Hetfield's MKIIC++ now in the Axe-Fx II

[jbcrazy]

I didn't think it sounded bad by any mean...but the isolated black album tones sound pretty fantastic imo and it's not quite there.

Yeah, but if an isolated track of multiple amps/tracks mixed together & professionally recorded/eq'd/mixed by Bob Rock & played by Hetfield, does not sound better than some guy recording a clip of a new amp model that he quickly dialed in to his taste & played through a cab IR of his choice.............then we got a headline!

In other words.....it's ridiculous to judge the merits of an amp model based on someones clip, just like it would be crazy to judge a particular tube amp based on a posted clip by someone.

Agreed for the most part, but the comment I was thinking of mostly was "Take any of the isolated guitar tracks from any holy grail recorded tube amp tone from a song & it sounds "totally processed dude""

On the Metallica tracks, you can hear the individual tracks come in and out in places and definitely the effect of the layers, but the whole thing is in another league start to finish. In terms of the average person's ability to get a pretty good sound in a cost effective way without having to involve a Bob Rock or whoever, it's a no-brainer that the Axe is a great way to go. It's also the way I would go if I were in a touring band. But I doubt Bob could sit down with the Axe and an engineer and re-create the tones to sound as good as the original if he were inclined to try. Maybe he could, but I doubt it.

Not to mention I am thinking the isolated guitar tracks were tripled tracked... and done with many different amps and blended. The isolated tracks could very well be... 6 different guitars and 6 different amps.

Honestly I think a great producer can make an amazing production with the AXE-FX 2. It is a matter of time... and talent.

 

[borninwinter]

I didn't think it sounded bad by any mean...but the isolated black album tones sound pretty fantastic imo and it's not quite there.

Yeah, but if an isolated track of multiple amps/tracks mixed together & professionally recorded/eq'd/mixed by Bob Rock & played by Hetfield, does not sound better than some guy recording a clip of a new amp model that he quickly dialed in to his taste & played through a cab IR of his choice.............then we got a headline!

In other words.....it's ridiculous to judge the merits of an amp model based on someones clip, just like it would be crazy to judge a particular tube amp based on a posted clip by someone.

Agreed for the most part, but the comment I was thinking of mostly was "Take any of the isolated guitar tracks from any holy grail recorded tube amp tone from a song & it sounds "totally processed dude""

On the Metallica tracks, you can hear the individual tracks come in and out in places and definitely the effect of the layers, but the whole thing is in another league start to finish. In terms of the average person's ability to get a pretty good sound in a cost effective way without having to involve a Bob Rock or whoever, it's a no-brainer that the Axe is a great way to go. It's also the way I would go if I were in a touring band. But I doubt Bob could sit down with the Axe and an engineer and re-create the tones to sound as good as the original if he were inclined to try. Maybe he could, but I doubt it.

Not to mention I am thinking the isolated guitar tracks were tripled tracked... and done with many different amps and blended. The isolated tracks could very well be... 6 different guitars and 6 different amps.

Honestly I think a great producer can make an amazing production with the AXE-FX 2. It is a matter of time... and talent.

Well, they already have right? I've heard albums done all Axe that I thought sounded great. And you can triple track with an Axe too? Like I said, I can hear the tracks going in and out and parts where there are more/less tracks. You can get a pretty good idea of the base tone if you're familiar with the effect of layering. So, I'm not trying to be anti-Axe at all, but if I compare the best examples of recorded tube tones I know of with the best examples of Axe tones, tube comes out on top. I'm sure with time the technology will get it closer. It's just not all the way there. In the mix, sounds like about 90% to me. Actually, the best Axe tones I've heard are where people are using it to create a different type of sound rather than just emulate a known sound. Would certainly like to hear some new tones/bands/songs that people will be interested in 25 years later.

 

[shredhead7]

I think that it sounds good in the mix. It does have a little grind/saw tooth type of sound around the edge that is different, but I think a good engineer/mix would fix that.

TBH I think that the AXE has come so far that in a recording studio, and for most of us do it yourselfers, it really is the best option (or Kemper).

 

[BYTOR]

Well, they already have right? I've heard albums done all Axe that I thought sounded great. And you can triple track with an Axe too? Like I said, I can hear the tracks going in and out and parts where there are more/less tracks. You can get a pretty good idea of the base tone if you're familiar with the effect of layering. So, I'm not trying to be anti-Axe at all, but if I compare the best examples of recorded tube tones I know of with the best examples of Axe tones, tube comes out on top. I'm sure with time the technology will get it closer. It's just not all the way there. In the mix, sounds like about 90% to me. Actually, the best Axe tones I've heard are where people are using it to create a different type of sound rather than just emulate a known sound. Would certainly like to hear some new tones/bands/songs that people will be interested in 25 years later.

Here is Pete who 4 years ago in this vid simply captured a cab IR of his cab & set the dials on a Plexi model in his AFX2 to the same settings on his Suhr SL68 & then tone matched them using the tone match block in the AFX2.

He then played both the SL68 & AFX2 thru the same cab IR. He said later in the video that he never made any adjustments that he could have in the AFX2 to try & get things identical, but even with that you can still hear that things sound close enough. Any difference you may hear could have been easily erased by adjusting a couple simple knobs in the AFX2(depth, sag)

We are now 4 years later than this vid, & the AFX2 is without question better than it was then. If you take a world class producer/engineer & have them obsess in studio on every detail like they do anyway, nobody can know the difference between a recorded tube amp or top class modeler. This stuff is already being done all over recordings but because of exclusive deals that some well known artists have with different tube amp brands, you'll never hear about it.

Pete a few years ago also matched his BE100 to the model in the AFX2, & Friedman himself chose the AFX2 model as the real deal in a clip comparison. If Dave can be fooled with his own amp anyone can.....

Relax tube amp purists, but as far as recording is concerned, singularity has been achieved! Actually the models can do so much more

 

[Racerxrated]

The one AxeII I tried sounded worse than the Line 6 flextone I bought my kid 7 years ago. That said, I'd love to hear a live Axe or Kemper rig done right, so I can honestly compare. So many options..power amps, 4x12 or frfr..I know they are awesome recording tools but I'd need a live tone that would have to come close to my 2 amps I have now.

 

[BYTOR]

I know they are awesome recording tools but I'd need a live tone that would have to come close to my 2 amps I have now.

This live tone by a forum member is 100% pure digital AFX 5153 amp model thru 2 digital EVH cab IRs from inside the AFX direct to FOH........does this come close enough to the live tone of the 2 amps you have now? If not then please let us hear a clip of your awesome live 100% organic tube tone dude

 

[ob1clyde]

Ohh... now that is tasty! ^^^

 

[shredi knight]

I shared this thread with Mikko (the guy who made the "Enter Sandman" YouTube clip in the original post) via private message over on the Fractal Audio forum, and he had this message he asked me to share with you:




First of all I want to thank everyone who listened to the clip. My intention was to get an Enter Sandman-ish tone, not to get a 100% identical tone. Match EQ would've gotten us there over 5 years ago. I have no post processing on my tracks. It's just an amp block and the IR which when compared to the real world is the same thing as doing nothing to a miked signal and that never happens, right?

I'm aware of the differences between my clip and the original as I have deeply analyzed the original stems. The original has an "intentional phase trick" that is almost impossible to re-create. It's most likely a room mic a bit further back and it's mixed in relatively loud. My Alloy IR's use phase tricks to some extent but not something as radical as what Metallica used for Enter Sandman. That's the main difference. Other than that I have more gain and more low end just because I liked it.

My playing in the beginning of that video is a mono track while the stem it was compared to is triple tracked so that should explain why they sound quite different. I suggest comparing the mix in the end to the real thing and you'll quickly realize that the difference is not that big. The main difference I hear is that my guitars are louder and that phase trick I was mentioning. It's this growly type character. You should notice it when comparing side by side.

I would like to quiet those guys saying that my clip sounds processed by showing another video where I compare my real life Mesa Mark IV and a real cabinet miked to my Axe-Fx with an ML IR shot from that exact same mic up:

It's 2016, you can start trusting modelers now.

PS. Sorry for looking like a 12 year old. I just turned 29 today but I can't help my face.

 

[steve_k]

very nice work.

 

[thiswaythatway]

The one AxeII I tried sounded worse than the Line 6 flextone I bought my kid 7 years ago. That said, I'd love to hear a live Axe or Kemper rig done right, so I can honestly compare. So many options..power amps, 4x12 or frfr..I know they are awesome recording tools but I'd need a live tone that would have to come close to my 2 amps I have now.

I had an Axe standard paired with a Mesa 2:90 on a 4x12. Sounded pretty damm good. You just have to shut off the cab sims. The Bogner XTC Blue channel patch I thought was really nice as was the Friedman BE. Of course you will get a bit of sameness to the tone going through a real Tube Power Amp and a 4x12 but those 2 amp sims to me worked really well. And remember, you won't need a pedal board. The effects are top notch sounding in it.

In a loud band setting tubes amps rule. But damm if they haven't closed the gap a lot.