ESP E-II rant.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Knockout
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jlb32":30nsngb0 said:
Most will not spend $4K-$6K+ for a Custom ESP which is all that ESP now offers branded ESP.
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That's quite an astonishing price tag considering, especially if you're American, how many incredible custom guitars are built in the states. I'd be interested to see how many orders ESP have on their books for custom guitars. Are they custom option builds or whacky custom design guitars?
 
Anytime a major brand waters down its guitar lines, it spells nothing but trouble. New prices are ridiculous. Buy ESP Kiso when you can though.
 
JimmyBlind":prp9fc10 said:
jlb32":prp9fc10 said:
Most will not spend $4K-$6K+ for a Custom ESP which is all that ESP now offers branded ESP.
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That's quite an astonishing price tag considering, especially if you're American, how many incredible custom guitars are built in the states. I'd be interested to see how many orders ESP have on their books for custom guitars. Are they custom option builds or whacky custom design guitars?
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No, not customs, it's ~$4k for their production USA series, ~$5k for their production MIJ Original Series.
 
Their wait list for customs is around 2 years so they're not hurting for business. If Suhr charges over 4k for a semi custom, and ken Lawrence charges 7k, not sure what the issue is....
 
Definitely don't like the E-II name but the one I had was great. No complaints construction wise.
 
xzyryabx":1c8rblgc said:
Their wait list for customs is around 2 years so they're not hurting for business. If Suhr charges over 4k for a semi custom, and ken Lawrence charges 7k, not sure what the issue is....
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We're not talking about one off ESP Customs people order built to their spec. Those are much more than $4K-$5K.

We are talking about the regular ESP Custom line (USA Series, Original Series and some Signature guitars). Those are the only models from ESP you can walk in a guitar shop and buy labeled ESP now. Everything else is Ltd. or E-II.
 
Anyone knows if they did anything different to their Custom Shop signatures? It seems like they just bump them up $2Gs, and that's it. The Hannys went from $4500 new to $7500, Trucksters from 4 to 6 grand. I mean they couldn't really modify them, because it was already signature guitar to the specs or original...at least that was an idea.
Are the used ESP custom sigs gonna jump in price also?
Who would wanna buy new Truckster for $5000 when old ones are still for $1600?
 
Are they charging as much as the ESP Standard line for these E-II's? I remember the Standard line prices were getting pretty inflated too.

Either way, if they're asking about 1-1.2K like they were asking for the LTD Elite line, I don't think it's that big of a deal…?
 
Rex Rocker":33funhju said:
Are they charging as much as the ESP Standard line for these E-II's? I remember the Standard line prices were getting pretty inflated too.

Either way, if they're asking about 1-1.2K like they were asking for the LTD Elite line, I don't think it's that big of a deal…?
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They do charge like standards. I guess the word on the street is that $1200 used is a great deal. Normally they up to $2g
 
ESP's roots are custom guitars for the Japanese market. Their Original Series is the closest thing to regular "production" you get, but they are still made in their custom shops.

Everything else (E-II, LTD, standard series) was made for overseas/export markets.

I can totally understand the company wanting to differentiate the "elite" name of ESP from the export mass produced stuff, as the export stuff is just nothing at all like what ESP is in it's native Japan.

To me the issue or mistake isn't that they changed the name NOW, it's that they never differentiated to begin with aside from LTD. IMO they should have just brought Edwards and GrassRoots to the export market rather than create new product/brand names. And the US custom shops that sprung up in the 80's/90's furthered confused things...And now the "new" US customs do as well...Because they still aren't "real" ESP's in the original "Japanese ESP" sense.

While the Standard Series line and EII and LTD Elite are fine guitars in their own right, they belong no where near the same "name" plate as the true ESP shop made products. I still believe, and it's been alluded to, that the standards and E-II's and LTD Elites are just rebranded Edwards models and/or made in the same factories as Edwards. I believe those product lines are just farmed out to factory production facilities just like LTD's are, only instead of Korea/China/Vietnam/Indonesia (LTD), it's just factories in Japan (EII/LTD Elite/Standard Series).

We (incorrectly) view ESP through US market glasses. We've always been wrong.
 
nwright":13jgqs72 said:
ESP's roots are custom guitars for the Japanese market. Their Original Series is the closest thing to regular "production" you get, but they are still made in their custom shops.

Everything else (E-II, LTD, standard series) was made for overseas/export markets.

I can totally understand the company wanting to differentiate the "elite" name of ESP from the export mass produced stuff, as the export stuff is just nothing at all like what ESP is in it's native Japan.

To me the issue or mistake isn't that they changed the name NOW, it's that they never differentiated to begin with aside from LTD. IMO they should have just brought Edwards and GrassRoots to the export market rather than create new product/brand names. And the US custom shops that sprung up in the 80's/90's furthered confused things...And now the "new" US customs do as well...Because they still aren't "real" ESP's in the original "Japanese ESP" sense.

While the Standard Series line and EII and LTD Elite are fine guitars in their own right, they belong no where near the same "name" plate as the true ESP shop made products. I still believe, and it's been alluded to, that the standards and E-II's and LTD Elites are just rebranded Edwards models and/or made in the same factories as Edwards. I believe those product lines are just farmed out to factory production facilities just like LTD's are, only instead of Korea/China/Vietnam/Indonesia (LTD), it's just factories in Japan (EII/LTD Elite/Standard Series).

We (incorrectly) view ESP through US market glasses. We've always been wrong.
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The ESP Standard Series guitars are no longer made. They were the Japan production models compared to the Custom Shop Models. Similar to Gibson USA or Fender USA versus Gibson and Fender Custom Shop guitars. Edwards are not made in Japan. They just do some final assembly in Japan. Ltd. of course is made overseas in China, Indonesia, Korea.

The Ltd Elites were the mid step guitars between Ltd. and ESP Standards. Most feel the new E-II models stepped in the Ltd Elite place when they were discontinued. The ESP Standards were taken out for cost savings IMO. ESP states the E-II line is the same as the Standard Series line was but most feel that is not true. Most seem to feel the E-II line is a step down from the what the ESP Standards were.

The ESP Standards also put a big sales hurt on the ESP Custom Shop line overseas. They were very comparable. I own both ESP Standard and ESP Custom Shop guitars and the Standards are not far off from the Custom Shop versions at all.

IMO ESP just felt the Standard line was competing to much with their much higher priced Custom Shop line overseas so they got rid of the Standards all together. They then made Ltd. Elite line into the new E-II line hoping this would cut costs but also convince more overseas buyers to pay the higher Custom Shop prices for the ESP name.

The problem is the market is not there. Without the ESP Standards most wanting the ESP brand will not pay those much higher prices for a ESP Custom Shop like they would for a PRS, Gibson, Fender, etc... A lot wanting the ESP brand also will not want to settle for a E-II or Ltd. Without the ESP Standard Series sales will drop majorly IMO.
 
"ESP states the E-II line is the same as the Standard Series line was but most feel that is not true. Most seem to feel the E-II line is a step down from the what the ESP Standards were. "

At least 3 of those LTD Elite models "magically" became E-II's when the LTD Elite line was discontinued, so I think that is correct.
 
I got excited when I saw the new top of the line, molten red lava Gary Holt sig. ESP debut at NAMM 2015. Sickest looking guitar I've ever seen. When they mentioned the price ($5500), I immediately got flaccid.

B6YHvNaCMAAF0PU.jpg:large
 
The whole change to E-II was because ESP found Japanese companies importing ESP Standard Series guitars and selling them. ESP wants the only guitars in Japan with the ESP on them to be the custom shop guitars. So they changed the name to stop the import practice. They're not really concerned about the reputation outside the country. E-II guitars will sell eventually, and in North America they mostly sell LTD anyway.
 
^ that's interesting and now I can somewhat understand the name change, though the ESP USA stuff wouldn't fit that narrative?
 
ESP USA is a "custom" level shop. I assume it was their "compromise" to the North American market. They're still selling at ESP Japan prices.

"Reputation" might not have been the correct word, but they want the ESP brand (especially in Japan) to be their highest quality guitars. They weren't as concerned with that outside of Japan, which is why the rest of the world received "mass produced" guitars with the ESP logo. Then they changed it to ESP Standard Series. As they saw their control over the ESP Brand slipping while the SS guitars were coming back into Japan, they stopped it completely.

For me, I'll keep buying old Standard Series guitars until I can't get them on ebay anymore. The E-II name (at this point) holds no meaning to me. In my world, the ESP brand is worth less than $2k to me (usually much less). I wouldn't pay CS prices for an ESP. In the US (or at least my world) they don't carry the same "lifestyle" brand as Gibson, and if I had $5k to spend on a guitar, I know I'd get a much larger portion of that $5k back if I bought and eventually sold that Gibson than if I bought an ESP.

And I love my ESP guitars. Some are CS quality, most are SS. I've owned and played them for years.
 
What's up with DV8s, nowadays? They say Custom Shop on them but people treat them like an LTD deluxe, when it comes to resale. Why are they so low on the totem pole?
Pushead, do you know what's up?
 
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