Favorite VH brown sound in a pedal solutions?

harddriver said:
I though you swore by the Carl Martin plexi pedal?

I don't think you can get all those dynamics you listed in a pedal platform. That's asking a pedal to do alot ahead of the an amplifier preamp and power section. I think alot of people have tried to do this very thing and seems they have fallen short. You may just have to settle for just ok.

The Ossie Ahsen Mototeddy preamp pedals do sound pretty cool.

As RSM mentioned for EVH plexi tone in a bottle probably would be the Kemper but alas that it is digital and you're still looking for a analog pedal to package Phase inverter Power amp clipping in the preamp of a pedal.

It does sound like George Metropolus is incorporate some type of emulation circuits within his new Metroplex II circuits. I doubt he would evolve that innovation into a pedal taking away his sale of his amps.
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I couldn't agree more ....
I've breadboarded or have built over 60 drives / boosts / Distortions .... usually the best ones use JFETs .... especially the J201's they are probably the best " Tube emulating " transistors ....
the Wampler Pinnacle would probably be my choice .... I've built and modded a handful of them over the last few years .... they use J201's .... and will get you as close as you're going to get IMO
 
I'm fairly certain David Phillips(LA sound and design) uses an XTS atomic overdrive to get the tones at a low volume with his EVH rigs. Here ya go...
 
Also, what we're hearing on the VH1 isn't what's coming out of EVH's amp, it's the fully processed, mixed, mastered result.



Euge is discussing and demonstrating post-EQ, and putting an EQ pedal in the effect loop to get the sound:

 
i’ve had some combinations in the past that sounded close enough for rock and roll.

dynacomp->tonebone classic->peacemaker with 2 tubes pulled/thd hotplate->bogner uberkab =

https://on.soundcloud.com/7KEsAsCvaKH8eRiv7

nux plexi crunch pedal->peacemaker/rivera rock crusher-> mahalo 4x12 || line out to dd-2 delay into randall RT/2-50 power amp and v30 1x12 (wet-dry) =




an encouraging update:
i fiddled around with a cmatmods brownie pedal into my egnater ie4 channel 3 this evening and was getting pretty close to what i’m after.

that chompy saggy trumpety car horns in three part harmony triad chord thing, the reedy bronchial superlead dirty single notes and double stops snarl down low,
and clear liquid singing single notes, staying dynamic on the upper frets without the boxy fizz and compression.

btw i went to my friend’s small music store to buy some pedal power cables, and jack johnson was in there trying out looper delay pedals.

fiender!
 
rsm said:
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my response to that is if it’s so easy that any common stock marshall can achieve it,
why don’t more people chasing vh tone have it nailed? it’s definitely not just because of the “tone is in the hands” thing, which i agree to in part. i’ve played a 12000 series super lead very close to eddie’s serial number. not even close. and most 70’s era marshall tones growing up in that era sounded like harsh dry crap.

in the 80s/90s every brand under the sun claimed to capture vh tone as a marketing ploy, but the closest thing to early vh tone i heard out of an amp was the first time experiencing Victor’s mojave peacemaker rig at the plexi palace. i’ve never been more stunned by a first impression of hearing an amp in my life. perfection.



but if the average shmuck like me stabbed my guitar into that amp cold turkey, after minute one i’d be bitterly disappointed. 2 of my friends bought and sold peacemakers because it didn’t have enough gain fir them. it’s a formula to get to the finish line. attenuate. PAFs. gh30s in a 4x12. the right delay. verb. and for me i had to hit the front end with the right something.

after that amp it was zach’s “brad era” cameron atomica serial #1 proto that came close.



now that amp has enough gain to be way more plug and play friendly for the average person. so the goal becomes reducing the preamp gain and cranking up the power section to balance it out, hide the distortion fizzies while preserving sustain and create more clarity and string to string definition.

i noticed when i played zach’s guitars with hotter pickups it was easier but the tone leaned towards modern metal. with my low output holmes 450 hummer loaded tyler, to my ears it was closer to vh and still super easy/slinky on the single notes.

honorable vh brown sound tone mention is the friedman steve stevens V1. no boost and cranked it starts getting plexi brown.

i haven’t played the new metro but it sounds amazing too.
 
rsm said:
Also, what we're hearing on the VH1 isn't what's coming out of EVH's amp, it's the fully processed, mixed, mastered result.
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I agree about the overall final polished sound being on VH1 is somewhat attributable to the Pultec EQ and other preamps and such as Jim Gaustad points out but that does not explain why Ed was getting almost identical album tones on the 78 tour without the benefit of the studio EQ sculpting. IMHO I believe the Pasadena Civic was the most album like between the two shows and it was LIVE.

I present exhibit A, Pasadena Civic October 15, 1977


I present exhibit B, Selland Arena show September 22, 1978, he was not even using 12301 at this show and the tone is stellar.
 
mentoneman said:
my response to that is if it’s so easy that any common stock marshall can achieve it,
why don’t more people chasing vh tone have it nailed? it’s definitely not just because of the “tone is in the hands” thing, which i agree to in part. i’ve played a 12000 series super lead very close to eddie’s serial number. not even close. and most 70’s era marshall tones growing up in that era sounded like harsh dry crap.

in the 80s/90s every brand under the sun claimed to capture vh tone as a marketing ploy, but the closest thing to early vh tone i heard out of an amp was the first time experiencing Victor’s mojave peacemaker rig at the plexi palace. i’ve never been more stunned by a first impression of hearing an amp in my life. perfection.



but if the average shmuck like me stabbed my guitar into that amp cold turkey, after minute one i’d be bitterly disappointed. 2 of my friends bought and sold peacemakers because it didn’t have enough gain fir them. it’s a formula to get to the finish line. attenuate. PAFs. gh30s in a 4x12. the right delay. verb. and for me i had to hit the front end with the right something.

after that amp it was zach’s “brad era” cameron atomica serial #1 proto that came close.



now that amp has enough gain to be way more plug and play friendly for the average person. so the goal becomes reducing the preamp gain and cranking up the power section to balance it out, hide the distortion fizzies while preserving sustain and create more clarity and string to string definition.

i noticed when i played zach’s guitars with hotter pickups it was easier but the tone leaned towards modern metal. with my low output holmes 450 hummer loaded tyler, to my ears it was closer to vh and still super easy/slinky on the single notes.

honorable vh brown sound tone mention is the friedman steve stevens V1. no boost and cranked it starts getting plexi brown.

i haven’t played the new metro but it sounds amazing too.
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Yes and no about the stock Marshall achieving the brown sound....The Selland arena 1978 show (Exhibit B) is completely without Ed's 12301 and the wooden headbox Super Bass because they were still missing from the airlines losing them coming back from Japan. You can clearly see newer Marshall heads on the left and the Musicman HD130's and HD65's on the right. I own an HD130 and Ed was not getting his main tone from the HD130's or 65's, he was reamping with them but that is another topic all together. I do feel my real EP3 echoplex sounded better and more correct but I sold it when it started needing more maintenance then I transitioned to the EP3 pedals which are about 90-95% there and other echo delays.

I know this will hurt some feelings but I don't really like the tone or attack of George Metropolous's 12380 amp. Maybe it's because he is still running all the original filter caps still in the amp which he admits. Hopefully I can play a Metroplex MKII one day and expereience it in person as George know's plexi's.

As for your comment about no boosts and getting VH1 album tone. The echoplex preamps and the MXR 6band EQ are boosts... but the EQ levels we see in the tour pics probably are to drive long cable lengths only DB wise and not what he would use in the studio, and I believe the MXR EQ was not always on, it was used on a looper pedal since it did not have a footswitch. The echoplex preamps are extremely important to the VH1 tone....period, when you A/B any VH1 with and then without the EP3 preamp/echoplex. I also believe Ed did not dime the volumes on the amp. If you run variaced cranked marshall on 7 with the 5000pf cap and then run it on 10, you will hear and feel difference and you don't get much more gain on 10.

What all these in room studio mics and other recent studio clips has really solidified with me is that Ed was always working with just enough gain to get those easy pinched harmonics but not so much gain that the crunch of the amp/guitar/pickup is subdued into a compressed bloated mess.
 
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To address my yes no answer about a stock Marshall achieving the brown sound I submit this below. You will have to be the judge about what you hear or don't hear.

This amp is a stock two gain stage Marshall SL configuration with a PPIMV master only but it does have certain Ed specs in it including the 50K midpot and V1B is running an 820ohm/.68uf(philips chicklet) first gain stage cathode value which gives it a tad more gain than 2.7K/.68uf but it's not the end all be all and the amp has the 820/.68uf Mustard on V2A, 47K NFB on the 8 ohm tap, amp set to 8 ohms into a 16 ohm cabinet.

Here is my 1969 Metro NOS SL build amp, with select components and Ed specs and NOS Iskras, modern transformers Metro(Heyboer) C1998 output transformer and a Classictone Power transformer, modern EH6CA7's, V1 Tung Sol, V2 Ruby HG5, V3 NOS Sylvania,Duncan 78 model in a Musikraft Northern ash Franky 500K pot, brass nut, fender temelo, Boss GE7 EQ and a Clinch EP3 EPPRE. Cabinet is a single Marshall cabinet (no Reamping) Celestion Heritage 12H30's, recorder with a Zoom recorder so there is no studio processing so you will have to compare to live recordings. This amp also was running a PEC dual pot Lar/Mar PPIMV and I used a hotplate set to -4 or -8 DB in one of the videos, that's it. I start off playing without the EQ and EP3 pedal then announce when I add them in and you can hear the differences on how the amp responds to them. Amp is not variaced in the videos it is running on wall voltage and the EH6CA7's biased at 50% of dissipation and the amp volume wise is loud TV tolderable in the room....it only gets better when you open up the Master volume more, it's a balancing act between the master and the attenuator. I admit the amp two videos are more in line with VHII tone and feel due the the A2 magnet 78 model, imagine using a short A5 7.6K-8.3K PAF or MM1400 and I feel you have VH1.

 
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rsm said:
Also, what we're hearing on the VH1 isn't what's coming out of EVH's amp, it's the fully processed, mixed, mastered result.

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Excellent room mic clip there RSM!

You hear that Ed was running the echoplex or echoplexes live in front of the 12301 in the studio in that room mic clip because the echo was coming out of the cabinet when he turned on the echoplex echo. That means the echoplex preamp is part and partial to the VH1 tone plus whenever he engaged the MXR 6band which tightens the lowend woof and give what ever mids boost Ed wanted to dial in for the studio takes.
 
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Arch Stanton said:
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I found that pic used for the video interesting...........................

Do you see the plexi standing on end next to the 4x12 cabinet then being reamped into the Fender drip edge bandmaster?

Baaaaaaabooom.................

PS.... that solo clip is from the October 15 1977 Pasadena Civic show.....
 
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