Hummmm with IR's

[Kapo_Polenton]

So i have been playing more with IR's because they are giving me better tonal results than micing up my 4x12 in the closet. Also repeatable at all hours when recording. Problem is...hum. I am going amp, Torpedo Cab M and XLR into computer. Have the noise gate on and powering the cab M off the same power source rack that feeds my studio gear from the SAME plug in the wall. My home studio has it's own breaker for power. (multiple plugs can create a loop ) So if I don't play, no hum. But unlike mic'ing, while playing i can hear that steady hum. Anyone experience this? Dirty power? Maybe i should try filtering out frequency for the hum 60hz in my daw ? Who has workarounds.

 

[chumbucket]

So i have been playing more with IR's because they are giving me better tonal results than micing up my 4x12 in the closet. Also repeatable at all hours when recording. Problem is...hum. I am going amp, Torpedo Cab M and XLR into computer. Have the noise gate on and powering the cab M off the same power source rack that feeds my studio gear from the SAME plug in the wall. My home studio has it's own breaker for power. (multiple plugs can create a loop ) So if I don't play, no hum. But unlike mic'ing, while playing i can hear that steady hum. Anyone experience this? Dirty power? Maybe i should try filtering out frequency for the hum 60hz in my daw ? Who has workarounds.

Have you tried a different power supply for the Cab M ?

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Have you tried a different power supply for the Cab M ?

I have not.. I did notice the amp itself was plugged on a diff outlet so moved everything over to one and it is better now but still that feint sound / hum which i need to take a break from now because I wonder if I am imagining it at this point. I don't think I will be able to do more than I have done.

 

[chumbucket]

I have not.. I did notice the amp itself was plugged on a diff outlet so moved everything over to one and it is better now but still that feint sound / hum which i need to take a break from now because I wonder if I am imagining it at this point. I don't think I will be able to do more than I have done.

I would try another 12v supply, maybe from an isolated pedal board type unit. You could also try to isolate the amp line level signal from the Cab M with something like a Lehle P Split.

 

[Sick Michael]

I found that a power conditioner really helped and actually made the overall tone even better. I was sceptical but it really did.

 

[Solarflares]

I use an APC 1000watt UPS, and single-end shielded mains cables for my amps and racks.
The computer and DAC, and complete monitoring system, are run from a separate 750watt UPS.
All cables, except my 6m guitar cable, are balanced.

Are you using a laptop? Try it on battery only. If hum disappears, then buy a linear power supply for it.
Feint hum can be cables in close proximity sometimes - a 12V near a signal cable. Move it a couple of inches away, and this could do the trick.
The idea of simply isolating your gear from the soundcard is good for quick, simple results.
Behringer do a $20 stereo hum-destroyer. Works well, albeit with a 2dB loss.

Clean mains, and shielded mains cables go a long way.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I use an APC 1000watt UPS, and single-end shielded mains cables for my amps and racks.
The computer and DAC, and complete monitoring system, are run from a separate 750watt UPS.
All cables, except my 6m guitar cable, are balanced.

Are you using a laptop? Try it on battery only. If hum disappears, then buy a linear power supply for it.
Feint hum can be cables in close proximity sometimes - a 12V near a signal cable. Move it a couple of inches away, and this could do the trick.
The idea of simply isolating your gear from the soundcard is good for quick, simple results.
Behringer do a $20 stereo hum-destroyer. Works well, albeit with a 2dB loss.

Clean mains, and shielded mains cables go a long way.

Not a laptop unfortunately. I think it is almost there now but I might try a conditioner to really dial it in. IR's are great but man this stuff can get finicky.

 

[Solarflares]

I buy these used, with new batteries, on eBay.
Can definitely recommend them for ultra-clean mains.

 

[midnightlaundry]

Check ALL Cables..
I once had a broken Ground Wire in the Cable that powered my Monitor.. Pff... fuckin a..

 

[Solarflares]

Sometimes all cables will check out ok.
But, I was taught by Pete Cornish that with multiple earths, all earth runs must have the same resistance, otherwise hum will be induced in the system. You might think it’s zero ohms, but one might be 1 ohm, and the others 0.2 ohm. The result sometimes being feint hum.

A rack power-conditioner like a Furman only protects against huge surges, but is a good way of shortening all your mains cables, leaving a single earth to supply.
I firmly believe in the UPS to provide ripple-free, true sine-wave mains, and it is isolated from the raw mains at the wall.

Obviously, throwing a $9.99 eBay 12V adaptor in your rack, is not usually a great idea. But you can sensibly position things if not racked up, and keep the culprit away from other cables. Better to spend $100 on a linear PSU, rather than struggle with switch-mode supplies.
Shielded mains cables, and balanced signal cables - then you won’t pick anything up - and the UPS gives a hum-free supply to begin with.

In the example below, note that each load-box and dedicated channel-strip are in their own GRP rack boxes. The mixer being in its own case. This is to prevent spurious earthing through the rack-rails. If all units were in one case, then we might well be created earth-loops at least.
Now, my two UPS were $400, all cables $400, extra two cases @400 - but my recording rig is silent, even at full gain, with two amps running.

 

[stratjacket]

I ended up buying a voltage regulator off Amazon and ensuring the gear and computer fed off that and it eliminated the ground loop hum. I think putting the gear and computer on the same power conditioner or any way to ensure they are grounded the same will work.

 

[Solarflares]

I ended up buying a voltage regulator off Amazon and ensuring the gear and computer fed off that and it eliminated the ground loop hum. I think putting the gear and computer on the same power conditioner or any way to ensure they are grounded the same will work.

Having computer and guitar gear on their own UPS is recommended.
And two 750watt UPS are cheaper than one 1500watt.
Usual problem is laptop switch-mode supplies causing noise.
Behringer hum-destroyer is $20, which will cheaply cure the laptop problem, if used on the soundcard line-ins.

I like it, with two UPS. If I have a power cut, I shut everything down, and save work. I then can plug a microwave into one, and a travel kettle in the other, with a small reading lamp. So I can have a hot meal, and coffees all night, with enough light to read a book.

 

[RaceU4her]

all that building an analog studio on to end up using IR's

 

[Solarflares]

all that building an analog studio on to end up using IR's

I don’t use IR’s here. I disagree with the whole premise of them.
Sensible filtering of the signal captured from a true reactive load-box - that is the best method. Especially if you blend filtered and unfiltered to taste.
Mix that with a miked cabinet sometimes, for variation.

 

[RaceU4her]

I don’t use IR’s here. I disagree with the whole premise of them.
Sensible filtering of the signal captured from a true reactive load-box - that is the best method. Especially if you blend filtered and unfiltered to taste.
Mix that with a miked cabinet sometimes, for variation.

I was referring to Kapo, who has been building a studio for years. I’ve never tried IR’s as I’ve spent a ton on mics and speakers, but I get the appeal

 

[Brandonrz]

I have not.. I did notice the amp itself was plugged on a diff outlet so moved everything over to one and it is better now but still that feint sound / hum which i need to take a break from now because I wonder if I am imagining it at this point. I don't think I will be able to do more than I have done.

Was going to suggest this. There’s some other products out there like the hum no that can help, I’ve noticed there’s still a little bit in mine after chasing it…. And just kind of accepted it. If you’re tracking songs during pauses you’ll wind up cutting them out on a track when editing anyway.

 

[midnightlaundry]

My experience with anything mic'ed in a small closet sounds like it was mic'ed in a small closet. I think it's Comb Filtering, where all the sounds are bouncing around a canceling each other out and it sounds boxy..

Someone did a video where they barely had the volume up on a 412 but the sound was metal and mixed great.

I don't have the luxury to record loud. I have the cab on my left side with a mic on it like 5 feet away from me. It sounds fine. It doesn't need to be loud.

My suggestion is get the cab in the room with the mic away from the grill like 6-8 inches and pointing at the edge of but not on the dust cap. If it's to bright move it a little farther from the dust cap but still 6-8 from the grill. It will be open sounding where close ass micing brings in proximity and actually makes the sound dull..

 

[tjnx]

I got this plugin idea from @2dor when he posted a NAM video, the Bertom Denoiser Classic plugin works great. I put it first in the signal chain.
https://bertomaudio.com/denoiser-classic.html

I have a pretty good interface I think but when I go in and play sims + IRs my pickups do create a lot more hum. I think its my laptop's psu and possibly my monitor as I can reduce it by changing orientation. This plugin works great but it is destructive to an extent.

I still get better results from a quietly mic'd cab though. Changing out the stock supply to a one-spot on my tonex pedal eliminates the hum so there might be something there. I'd also like to know if you figure it out.

 

[Greazygeo]

Does your Cab M have a ground lift
For the Xlr? Try that if you have not.

With everything plugged into the same outlet, may try some 3 prong to 2 prong adapters on various power cables, see if you can find the offending piece of gear.

Try an isolation transformer to input of amp.

For micing in the closet, try the SE Reflexion deal. They work great in small areas.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

My experience with anything mic'ed in a small closet sounds like it was mic'ed in a small closet. I think it's Comb Filtering, where all the sounds are bouncing around a canceling each other out and it sounds boxy..

Someone did a video where they barely had the volume up on a 412 but the sound was metal and mixed great.

I don't have the luxury to record loud. I have the cab on my left side with a mic on it like 5 feet away from me. It sounds fine. It doesn't need to be loud.

My suggestion is get the cab in the room with the mic away from the grill like 6-8 inches and pointing at the edge of but not on the dust cap. If it's to bright move it a little farther from the dust cap but still 6-8 from the grill. It will be open sounding where close ass micing brings in proximity and actually makes the sound dull..

You are correct. I mic'ed the left track through my jcm 800 combo in the room with an E906 on an old G1265 and it sounds good an open to my ears. Not as full as a 4x12 but doesn't have that inherent boxiness the treated closet has. So i think i am going to track that combo in the room and the other chanel and leads via IR. I also have a 4x12 in the room with V30's but it is so close to the IR that I think I might as well just go with the IR. I thought an amp closet was a great idea but it doesn't work that great. You need depth and width for those reflections to not crowd the space/signal.