Jakem
Well-known member
Thanks for the additional comments! Gotta love the RT!
Rackman
Well-known member
And that analog block is fairly limited/budget oriented compared to the Eventides.
All H8000 and later eventides loopback null to at least the -45dB level. The H9000 is confirmed to have literally the best loopback null of any audio interface known to man - better than numerous super-expensive mastering oriented interfaces.
Now, that's slightly different test that what we're describing here but it's fundamentally the same idea - a pass through both analog blocks and A-D/D-A converters and how well that preserves the signal. I believe other than the (minimal) latency the Eventide digital pass-through is inaudible in practical use. It's MUCH more likely your amp loop (or whatever is sending and receiving signals from the Eventide) is more colored than that the Eventide is.
Solarflares
Active member
Include one bypassing the unit completely and I’ll take that bet.I bet if I give you 8 clips through the Eclipse, all played through either an empty patch or the hardwire bypass, you can't tell me which are which
Rackman
Well-known member
Up to 7 of the 8 will use the hardwire bypass (which bypasses the unit completely). You have to tell me which is which. There's guaranteed to be one bypassed and one non-bypassed.
How much do you want to bet?
Solarflares
Active member
You would need the Rane SM26-S and a simple 4-way midi-switcher to do it correctly, with a Lehle P-split first.
You will be limited to 0 or 100%, or both, unless you buy a programmable midi-mixer.
Solarflares
Active member
One sample with the unit removed from the system entirely. Send me 8 24-bit/96Khz Wav files, with white noise at -10dB.
OP is not using a loop. Try and keep up, instead of spouting Eventide fanboy rubbish.
Yes, we all know you have a few racks.
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Rackman
Well-known member
I can do one with a cable in the loop instead of the hardwire bypass, if you think that will somehow help you (it won't).
Still no good - delay needs say a 15% wet mix. This whole mixer thing isn't really a feasible solution unless you want to buy a very expensive midi-controlled mixer that likely also has a rather obnoxious form factor.
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Solarflares
Active member
I’ve lost interest.
Just plug it in and use it.
If it performs well, then fine.
If it doesn’t, then sell it.
Just plug it in and use it.
If it performs well, then fine.
If it doesn’t, then sell it.
Rackman
Well-known member
You're confused, so I will be very explicit what the bet is. I'm offering 8 samples of a guitar rig being played in the room at a variety of gain levels. Bogner 104BV with only an Eventide Eclipse in the loop. A single u87 sitting in the room at head height at reasonable playing distance recorded raw with a RME Fireface UFX III and the built-in pres. Volume normalized between all clips, otherwise zero processing of any kind - what came off the RME's A-Ds is what you get. They'll be 96K 24bit PCM files.
At least one will have the loop of the amp bridged with a cable since you requested that. At least one will have an eventide eclipse with the null patch running (so full A-D, D-A and analog blocks but no processing). The other 6 could be relay bypass or null program. Your job is to tell me whether each one is hard-bypass (you have no hope of telling the relay from the cable, I won't ask) or null program. If you get all 8 correct, you win and I pay. If you can't tell which is which, you pay me.
Before I send them to you I will tell a 3rd party what each clip is.
I 100% expect you to twist, turn, and back out right about now. Do I understand your psychology correctly?
Solarflares
Active member
No pre’s, no normalisation, no mic’s, no speakers, no loops.
I would want one -10dB clip of white noise straight to your RME, captured in 24-bit at 96Khz in Wav format.
Then one clip of the unit in series - relay bypassed.
Then one clip of the null patch.
Always best to not try and guess what someone is thinking. They might be something you could never imagine.
Rackman
Well-known member
Oh I know what you're thinking - that there is zero chance you could tell from sound in the room what you're hearing. But you'd like to save face, so now you're going to confuse the matter as much as you can. White noise! No pres! No mics! Record psychically.
I'm not guessing what you're doing. I know what you're doing, because I've seen clown behavior like yours many, many times in the past
I'm not guessing what you're doing. I know what you're doing, because I've seen clown behavior like yours many, many times in the past
Solarflares
Active member
No confusion. Just 3 accurate captures that I can frequency analyse.Oh I know what you're thinking - that there is zero chance you could tell from sound in the room what you're hearing. But you'd like to save face, so now you're going to confuse the matter as much as you can. White noise! No pres! No mics! Record psychically.
I'm not guessing what you're doing. I know what you're doing, because I've seen clown behavior like yours many, many times in the past
If you can’t do that then fair enough. No need for abuse.
Rackman
Well-known member
This isn't abuse. This is me reminding you that no one can tell the difference between a set of AD/DA converters & analog blocks that null to -45dB and a wire by listening in a room. And that 'nobody' includes you. It is effectively inaudible. Which is why the idea that you need to somehow preserve your dry signal with a line mixer is laughable.
Solarflares
Active member
I know full well what AKM 4393’s sound like.
I’ve been at this a long time. And with better gear.
I’ve been at this a long time. And with better gear.
Rackman
Well-known member
If the sound was audible, you'd be happy to take my bet and make money.
But as I said I understand the psychology of what you're doing very well, and I know you will come up with any excuse imaginable to avoid being humiliated when you can't tell
But as I said I understand the psychology of what you're doing very well, and I know you will come up with any excuse imaginable to avoid being humiliated when you can't tell
rsm
Well-known member
rackwars 2026
Solarflares
Active member
Think what you like.
The guy has already bought it.
So it’s not as if you can do any harm.
After all, you’re telling him to save his money.
He’ll have to try it, and if he’s happy, then good.
I would do it my way here, and if I was building his rack, then I would preserve analogue path at all costs - with options to go 100% Eclipse. He would drop $1500 for that convenience.
I’m not backing out of anything, or making complications.
But I work with studio monitors here, and have comprehensive analysis options. That’s how I work.
Anyway, thanks for lauding the Eclipse analogue performance. It might be helpful to others.
That info would have helped me when I was thinking about one for live work.
The guy has already bought it.
So it’s not as if you can do any harm.
After all, you’re telling him to save his money.
He’ll have to try it, and if he’s happy, then good.
I would do it my way here, and if I was building his rack, then I would preserve analogue path at all costs - with options to go 100% Eclipse. He would drop $1500 for that convenience.
I’m not backing out of anything, or making complications.
But I work with studio monitors here, and have comprehensive analysis options. That’s how I work.
Anyway, thanks for lauding the Eclipse analogue performance. It might be helpful to others.
That info would have helped me when I was thinking about one for live work.
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