and worse is that you're using that defeatist mindset as a justification for making no effort to improve anything for your fellow Americans and you argue that everyone else should do the same. You have the option to do more, but China's already won so why bother...

But let me guess... you're just one dude. What you do doesn't matter. You could buy all American and you still wouldn't make a significant difference, so why bother?

Why bother? Because there's millions of other dudes out their with your shitty, defeatist attitude that can't bother to do anything about their lot in life and choose to accept things meekly instead of voting with their fucking dollar.

And my (our?) generation gets pay for it all.

 

[borninwinter]

Where do you supposed those big soldering machines and other equipment that Mesa uses in that video is made? No Chinese parts in there, I'm sure...

I'm suppose we should throw out the baby with the bath water...

The point is that people are greatly amplifying ( ) the actual impact of their personal choices and how much of a difference "buying American" actually makes anymore. Not that anyone doesn't want to support the home team, but reality is what it is. Across the board, most consumer products are manufactured in China and there is no choice. 300 billion in a drop in the bucket as far as US-China goes, really.

My point is that throwing the baby out with the bath water shows a lack of foresight.

The truth is that you're already defeated, and worse is that you're using that defeatist mindset as a justification for making no effort to improve anything for your fellow Americans and you argue that everyone else should do the same. You have the option to do more, but China's already won so why bother...

But let me guess... you're just one dude. What you do doesn't matter. You could buy all American and you still wouldn't make a significant difference, so why bother?

Why bother? Because there's millions of other dudes out their with your shitty, defeatist attitude that can't bother to do anything about their lot in life and choose to accept things meekly instead of voting with their fucking dollar.

Personally, I'm not buying Bugera anyway and I'm not going out of my way to support Chinese products. I had a Mesa, but it didn't do it for me so I sold it.

It's not defeatist, it's the reality of the situation. We're way past "voting with your dollar." I don't think it's a good thing, but it's true. It's just vanity to think you can change the world with your amp purchase decision.

 

[TheMagicEight]

We're way past "voting with your dollar."

Sorry, but you are wrong.

 

[borninwinter]

We're way past "voting with your dollar."

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Based on what? We're talking about trillions and billions here and you're talking about an $800 amp that might move a few hundred units.

 

[borninwinter]

Where do you supposed those big soldering machines and other equipment that Mesa uses in that video is made? No Chinese parts in there, I'm sure...

Something industrial like that? Probably a lot less than you think. Much more likely German. I doubt Mesa would skimp on quality.

No Chinese parts in the machines, though?

 

[blackba]

 

[TheMagicEight]

We're way past "voting with your dollar."

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Based on what? We're talking about trillions and billions here and you're talking about an $800 amp that might move a few hundred units.

Your argument is that buying this amplifier makes such a small difference to the economy that it's negligible. My argument is that despite it making only a miniscule difference, it still makes a difference. And multiplied across the millions of Chinese products bought every day in the US, where an American counterpart is still sold, absolutely makes a difference.

You don't vote with your dollar? Absolutely wrong. The idea behind a free market is that you vote with your dollar. If everyone stopped buying Chinese goods in America, they'd stop selling them here. If everyone stopped buying America goods here, they'd stop making them, as in many cases, they have.

As some dude put it, your mindset is that of a defeatist.

I'm not interested in continuing this debate. I've demonstrated my POV well enough in this thread, and won't be replying further.

 

[borninwinter]

We're way past "voting with your dollar."

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Based on what? We're talking about trillions and billions here and you're talking about an $800 amp that might move a few hundred units.

Your argument is that buying this amplifier makes such a small difference to the economy that it's negligible. My argument is that despite it making only a miniscule difference, it still makes a difference. And multiplied across the millions of Chinese products bought every day in the US, where an American counterpart is still sold, absolutely makes a difference.

I'm not interested in continuing this debate. I've demonstrated my POV well enough in this thread, and won't be replying further.

No, my argument is that there aren't enough solely American made products left considering all products to make a difference in the big picture considering the trillions involved. We can't get away from Chinese products. Go ahead, try it. American made amps are a very small subset of "all products," so Bugera specifically really, really, really doesn't make a difference. I'm telling you that you identify a valid problem, but spend a lot of energy focusing on something that does not actually address that problem. It's not defeatist to not waste energy on solutions that won't actually produce results. It's all already happened - it would be no different to call (I'll make it bipartisan) Jimmy Carter/Mitt Romney a defeatist in Jan. 1981/2013 because they've given up campaigning.

I'm sure you'll read though

 

[maddnotez]

Great video Fluff, you please the masses! A/B boost, no boost, mix, no mix. Covered it all!!

Im loving the Bugera on this one.

 

[shane159]

I have a few different amps and I use them for tools in my music. I don't care what they cost as long as they serve the purpose. I got a 6260 on a trade and I upgraded the pots and OT, and it has been running great for around 4 years. I bought a Mark lV and I love that amp, but I have had it in the shop about three times in less than two years. I am not saying that the Mesa is a badly built amp and I am aware that Bugera does use crappy components, but at the end of the day they are still just tools for music. I am not even going to go into the made in U.S. vs China debate b/c that is just silly. Thanks for the vid fluff and I agree that the Bugera sounds better in this vid and I would have no issues at all owning one if I was in the need for a high gainer. The Hypocrisy is so strong in so many post's in this thread.

 

[some dude]

Personally, I'm not buying Bugera anyway and I'm not going out of my way to support Chinese products. I had a Mesa, but it didn't do it for me so I sold it.

It's not defeatist, it's the reality of the situation. We're way past "voting with your dollar." I don't think it's a good thing, but it's true. It's just vanity to think you can change the world with your amp purchase decision.

If I buy an American made amp it might generate enough money to keep someone in America employed for a day.

If 261 other people think like me that guy might have a job for a year.

It's not much in the grand scheme of things, but I'm sure his wife and kids appreciate it, and for that family I did change the world... if only for a day.

I'm a realist too... doesn't mean I've been defeated.

 

[borninwinter]

Personally, I'm not buying Bugera anyway and I'm not going out of my way to support Chinese products. I had a Mesa, but it didn't do it for me so I sold it.

It's not defeatist, it's the reality of the situation. We're way past "voting with your dollar." I don't think it's a good thing, but it's true. It's just vanity to think you can change the world with your amp purchase decision.

If I buy an American made amp it might generate enough money to keep someone in America employed for a day.

If 261 other people think like me that guy might have a job for a year.

It's not much in the grand scheme of things, but I'm sure his wife and kids appreciate it, and for that family I did change the world... if only for a day.

I'm a realist too... doesn't mean I've been defeated.

That's a noble enough sentiment. But, you really can't talk about "the economy" in terms of one guy's job. People lose their jobs, companies close, new companies open, people get new jobs in the regular course of things in the free market. It's not entirely clear to me that the current economic problems are primarily based on a lack of American manufacturing jobs - we've been transitioning to a different type of economy for a long time now. There or not, assembling things is a job many Americans aren't particularly interested in these days, which is why you see many factories operating with a large immigrant labor pool. There are other ways to be economically successful that to have a lot of factories. And you're talking like the wolves are at the gate for Mesa...but they're one of the 2 most successful amp companies in the world! That's why they're getting cheap copies and why they're not worried about it!

 

[some dude]

That's a noble enough sentiment. But, you really can't talk about "the economy" in terms of one guy's job. People lose their jobs, companies close, new companies open, people get new jobs in the regular course of things in the free market. It's not entirely clear to me that the current economic problems are primarily based on a lack of American manufacturing jobs - we've been transitioning to a different type of economy for a long time now. There or not, assembling things is a job many Americans aren't particularly interested in these days, which is why you see many factories operating with a large immigrant labor pool. There are other ways to be economically successful that to have a lot of factories. And you're talking like the wolves are at the gate for Mesa...but they're one of the 2 most successful amp companies in the world! That's why they're getting cheap copies and why they're not worried about it!

You keep typing, but all I keep seeing is excuse after excuse.

 

[borninwinter]

That's a noble enough sentiment. But, you really can't talk about "the economy" in terms of one guy's job. People lose their jobs, companies close, new companies open, people get new jobs in the regular course of things in the free market. It's not entirely clear to me that the current economic problems are primarily based on a lack of American manufacturing jobs - we've been transitioning to a different type of economy for a long time now. There or not, assembling things is a job many Americans aren't particularly interested in these days, which is why you see many factories operating with a large immigrant labor pool. There are other ways to be economically successful that to have a lot of factories. And you're talking like the wolves are at the gate for Mesa...but they're one of the 2 most successful amp companies in the world! That's why they're getting cheap copies and why they're not worried about it!

You keep typing, but all I keep seeing is excuse after excuse.

Well, allrighty then. You're right. Your amp is a moral issue and you're a good person because you avoid Bugera. Thanks for taking up the banner of decency and justice in seeking out tha brootz.