Diezel opinions, help me make decision...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Juggernaut
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Juggernaut":uqunzgna said:
Ventura":uqunzgna said:
What the hell happened with you and the CCV...??!!?!?!?! :confused:

As for the Herbert and the VH4... Tough call man, but I'd say tightness is owned by the VH4.

Curve ball into this is the Hagen if you MUST go with a Diezel. Herbert is nu-metal territory, more or less the same menu and palette as the Uberschall TJ if we had to compare one brand to another; albeit the Herbert's got way more range - IMHO. VH4 is surgically tight...I have no idea what this bit about sag is, it's dry and tight, but loaded with overtones and a nice 3D sound. Hagen is the new kid on the block - and for my purposes, it slays. But that's not to say it'll be everyone's cup of tea.

Fortin and DAR are definite contenders.

But ya, still puzzled as to what the f*ck happened to the Cameron Honeymoon.

Peace,
Mo
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Damn man, ya, I saw you started this thread a bit ago and didn't even open it up thinking it couldn't possibly be the CCV. Well, I was wrong. Wow, sorry to read this man, but hey, amps are really personal - so it's not anyone's fault, just facts, right? So it goes.

FWIW, I picked up a 20thA almost 2 years ago now...I knew that amp was a 100% keeper the moment I plugged into it. It still makes me grow a rubbery one when I throw the standby to OFF :rock: :rock: :rock:

The VH4, I love this amp at 85% maximum love capacity :lol: :LOL: I struggled with it a touch... But the tone was too good to not forsake the vibe and groove just a bit. It's incredible, but this particular amp, I did indeed struggle a bit with it. It shows my weaknesses, and often doesn't translate my 'mood' of playing as easily, as, well, say the 20thA XTC. It's a machine. Like the Terminator. It just pulls like a freight train and blasts hard... And will mow me over in the process if I don't keep up :lol: :LOL:

Then came along the Hagen. It's got it all - greasiness, vibe, groove, biting gnawing gnashing brutality, a decay that's got a life of its own when you let the chords ring out, incredible percussive nature, and man, for me - again, all personal - it takes my mood and groove and communicates it perfectly. I am sure for all the lovers of this amp, there are an equal number of dissers. That's the nature of the field.

Good luck :thumbsup:
Mo
 
So all you Dar guys....................tell me about the owner and builder :)

What are the owner/builder's past experience in the amp world? :)

Tell me about his business practices........ :)

Any clips out there? :)

I am interested who here that said Dar knows Dar.................... :)
 
Motorpud":14xqb5lo said:
Rezamatix":14xqb5lo said:
Here I am thinking the VH4 is already super tight. Curious about that Dar amp though...
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I thought the same thing. The VH4 I played was for sure tighter than the Herbert. The Herbert had a flub to it which I thought was due to the overabundance of bass. The bass was also pretty hard to dial out.
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The frontloaded Diezel 4X12 with V30s is pretty much mandatory for keeping the Herbie's bass and lowend in check. Otherwise, it can and will get flubby and mush-out with rear-loaded cabs. It's just too much for them to handle.

As for which amp is "tighter per se"... I think both are plenty tight sounding with high gain... and depending on the power tubes and cab used, either is plenty tight for me. The Herbert does have way more bass and much more modern voicing. The VH4 is more in the classic vein, but more on the even balanced side of the bass-mid-treble voicing.

Les Zombie":14xqb5lo said:
the herb does indeed have alot of lows but i keep mine around 11:00 and the depth about 10:30 and they arent as overpowering, the boost also helps tighten it up. the herb has some sag but not as much as say a uberschall or recto, its tighter than either of those amps.
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Yup. I never ran the depth on my Herbert above 11:00. I always would keep the presence up around 3:00 to help keep everything tight and cutting. And it is indeed tighter and more articulate than any Uber or Recto regardless of version.

To the OP: I'd also throw the Fryette Ultra-Lead in to the running. It's the absolute tightest sounding, fastest playing high gain channel switcher out there. Also it's far more open sounding and not as compressed as the competition. Finally, it's built like a tank.
 
mightywarlock":2vl3b145 said:
Honestly, I have had both the Herbert, still have my VH4, and lots of other amps...

I am finding my new ENGL SE EL34to be just awesome for Tight Crunchy Thick and aggressive tone.
It is very tight...and fills in the frequencies that you might think are missing in the VH4...
the ENGL tone is much fuller, and has more bass, but is still quite aggressive.
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I agree with most of that sentiment. The only thing with the SE is all the features. Most of which I never used and were simply over-kill. All the little voicing knobs, were really un-needed as most guys are going to use this as a high-gain monster... so why the need for all the little lo/high gain push buttons? Just use the gain knobs and skip the buttons. Also the "mega-low punch" button was insane. Just way too over the top. It added way too much bass, and makes the sound of the amp un-useable. The "depth" button is cool and adds ample low-end, but I'd rather the SE have a depth knob, like most other high-gain channel switchers, so you can dial the specific amount of power amp low end you like. I never even used that special clean channel on the back of the amp? If Engl came out with a stripped down, more streamlined SE model, for like $2700, they would sell a bunch. And before anyone mentions the Invader, it sounds nothing like the SE... and not in a good way.
 
I don't know what amps you have been through, but I do know you are a big fan of Randall cabs. Since you have been through a lot of amps what about giving the Randall MTS line a try with some modified modules? The amps are selling for some sick prices since Randall discontinued the line. There are a lot of rumors that Egnater is going to be taking them over, and having them produced with the Egnater name in china, so modules will still be available. The 100 watt heads are going for under $500 used, and as low as $600 new. I just got (out for delivery today) an RM50 head with the Judge, and mr. scary Lynch signature mods for $700 shipped all new full warranty!!!!

You can put any tube in the power section 6L6, EL34, KT77, KT88, some 6V6s can handle the voltage. Plus you can run integrated quads, so two EL34s, two KT88s etc. Plus Salvation mods just released a Cameron mod. He has a Diezel mod, and I am getting a custom version of it to cover all three modes of the Einstein channel 1. I have a modified XTC by Sacred Groove that I prefered to my Mak4 makoplex channel. The best part of the MTS series is if you don't like a module you can flip it for what you pay within $20. All you are out is the cost of shipping. Plus with the 100 watt head you can have for instance a Cameron, Diezel, and Mesa Lonestar clean for example. I am going to have Einstein channel 1 (clean, crunch, mega), and XTC (red, and blue channel with or without structure). If you were to buy three Salvation mods new they are about $500, and a new RM100 head funky monkey music has them for $600 new in their ebay store. That is a pretty killer rig for $2100. If you buy used modules you can take $300 off of that price, but the Diezel, and Cameron mods will be hard to find used.

I have been through a few modules. I just got into the MTS amps late December. I bought a used combo, and now I will have a new head with a couple of modules. All the onew I have tried so far have been great it is just a matter of finding the modules that work the best for you. I tried the XTC because I found a good deal on it, and it just blows my mind how great it sounds!!!! It has got rid of a lot of my gas.

Also I would second the Peters sugestions. Those are great amps as well.
 
Mike

I think if you have the choice between the two get the VH4, I had the herbert for a few years and could just not get it to work for me, I loved it on it's own, but could not dial out this flub even though it appeard to have a tight responce, I just couldn't dial it out, tube change after tube change, it just wasn't for me, and we have very similar taste in music and amp tone.

However I would say forget all that and get a DAR FBM-100. when I get some dough I'm adding one to my stable!

Cheers
 
You guys that think a Herbert isn't tight are nuts. Dump the Mesa recto cab, thats half the problem. :doh: Front load cabs are the only way to go with the Herbert.

Mine with all KT88's and a boost, is tighter than my VHT CLX....... it's an incredible amp. Personally, when I played a VH4, I was not impressed.
 
glpg80":3uk26bcj said:
Evergrey uses Herberts if you want an example of their tone

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this is completely wrong. Evergrey have never ever used herberts on their recordings so, the video with touch of blessing is soooooo far away from truth.
What they would usually end up with in the studio was either the good old 5150 or Engl (I've seen them with savage and blackmore).. they would run the savage via the power amp of the 5150 when tracking guitars for instance..

Live on stage they've always been using 5150 (later 6505).. the new guitar player uses a marshall JVM I believe. Henrik Danhage used to run a bogner uberschall on his last tours with evergrey, but only used it for a couple of solos, later he left the band. I was a huge Danhage freak years back, I've had the opportunity to ask the guys quite many times on how they do things. I've even had a caparison danhage model :lol: :LOL:
 
RJF":3l32iez8 said:
You guys that think a Herbert isn't tight are nuts. Dump the Mesa recto cab, thats half the problem. :doh: Front load cabs are the only way to go with the Herbert.

Mine with all KT88's and a boost, is tighter than my VHT CLX....... it's an incredible amp. Personally, when I played a VH4, I was not impressed.
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Herbert doesn't come stock with 88's tho does it?
 
RJF":38mub4k1 said:
You guys that think a Herbert isn't tight are nuts. Dump the Mesa recto cab, thats half the problem. :doh: Front load cabs are the only way to go with the Herbert.

Mine with all KT88's and a boost, is tighter than my VHT CLX....... it's an incredible amp. Personally, when I played a VH4, I was not impressed.
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I've had an Einstein and Herbert.
If I was to do it all over again, I would probably have gotten the 50 watt Einstein and kept it instead.
Build quality on both amps was stellar!

that being said, I'm much happier with my current setup than what I had in the Diezels for several reasons.
 
Well Juggs, after all these different answers I am sure you are more fucked than before asking :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL:
 
I know this isn't particularly your style, but still a great clip of the VH4

 
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