Heavy tonezzzzz and mixezzzz

Beyond Black said:
The Black Album is about as organic as meth cut with fentanyl. Literally every Metallica album before that was far more organic.
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Perhaps you're right that every Metallica album before it was more organic, but that still doesn't mean it's not an organic sounding album, pretty much any album made before 2000 is more organic than post 2000 when pro-tools started dominating every studio. Actually, i'd say there's more EQ'ing going on those guitars on Justice than the black album. Justice is kind of a cold sounding album, and Flemming had pages of notes on the EQ'ing going on. The drums sound like they were EQ'd to shit as well. Especially that kick.
 
VESmedic said:
Yea, it sounds great dicknose. But, I still think my Marshall would smoke the absolute fuck out of that with those riffs. Wish I had the DI for those. Hell I wish I had the whole track so I could shut your trap haha. You gotta understand (this is an extremely hard concept around here) different types of music require different types of tones.
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Perhaps you can find a way to steal those DI's?? You're good at that, right?
 
anomaly said:
Just because they used a ton of gear doesn't mean it's not an organic sounding album. I mean, just listen to it. Who cares how they achieved the final product. Does it really matter that there's multiple rhythm tracks? EQ's on the guitars and drums? It's all analog equipment, so who cares. That's like saying Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon ain't an organic sounding album cause they also used a lot of gear, that's besides the point. It's the tones.
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…… do you think those guitars sound “natural”? How about those DRUMS? Super natural? Come on man… you obviously have no clue what “organic” means. So since it’s analog, that means the drums aren’t super processed? There is absolutely NOTHING that is “natural and organic” about that record, literally nothing. It is far and away even to this day, metallicas most “produced” record. Those drums are eq’d to Christ, I mean let me know when you walk in to somewhere and hear drums that sound naturally like that… they don’t. The guitars? Not even close to “natural and organic” sounding. Have you heard the unmixed guitars and then listen to the record? How about the drums?

The only thing it DOESNT have a lot of, is compression, Atleast by todays standards. There ain’t much on the entire mix at all.


And to answer your question, of course it doesn’t matter how they got there, the record sounds amazing. But you are the one that stated that since something is “processed and not organic” it doesn’t sound good, that was your correlation here, not mine. My point is, adding 12 guitar tracks that come in on certain palm mutes and using multiple guitars ( rickenbacher baritone) underneath those guitars, sure as hell doesn’t make something “natural and organic”….how is using 12 guitars “natural”?
 
anomaly said:
Perhaps you're right that every Metallica album before it was more organic, but that still doesn't mean it's not an organic sounding album, pretty much any album made before 2000 is more organic than post 2000 when pro-tools started dominating every studio. Actually, i'd say there's more EQ'ing going on those guitars on Justice than the black album. Justice is kind of a cold sounding album, and Flemming had pages of notes on the EQ'ing going on. The drums sound like they were EQ'd to shit as well. Especially that kick.
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Pro tools has zero to do with it. I still fail to understand how you think the black album is natural and organic. There isn’t one instrument on that record that sounds “natural”…. And newsflash, that’s what metal is. If you are talking modern ( and I mean post 1990) production that is. How would the black album sound with a vibe and mix similar to dark side of the moon? How do you expect drums to cut through and be consistent In an absolute WALL of guitars? You can’t do it, it’s simply not plausible. Guitars cover the entire frequency range, and you are somehow trying to put an instrument in a mix with them that is terribly inconsistent by the nature of them ( drums) and expect it to be on the same level as a big wall of guitars and cut through essentially white noise? This is why people use samples, it’s just the way it is. Compression and samples. You want walls of guitars? Something’s gotta give if you want everything to be that big sounding. And natural is definitely not the way to that.
 
VESmedic said:
I agree! Nothing says “warm and punch” like boxy shitty midrange AM I RITE!?!?!??
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Boxy shitty midrange is more like 500 (maybe 450hz) - 800hz. Just my opinion. 350hz is the lower midrange, it's not exactly boxy... it's muddy if it's got too much of it going on. That's a frequency you'd hear on a AIC record. Do they have boxy tones?
 
anomaly said:
Boxy shitty midrange is more like 500 (maybe 450hz) - 800hz. Just my opinion. 350hz is the lower midrange, it's not exactly boxy... it's muddy if it's got too much of it going on. That's a frequency you'd hear on a AIC record. Do they have boxy tones?
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I realize you are here just to argue with me because you don’t like me, but you really sound like an idiot here. You can’t box things into abstract ideas like “well this record sounds amazing becsuse of 350hz!” That’s just now how this works. Literally everyone in here is telling you how backasswards your thinking is here. It’s the MIX, it’s not one certain thing that makes an AIC record sound great, or the black album sound great. It’s a culmination of things; mostly great arrangement, great takes, and great songs. This is all over your head, it’s more than obvious, but maybe if you didn’t come in here just to argue you could learn a thing or two :)
 
VESmedic said:
…… do you think those guitars sound “natural”? How about those DRUMS? Super natural? Come on man… you obviously have no clue what “organic” means. So since it’s analog, that means the drums aren’t super processed? There is absolutely NOTHING that is “natural and organic” about that record, literally nothing. It is far and away even to this day, metallicas most “produced” record. Those drums are eq’d to Christ, I mean let me know when you walk in to somewhere and hear drums that sound naturally like that… they don’t. The guitars? Not even close to “natural and organic” sounding. Have you heard the unmixed guitars and then listen to the record? How about the drums?

The only thing it DOESNT have a lot of, is compression, Atleast by todays standards. There ain’t much on the entire mix at all.


And to answer your question, of course it doesn’t matter how they got there, the record sounds amazing. But you are the one that stated that since something is “processed and not organic” it doesn’t sound good, that was your correlation here, not mine. My point is, adding 12 guitar tracks that come in on certain palm mutes and using multiple guitars ( rickenbacher baritone) underneath those guitars, sure as hell doesn’t make something “natural and organic”….how is using 12 guitars “natural”?
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12 guitars, I think you're exaggerating a bit and they actually sound like guitars should sound, not like a 8 string Fender telecaster with a wah pedal rocked all the way forward into a 5150 like your clip sounded like. The drums sound like drums on the black album, the way they should sound. Sure it was EQ'd, but when are drums not EQ'd?
 
The only records that approach “natural” are live albums, if they didn’t do too much sweetening and overdubs, so no, not Kiss Alive…lol (love that unnatural motherfucker of pure slab of rock and “Woa Yeah! How ya all feel”!
 
anomaly said:
12 guitars, I think you're exaggerating a bit and they actually sound like guitars should sound, not like a 8 string Fender telecaster with a wah pedal rocked all the way forward into a 5150 like your clip sounded like. The drums sound like drums on the black album, the way they should sound. Sure it was EQ'd, but when are drums not EQ'd?
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You are literally proving my Fucking point, how do you not see that? 8-12 guitars, who cares, whatever. It sounds great. Yes the drums sound like the way they should sound for that record. No one is saying they don’t. But there IS NOTHING NATURAL ABOUT THOSE TONES. How do you not get this? Let me know when you mic up your drums and they sound like that , or plug into your super overrated 2c+ and it sounds just like the black album? It doesn’t does it? Are drum kits mic’d up with no eq even CLOSE to those sounds? Fucking fuck no. Have you ever heard a drum kit mic’d up with nothing on it? THAT is natural. Subtle eq is NATURAL. Massive amounts of compression, samples, layers, insane amounts of eq ( listen to the Fucking toms man) is NOT “ NATURAL”….
 
VESmedic said:
I realize you are here just to argue with me because you don’t like me, but you really sound like an idiot here. You can’t box things into abstract ideas like “well this record sounds amazing becsuse of 350hz!” That’s just now how this works. Literally everyone in here is telling you how backasswards your thinking is here. It’s the MIX, it’s not one certain thing that makes an AIC record sound great, or the black album sound great. It’s a culmination of things; mostly great arrangement, great takes, and great songs. This is all over your head, it’s more than obvious, but maybe if you didn’t come in here just to argue you could learn a thing or two :)
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You're getting away from the point here.

I didn't say I knew more than you, but I do know that 350hz is not a frequency you simply throw away on EVERY guitar track. It's really up to the basic tone in question whether or not certain EQ'ing should be done to it. Every amp, cab, speaker is going to need different things done to it.
 
skoora said:
The only records that approach “natural” are live albums, if they didn’t do too much sweetening and overdubs, so no, not Kiss Alive…lol (love that unnatural motherfucker of pure slab of rock and “Woa Yeah! How ya all feel”!
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THANK YOU….. my god this is a stupid conversation..



BRB, listening to burzum and bathory records because they are “natural and organic” sounding, which means better!
 
anomaly said:
You're getting away from the point here.

I didn't say I knew more than you, but I do know that 350hz is not a frequency you simply throw away on EVERY guitar track. It's really up to the basic tone in question whether or not certain EQ'ing should be done to it. Every amp, cab, speaker is going to need different things done to it.
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I think you took what I said alittle too literally, that’s what i think. Does that EVERY TIME happen? No,’it doesn’t. For me and many others I know is it often one of the first moves I make on guitars? Absolutely, it’s a problem area more often than not. Also, dropping out 1db with a q of 1 ( I absolutely never do narrow cuts down there) to 1.5db, ain’t exactly scooping them out man. I 99 percent of the time don’t pull out more than that on guitars, especially if I recorded them. A wide Q of 1.0 or so, and 1-2db’s dropped out with a clean transparent eq sounds NATURAL, and like the track isn’t eq’d. Massive amounts of notching frequencies and small narrow cuts everywhere is incredibly unnatural sounding. Anyone that has eq’d guitars will tell you that exact same thing. I can even make a clip for you to show you exactly what I mean. Once you hear it, you won’t unhear it on records where too much notching was done ( modern djent shit for instance).
 
VESmedic said:
You are literally proving my Fucking point, how do you not see that? 8-12 guitars, who cares, whatever. It sounds great. Yes the drums sound like the way they should sound for that record. No one is saying they don’t. But there IS NOTHING NATURAL ABOUT THOSE TONES. How do you not get this? Let me know when you mic up your drums and they sound like that , or plug into your super overrated 2c+ and it sounds just like the black album? It doesn’t does it? Are drum kits mic’d up with no eq even CLOSE to those sounds? Fucking fuck no. Have you ever heard a drum kit mic’d up with nothing on it? THAT is natural. Subtle eq is NATURAL. Massive amounts of compression, samples, layers, insane amounts of eq ( listen to the Fucking toms man) is NOT “ NATURAL”….
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What I'm saying is it does not sound like a fucking drum machine, it sounds like a real kit in a really good sounding room, OK, even if it's enhanced to shit, the fundamental sound is still natural. It just sounds really good, warm, whatever word you wanna use. It doesn't sound cold, sterile, mechanical, even if it's enhanced... but you know, some records call for that cold mechanical drum machine sounding drum tone. Like fucking Fear Factory.
 
VESmedic said:
THANK YOU….. my god this is a stupid conversation..



BRB, listening to burzum and bathory records because they are “natural and organic” sounding, which means better!
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Yes it is cause I had something to say, and you gotta blow it up into all of this shit.
 
anomaly said:
Yes it is cause I had something to say, and you gotta blow it up into all of this shit.
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I’m not blowing up anything, it’s just none of us have any idea of what you are trying to say. Yes, the black album drums sound fantastic, I just don’t think even you know what you are trying to say at this point.
 
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Here’s the literal eq curve of the isolated guitar tone from the black album. Wouldn’t you know it, a LARGE spike at 160 hz, a known cab resonance frequency. Then sloped down the rest of the low mid range. A wide q at 1k dropping some of that off. Then a bump in the treble for presence.
 
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