G
Geo
Well-known member
Alcohol helps.
And stay away from your girlfriend.
And stay away from your girlfriend.
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
I had a teacher but he wasn't interested in teaching blues beyond the fuel-your-rock-guitar knowledge level.
Sometimes I think "talent" is the heart to keep going when others wouldn't. Maybe it's a combination of a love of music/guitar and being stubborn. I know some guys definitely have more innate ability out of the gate. Said teachers star student did but the business of music requires a different set of skills. He teaches but doesn't gig.
Yep. "cAn'T yOu tUrN iT dOwn?!?!" "pLay sUm sKiNnErD d00d" "kEn U pLaY tENNeSee wIsKey"
G
Geo
Well-known member
EVH didn't have a girlfriend until he was almost 30 years old.
DanTravis62
Moderator
That's certainly a big part of it. The desire or heart part.
Honestly I think another part of what people assume is "talent" is just making an effort to understand how different types of music move them personally, and then applying that to other people in playing an instrument. They call it "having an ear" as a musician, producer, etc, but honestly I think it's moreso having taste lol
The reason I think this is part of it is pretty simple - i've been in a TON of original bands. And I would much rather have a middling player who is super creative and understands what makes music great than a monster player who listens to Kiss and EVH and has no creativity.
There is 100% a correlation, at least in my experience. Those guys don't suck at music because they "don't have talent"... they "don't have talent" because they are fundamentally uncurious and unwilling to dig into what makes great art in the first place
This is why playing original music and playing in a cover band are vastly different things. I've done both. I'm not saying you have some moral superiority or something by doing originals, but it's a wildly more difficult, demanding thing to accomplish - and they are just different. Trying to sell someone a product they've already bought before, and trying to cold-sell are exponentially different difficulty levels.
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
It's like shooting. Or training a dog.
Shoot every day
Have your guitar in your hands at all times it is feasible.
Take your dog with you everywhere you go.
Shoot every day
Have your guitar in your hands at all times it is feasible.
Take your dog with you everywhere you go.
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
Yeah, the "Bandleader-Fu" as I call it is another talent. How to weed out problem people before they become a problem. Finding the right people is the thing I've struggled most with. Starting with, most guys either want to talk-party, or they want to show up with a guitar and then get paid. Then there are the guys who think they are pro but have horrible tempo, LOL. Very few guys enjoy doing the dirty work, have a good attitude, and have the musical smarts you mentioned.
Also done both, usually simultaneously. I like blues because like jazz it is expected you will play at least some standards while having some leeway to write originals. I can't imagine the headaches trying to find decent paying work playing 100% original rock music in the current state of things.
DanTravis62
Moderator
Yeah, my bandleader-fu is quite good at this point but it didn't start out that way. Mostly I had problems with people having "substance issues" though.
Playing originals (of any genre, honestly) is like playing dark souls blindfolded level difficulty, but it builds character and you can always tell the RTers who play original music have more developed gear tastes and opinions - they've actually used this stuff for it's actual intended purpose
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
Pretty sure we could write a book on it at this point. You have to have some tolerance for BS or you don't have a band. If you have too much tolerance, you don't have a band worth a shit. LOL
I've sometimes thought about doing a channel dedicated to some of this stuff just because there aren't really books or anything to teach someone coming in how to deal with it. It's all trial and error, which means making more mistakes than necessary. But I can imagine if I made a channel it would give every loser who ever got the boot an outlet to cry foul hahaha.
DanTravis62
Moderator
I totally know what you mean. It seems like everyone is forced to learn "bandleader fu" through trial and error, and by necessity it involves a ton of error over time.
I'm sure that's something that people would be interested in, the question is always how interested. I think being a youtube gear shill is living the dream way more than playing tunes on a stage for most kids
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
I have no idea at this point tbh. The "successful" (uh-huh) gear shill thing now is basically limited to a few people in the same way as being a "rockstar" was limited to a handful of people then. Even so, angry comments mean clicks haha. I'm sure to certain people having some real world experience how to navigate the business at it's most base level would be appreciated. But that leads to another problem...same problem it ever was...if you don't know what you are doing, how do you know the person you are listening to knows what they are doing? It's all taken on blind faith to some degree.
G
GuitarVacation
Active member
I didn’t figure this out by myself, I credit a couple of guitar teachers I’ve had over the years. I also didn’t take any lessons for the first 13ish years of playing.
I thought I was good (lol still not) and sought out lessons once I realized I wanted to progress beyond rehashing the same fast shred licks I’d beat to death since I was a teenager.
Practice, meaning well focused practice with intent, aimed at improving specific playing aspects that need attention, will have more of an effect than any piece of gear (given you have gear that’s at least serviceable for what you’re doing).
You’ve noticed something really important regarding feeling like more than 10 min is a waste of time. That is actually something you can used to your advantage.
My current teacher’s brother (both play multiple instruments at a high level) is big on a 20 min time period he read associated with some academic study. The conclusion of the study was that the average person gets the most benefit from practice during the first 20 min of practicing whatever skill.
Of course you can go past 20 min, and still make gains, but the longer you go the more diminishing your returns will be. The study would argue that two spaced out sessions of 20 min within a day would likely be much more productive (for most people) than one session on the same skill for an hour straight. I kind of think of it as the “kicking a dead horse” time limit.
The good news for guitar players, we have multiple skills that need to be practiced at a given time. So if you do have time to practice an hour or more (yeah right haha) change the focus every 20 min or so.
For example, I wake up an hour earlier than I have to so I can practice in the morning (best time for me). After I warm up and get the fingers going, I do 20 min of technique (could be alternate picking, legato, sweep picking, etc). This time is spent on whatever technique I’m focusing on during that time period.
Next 20 minutes is specifically rhythm and timing focused, and the last 20 min I force myself to play changes over jazz standards most of which I don’t like haha.
Get your practice in, whether that be several practice increments all in a block, or spread out, morning & evening or whatever works. Then whatever playing you do beyond that is for fun/enjoyment (also has great benefit).
20 min is average, but you may be on the shorter end, and 10 minutes is where you start diminishing returns.
Also, have to mention, the guys I know that play for a living, do not do this, as their practice, if they get any, is woodshedding whatever gets the next paycheck. But, they have massive time spent with a guitar in their hands for years, under live pressure. And all of them had some period when they were younger when they practiced like a MFer, and now they are focused on using the skill level they’re at to it’s highest dividends.
Sorry for the giant post. Just wanted to pass on what has allowed me to continue progress (in tiny increments haha) despite playing over 30 years and having stupid adulting ahead of guitar.
You noticed the secret yourself. There is a time limit to maximize benefit. I just pointed out that you can use it as an advantage rather than an obstacle.
Obligatory disclaimer: I still suck at guitar LOL
I thought I was good (lol still not) and sought out lessons once I realized I wanted to progress beyond rehashing the same fast shred licks I’d beat to death since I was a teenager.
Practice, meaning well focused practice with intent, aimed at improving specific playing aspects that need attention, will have more of an effect than any piece of gear (given you have gear that’s at least serviceable for what you’re doing).
You’ve noticed something really important regarding feeling like more than 10 min is a waste of time. That is actually something you can used to your advantage.
My current teacher’s brother (both play multiple instruments at a high level) is big on a 20 min time period he read associated with some academic study. The conclusion of the study was that the average person gets the most benefit from practice during the first 20 min of practicing whatever skill.
Of course you can go past 20 min, and still make gains, but the longer you go the more diminishing your returns will be. The study would argue that two spaced out sessions of 20 min within a day would likely be much more productive (for most people) than one session on the same skill for an hour straight. I kind of think of it as the “kicking a dead horse” time limit.
The good news for guitar players, we have multiple skills that need to be practiced at a given time. So if you do have time to practice an hour or more (yeah right haha) change the focus every 20 min or so.
For example, I wake up an hour earlier than I have to so I can practice in the morning (best time for me). After I warm up and get the fingers going, I do 20 min of technique (could be alternate picking, legato, sweep picking, etc). This time is spent on whatever technique I’m focusing on during that time period.
Next 20 minutes is specifically rhythm and timing focused, and the last 20 min I force myself to play changes over jazz standards most of which I don’t like haha.
Get your practice in, whether that be several practice increments all in a block, or spread out, morning & evening or whatever works. Then whatever playing you do beyond that is for fun/enjoyment (also has great benefit).
20 min is average, but you may be on the shorter end, and 10 minutes is where you start diminishing returns.
Also, have to mention, the guys I know that play for a living, do not do this, as their practice, if they get any, is woodshedding whatever gets the next paycheck. But, they have massive time spent with a guitar in their hands for years, under live pressure. And all of them had some period when they were younger when they practiced like a MFer, and now they are focused on using the skill level they’re at to it’s highest dividends.
Sorry for the giant post. Just wanted to pass on what has allowed me to continue progress (in tiny increments haha) despite playing over 30 years and having stupid adulting ahead of guitar.
You noticed the secret yourself. There is a time limit to maximize benefit. I just pointed out that you can use it as an advantage rather than an obstacle.
Obligatory disclaimer: I still suck at guitar LOL
70 Mach 1
Well-known member
Like me. Cant do shit. I suck at everything but complaining
Had a friend play Crazy Train almost note for note 3 days after it hit the radio.
45 yrs later i still cant complete the intro riff
S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑
Hack
Dogo argentina or cane corso?
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
Dogo Argentino, thanks for asking.
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
The last two were a brindle Staffordshire pit and a Golden retriever.
stephen sawall
SEMI ERECT MEMBER
I'm definitely not a great player. I do this because I enjoy it. I'm into writing songs way more than playing pyrotechnics. I intentionally keep things simple. So the band can feel out the space. Anyone who has played a few years can do what I do.
Omnipotent1
Well-known member
@Techdeth is an example of meeting at the crossroads but instead of selling out he challenged the devil to a showdown, & has been at war with him ever since. Quite frankly he made him his bitch. Dudes a special cat…
Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
I try I try
Toneboner
New member
Its like any physical act that requires skill. U have to slow down the mechanics of the action into components u can work on and try to improve -- trigger pull, recoil control, support grip -- just like vibrato, alternate picked string transitions, up/downstroke accents, synchronization etc etc.
Visualization, dry fire practice can help too,, just like listening to good players and imagining riffs/lines in your head (I guess thats called "audiation"? had to look it up).
Never thought of this before but gear buying (and forum-ing) is like everything else u do w ur gf/bf in a relationship that keeps things fun, interesting, stimulating. Whereas actually playing guitar is like fucking. Ur not fucking ALLLL the time. But if you're not fucking at all.....
Last edited:
