Help me convince my bass player on right P.A system for gigging!!

[romanianreaper]

I'll try to make this concise and an easy read:
- 3-piece punk band
- So far have used house P.A. for gigs
- Mic our amps for P.A.
- Use house stage monitors

This is what we are considering:
- Our own P.A. for some gigs, electric and acoustic
- Might use in ears
- Don't want to carry a ton of stuff
- Don't want super heavy
- Talking about going direct to P.A. or micing to P.A.

My bass player and I were talking today and he mentioned the Evolve 90. I looked it up and was like $4000!!! Definitely more than I was thinking.

My bass player, understandably, wants a P.A. that can handle low frequency. Based on our discussions, we are talking about:
- 2 column type systems
- 2 powered speakers and two subs
- External Mixer

How simple, cheap and light can we go and have a reliable, loud system? Can we start with just one top and sub? Appreciate any info on this. I know it had a post about column speakers before. I'm trying to open this up to damnnear everything. I mentioned Yamaha and he also said RCF and QSC. I just don't want this to become some huge thing. We gig but we have fun and don't take ourselves too serious.

 

[brunocormack]

Tell your bass player that unless he is personally volunteering to lift every single 80-lb passive enclosure and power amp rack into the trunk at 2:00 AM after a 4-set gig, his vote is officially downgraded to an advisory role.

Modern active stuff (like a solid QSC K-series or Yamaha DXR setup) sounds twice as clear, has built-in DSP so you don't blow it up, and won't require a trip to the chiropractor.

 

[tjnx]

I mentioned this in your other thread but I found you have kind of limited options if you want good bass. Mainly there's no replacement for displacement.

The rcf column I linked is the cheapest way to get into a 12" sub but if you want him to be happy you're going to have to carry a 15" or 18". Some people use the j8s and then just bring an extra sub and run it on an aux.

The cheapest route I found to get a 15" was new / used dbr 10s and one of these:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...nd-milan-m15b-2200w-15-inch-powered-subwoofer
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AIRXDSub15--presonus-air-xd-sub-15-powered-subwoofer

Cheaper subs by budget brands that are larger perform worse than smaller more expensive ones. So a 15 / 18 mackie is outperformed by a 12" rcf.

If you add tops, a sub, stands, cables, and a possible mixer a lot of the budget options get expensive real quick. The best sounding, best value, and loudest (arguably) column that gets you a 15" sub is a single RCF evox 12.

The Behringer 12" subs are actually pretty good, so you could get a column system and 1 of those for more bass. Idk about the 15/18s but assuming they are good they are also heavy. If you play indoors and have the floor to couple with that will work to your benefit.

If you do subs / tops vs a column system YOU have to take care of crossover (the frequencies where the sub gets to on the high end and the top on the low end). Matching brand tops and subs is more expensive but the crossover dsp is pre-calculated so you don't get phasing. The ones above kind of let you adjust otherwise you have to use their built-in options. This also brings in getting a better mixer because you can set / adjust the crossover to the tops & sub(s) through an aux send if you have enough aux outs (xr18 again...!)

So for me I came to 2 conclusions. Mostly due to cost and portability

xr18 +

2 rcf J8s + 1 behringer sub if needed ( you can add that or a better sub later if you get the right mixer and you find the bass insufficient)
2 x DBR10 tops (although I would go with rcf 8s or 10s) + 1 presonus air 15" . The turbosound sounds good but I heard of reliability issues

You can start with a single top and a sub but your dispersion (left - right cone) is smaller with point source vs a column. It may be better to start with 2 tops or columns and have him use his bass amp to reinforce. Lower frequencies are more omnidirectional vs higher freqs that beam. If its for small venues think sound reinforcement rather than the whole pa taking over.

Again more videos that helped me. First one shows column vs sub + tops vs high quality 15" speaker:

 

[romanianreaper]

Tell your bass player that unless he is personally volunteering to lift every single 80-lb passive enclosure and power amp rack into the trunk at 2:00 AM after a 4-set gig, his vote is officially downgraded to an advisory role.

Modern active stuff (like a solid QSC K-series or Yamaha DXR setup) sounds twice as clear, has built-in DSP so you don't blow it up, and won't require a trip to the chiropractor.

Thanks! Yeah it is a heavy lift on the wallet and back, lol.

We are trying to find a way for him to not have to use a big bass amp but a lot of these P.A. systems don't go really low frequency wise.

 

[Fusionbear]

Thanks! Yeah it is a heavy lift on the wallet and back, lol.

We are trying to find a way for him to not have to use a big bass amp but a lot of these P.A. systems don't go really low frequency wise.

Another vote for the QSC K series!

 

[DanTravis62]

There's no replacement for displacement, especially with bass frequencies

It's just going to be a sliding scale for sound quality/amount of bass vs cost and heaviness

Cheap, light, sounds good, has lots of low end - pick two

 

[romanianreaper]

There's no replacement for displacement, especially with bass frequencies

It's just going to be a sliding scale for sound quality/amount of bass vs cost and heaviness

Cheap, light, sounds good, has lots of low end - pick two

It is crazy but none of us have used in-ear monitors or column speakers, etc. Even some of our gigs have been situations where it was hard to hear ourselves. Thr good part of that is that anything we do is going to improve our sound.

If we were a cover band or a good size band with a polished sound, I think we would want a bigger setup, etc. I have such a compact guitar rig and it would suck to have a 1x12 for myself and then need four speakers and all of this other crap for the P.A., lol.

 

[bhuard75]

I would just kick him out of the band and then you can use what PA you want.

 

[stephen sawall]

I have a older Mackie CR1604 and two SR 1522z. It's not loud enough sometimes.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Most of my opinions are going to be in the price range you are trying to avoid. I will say that even with a sub and especially with a shitty sub or subpar sub your bass player is probably going to need a decent rig. There's a reason it's called "Sound reinforcement". Put some of him in the PA but don't make it do the heavy lifting. Especially if you are going to mix from the stage or "Set it and forget it". You still are going to need the kick and maybe floors and keys to be in the sub to varying degrees.

Trying to put myself in your position I would go back to what I suggested in the other thread. Two powered tops you can afford that aren't crap. So Yamaha, QSC or equivalent. One 18" sub, Yamaha, QSC or equivalent and a 16 channel digital mixer. One with high and low pass filters on each channel and some halfway decent reverb and delay. I would likely go with Yamaha DSRs and a QSC K18. QSC has decent small format digital mixers too.

 

[Beyond Black]

I don’t understand why a fucking bass player gets a say in this.

 

[John4021]

Who cares what the Bass play thinks

 

[Beyond Black]

Who cares what the Bass play thinks

Exactly, tell him to push air and stfu!

 

[godgrinder]

Just make him bring his bass amp so you can get away with a cheaper/lighter PA.