I finally found out what the pot behind van halen VH1 does (it wasn't a master at all)

[jabps]

Eddie, despite going to see Mike Soldano, had techs at home who could have brought the amp back to stock, or maybe it was returned to stock after VH2, since he said he didn’t like that tone because it had too many mids and was too bright. I tend to believe the latter.

Which again brings it all back full circle to "hearsay" which was my original response to you.

We do know for fact that multiple people have been in that amp, multiple people have worked on it and multiple people have said it wasn't modded. Flipside, many have said it was modded and yet there is no verifiable schematic out of there of the supposed "mod". Until that is the case I'm gonna keep taking all those legendary amp guys word for it.

Bottom line man, it's just your opinion and you've presented nothing to change that. And why you should have led this entire thread with "these are my opinions" rather than presenting your position as fact. Had you done so this discussion probably doesn't go sideways. Big difference between fact and opinion.

 

[Cless357]

Maybe 3 things which may seem odd :
- 50k mid pot => surely a mistake at factory or what was available the day the amp was built
- 330uf fat cap => only mod done by José, the time it was done is unknow, and it can make the amp too boomy as it also boosts the lows, not always appreciated and not really needed as a classic 0.68uf cap already boosts the sufficient frequencies (mids and highs)
- 100k nfb resistor on 4ohm tap => maybe a mod, maybe a stock variation at factory

So compared to more usual values, yes all of this can produce a bit more gain, but nothing spectacular or out of ordinary. It will still sound like a cranked plexi.

 

[harddriver]

Maybe 3 things which may seem odd :
- 50k mid pot => surely a mistake at factory or what was available the day the amp was built
- 330uf fat cap => only mod done by José, the time it was done is unknow, and it can make the amp too boomy as it also boosts the lows, not always appreciated and not really needed as a classic 0.68uf cap already boosts the sufficient frequencies (mids and highs)
- 100k nfb resistor on 4ohm tap => maybe a mod, maybe a stock variation at factory

So compared to more usual values, yes all of this can produce a bit more gain, but nothing spectacular or out of ordinary. It will still sound like a cranked plexi.

I agree that the 330uf V2A cap tends to make things too fat and wooly, greasey to my ears but some people like it. Supposedly Jose did prefer the 100K NFB resistor on the 4 ohm tap, but again not crazy different but the 47K on the 8ohm tap or on the speaker jacks gives a bit more headroom and clarity, it probably was 47K on the speaker jack from the factory even if it was changed to 100K 4 ohm tap.

Mike Soldano/Dave Friedman says the wooden headbox plexi was a Super Bass that Ed used for a power amp alot but Soldano said either that amp or another Super Bass that Ed loved as much as 12301 that was all stock, ie: shared cathode configuration SB except Ed had a 25uf cap on V2A to boost some gain without pushing the lows that the 330uf cap does. You can put them all on a switch and decide what you like, I ended up back to stock .68uf on V2 after trying every usable value on V2.

 

[Nigel]

50k mod keeps the treble from “Crashing” when the tone stack is dimed, per Dave Friedman.

In my experience it makes the smile eq less scooped when dimed on my Zinky which is a modified Fender TMB.

 

[Anje]

Yes; never had a problem getting early EVH style sound & feel with my old "stock" late 60's / early 70's 4 input Marshall amps.
I actually like a good 50w lead for that sound, with the right cab (love my '68 slant with G12H) it can be just as "good" as a 100w, being more "manageable" and doesn't need the variac thing to get a slightly more compressed "brown" feel.

Some late 60's SuperBass can also be fantastic for that style, and you can fine tune to your particular taste/rig with all kind of stuff in front.

 

[Cless357]

50k mod keeps the treble from “Crashing” when the tone stack it dined, per Dave Friedman.

In my experience it makes the smile eq less scooped when dimed on my Zinky which is a modified Fender TMB.

I never really understood what that treble crashing is

 

[VonBonfire]

Yes; never had a problem getting early EVH style sound & feel with my old "stock" late 60's / early 70's 4 input Marshall amps.
I actually like a good 50w lead for that sound, with the right cab (love my '68 slant with G12H) it can be just as "good" as a 100w, being more "manageable" and doesn't need the variac thing to get a slightly more compressed "brown" feel.

Some late 60's SuperBass can also be fantastic for that style, and you can fine tune to your particular taste/rig with all kind of stuff in front.

Heck yeah, a practical approach. Approximate rig+chops=winning combo. Same thing can be said for Jimi/SRV tones. I think some people have gone insane and lost all focus on what counts the most.

 

[7704A]

I think some people have gone insane and lost all focus on what counts the most.

The shoes?

 

[VonBonfire]

The shoes?

When two of the most legendary guitarists on the planet have a shoe line, take note.

 

[Racerxrated]

There were no jbl according to martin smith and i believe he is right it was probably two different greenbacks miced differently by Donn Landee’s different mic position. That was donn’s own secret technique… Martin did his own research and i fully agree with him.

Let’s just stop this now….

It seems very obvious that you for some really strange reason are leaning on individuals (who is Martin Smith? Why does he know more than the sound engineers who actually recorded the album? or Eddie himself??) that agree with your wacky theory of 'no JBLS'.....even though we KNOW they were in his cabs for VHI and WE KNOW he and others that RECORDED THE DAMN ALBUM said they recorded them.
Let's just stop this now.
Admit the obvious.
JBLs were used.

 

[Racerxrated]

I tried mixing two original 16ohm JBL120F's ( which are hard to get in 16 ohm) in my greenback cab around 2009/10 and while they may sound great recorded and mixed I didn't care for them so I pulled them and sold them, but that doesn't negate that they were indeed used on the recording of VH1. As Racer and many have said as well as Friedman, Thorn, Ahsen the JBLD120F is probably were that extrat high end sizzle is coming from on VH1 that you don't hear on VHII. I have no problem agreeing with that conclusion.

I still have a few 120Fs here; one in a 72 Twin. When I experimented with the 78 album tone I used 2 JBL D123s instead of 120Fs, with 2 8 ohm 6402 GBs. There it was! With an 82 2204 and a pedal, or straight in that was THE sound of VHI. Ain't Talkin Bout Love, Running with the Devil, etc all sounded spot on with that sizzle. I just needed a good reverb and a better player playing and it would be spot on lol.
No more brown sound chasing needed. That speaker combo was 6/10s of the way there IMO.

 

[harddriver]

Yep.. My money still is on John Suhr, I bet he is not yet convinced.

Interesting part starts at timestamp.

 

[VonBonfire]

I still have a few 120Fs here; one in a 72 Twin. When I experimented with the 78 album tone I used 2 JBL D123s instead of 120Fs, with 2 8 ohm 6402 GBs. There it was! With an 82 2204 and a pedal, or straight in that was THE sound of VHI. Ain't Talkin Bout Love, Running with the Devil, etc all sounded spot on with that sizzle. I just needed a good reverb and a better player playing and it would be spot on lol.
No more brown sound chasing needed. That speaker combo was 6/10s of the way there IMO.

I let my last three D series go in '23. Was tired of blowing speakers once a year at low buck gigs. Kept the K-120, it was way broken in and finally died last year. Planning on getting another K and having them both reconed at some stage. The sizzle, the compression, and enough durability to hold up in a Twin. The monster alnico and chrome dome add something special to the tone.