Darkest/fattest possible sound

[serpiko]

Hello Everybody, I am new here, I live in Austria where in my spare time I enjoying playing in a Doom Metal Band. I have being playing guitar for over 20 years but only recently I started to appreciate how important the sound is.
So I started my quest for the darkest heaviest sound possible within a decent budget.
What I have in mind is something raw unrefined and sinister, a mix between Sunn 0))) and Electric Wizard and right now I am not satisfied with my rig.
My equipement right now consist in:

In use

Ibanez RGD420z (baritone)
Marshall AVT50h Head
Laney LX412A

Not in use

Kork Ax300g
Boss Fuzz Fz-2
Cabotron (single channel vintage italian head) 150w, probably from the 70s, huge huge power but I have never serviced it for 20 years, probably the valves have to be changed
Cabotron 4x12 angled cabinet, bought together with the head. Speakers have probably seen better days

Arriving soon

Proco Rat (vintage)

Seriously considering

Gibson SGJ 2014 or Gibson SG Baritone


Thanks for any advice

 

[Swemike]

Hmmm... Old tube amp, singel channel, lots of power...without knowing anything about Cabotron amps I'd say get that amp a good service and new tubes, buy a big muff and get back to us.

 

[Spaceboy]

You could go the clean/light crunch platform route and get gnarly fuzz tones, or get a thicker, darker amplifier... ie, Matamp, Orange, Electric Amp, Hovercraft, etc, but many of those style amps are iffy with fuzz and pedal drives. If you're a pedalboard guy, and want to experiment with tones, the fuzz route might be best. If you're a straight into the amp, knobs at ten kind of guy, then there's that, it's also usually cheaper, hah.

 

[madrigal77]

Dual Recto.

 

[thickwood]

You may just may find a great metal gain pedal like Bogner makes is exactly the cure , sounds like your pre amp needs some help but read reviews like Musician friends and get some metal forum help but it could just be you need a great pedal !

 

[LowDesertSludge]

Boosting that FZ-2 will do solid Electric Wizard all day with that Baritone.

 

[godgrinder]

For what you are wanting to do, a suitable dirtbox into a loud clean amp will do fine. Bring that old 150w tube amp to a tech to give it a service and retube.

Your fz-2 on fuzz ii mode will give you instant Electric Wizard tone. The Rat will get you close-ish to the Sunn O))) tone too.

A new pickup in that Ibanez baritone could help tho, look into a Duncan Invader or Dimarzio Super Distortion.

PS: Since you have two amp heads, it's worth getting a small bass cab (1x15" or 2x10") and run a dual amp setup too. For doom/drone type of stuff you might find that more rewarding than upgrading to a good 4x12".

 

[angelspade]

Orange

 

[fappen]

Find a used Laney VH100R, roll back your tone on the guitar, and shove a fuzz (Black Arts Toneworks Black Forest rules) in the front of gain channel. It's bliss. It nails The Obsessed, early Trouble and 80s Pentagram if you fool around the the pedal settings (even turning it off the amp is perfect).

 

[maddnotez]

Orange

This.

Orange = Doom

Wanted to edit. Although I wouldn't call it a "doom" tone. CL100's tend to be pretty dark but they have that dry VHT sig tone but I would also call that pretty raw. Not sure if you've played one of those or not but I've never played the sunn or the other amp that you mentioned.

 

[serpiko]

thanks guys for the interesting infos.
@ Swemike
This right now is my favourite option, I will try with the rat, Fz-2 and Big muff
@ Spaceboy
that´s interesting, as I said I am a total ignorant concerning rig set up, but I was just starting to realise about this two schools of thoughts. Any distortion pedal that I´ve tried in front of the Marshall never sounded right, you could really hear the sound being artificially manipulated before it reached the amp. Therefore right now I go straight into the Marshall.
Nonetheless I guess I´d like to go for the Cabotron+pedals+new cabinet route, even thought the pedals where not sounding good on the Cabotron, but that might have been the cabinet´s fault. I´ve actually tried the Cabotron head over with a Orange cabinet and a Russian Muff and that made me realize that the weakest link was the cabinet.
I know it is risky to choose this approach rather than the sell all and buy some trusted (expensive) alternative, as I very often have experienced "who spends less spends more in the end". But I´d like to give the old Cabotron a shot, it might be the holy Grail for building my very own sound.

 

[serpiko]

@ Godgrinder
the small bass cabinet is a very interesting option, thanks I will keep that in mind.

The only think is that the Cabotron head was very temperamental, some days sounding actually ok and some other days really bad, let´s see what happens with a service and new valves. One thing it didn´t really worked was to use a Swallen Pickle, it sounded really good in the shop but crap with my Cabotron, but than again the ageing speakers on the cabinet might have been the reason.

In the meantime the Rat has arrived and it totally lived up to its promise, it sounds really good even with my old Yamaha RGX 112 and Squier 15 amp (which I haven´t mentioned in the list for obvious reasons). Can´t wait to try it with the Cabotron head

 

[Spaceboy]

If you go with the Cabotron and some pedals, I suggest forgoing most distortion pedals except maybe a Proco Rat when needed, and try out some fuzzes. For stoner doom, Big Muff styled pedals are the key, Black Arts LSTR, Blackout Blunderbuss, Earthquaker Hoof, etc. But there are awesome Fuzz Faces, Tonebenders, Superfuzz, etc clones out there too. I play a handful of Orange amps and it's tough to balance my love of Oranges for straight-in tones and my little fuzz collection, which don't vibe with most Oranges (although the OR50 with master volume disengaged is really enticing at the moment). Just experiment and don't be afraid of loud obnoxious noises, sometimes the nastiest, most abrasive sounding tones are so damn cool in band context with that style of music. Orange cabinets are great. But they heavy and costly. You can get almost any Vintage 30, Greenback, H30, etc loaded cabinet to work for you. I have personally never liked guitars through bass cabs, but I've seen bands make it work before.

 

[Jofipe]

Rockerverbs with 6V6's

 

[serpiko]

@ Spaceboy
is the Greenback G12/M a good speaker for the sound I am after? If so there is this cabinet for sale around my area which I might consider.

 

[Spaceboy]

Those are fantastic cabs, but if Cabotron is 150w that is going to exceed what Greenbacks can handle, which is 25w each.

 

[godgrinder]

The only think is that the Cabotron head was very temperamental, some days sounding actually ok and some other days really bad, let´s see what happens with a service and new valves.

It's probably the tubes, but tell your tech to check the filter caps too.

If you don't like the sound of running a distortion pedal into the clean channel of your Marshall, try boosting its distortion channel. The mode 3 on your FZ-2 is a pretty powerful boost.

 

[serpiko]

@ Spaceboy
true, but in the Cabotron head there is a switch which allows to select 40w, 80w, or 150w. Normally I play on 40w, considering also that the output is 8 ohm while that cabinet takes 16 ohm do you still think it will not be suitable?

@ Godgrinder
The distortion coming from the Marshall is ok, I guess that with a proper cabinet will be great, but yes I can try to boost it with the Fuzz-2 in mode III. Anyway my plan is to keep the Marshall with the Laney cabinet in the rehearsal room until I build my rig at home. When I will be satisfied with the result I will bring the rig in the rehearsal room and I will keep the reliable Marshall hybrid head as a back up.

 

[serpiko]

would this one be any good for me?

http://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und- ... =105528939