IR Questions

[Sick Michael]

UPDATE:

Ok Ive gone down the rabbit hole. This is a nightmare. Literally thousands of the things. Most sound like shit.

However, I found one that I actually dig - its a G12h-30, which I'm totally not surprised about, as thats probably my favourite speaker. Wow, this actually sounds good, a little bit of EQ needed...but otherwise...its the only one. Ive been through Leon todds free ones, and as many others as I can find.

Im spent....for the life of me, Im done. Got the one I need. The end.

 

[Zado]

Try IRs they said.

It'll be fun they said.

 

[nightlight]

No. the point remains the same - if you know (in advance) you are playing a gig that is big enough to have a nice PA and you can get away with it, there's no reason to have the amp and cab in the first place.

Conversely, If you show up to a gig and it doesn't have a nice enough PA to support you with just a modeler (or a preamp plus a stompbox like the cab M as you mentioned) then you are going to need an amp either way.

Something like the cab M is a great piece of gear to give you some versatility if you are going to be playing gigs of wildly different room and venue sizes, but that's a rather rare and very specific situation, as I'm sure literally every single person who has experience gigging will attest. The problem is, it's just as "stompbox sized" as an sm57 and a big XLR cord, and the soundman is more likely to know what to do with the sm57.

This is the crux of the issue IRs and modelers face, and i'm trying to explain - you very, very rarely know in advance exactly how nice the PA and sound setup is going to be if you are actually out gigging and touring.

Either

1. You are playing small gigs in dive bars, small clubs, small outdoor festivals, or wineries (IE less than 100 people) and it's going to be impossible to make it work with an IR setup or a modeler. This is the vast majority of gigging guitar players, of all genres.

Or

2. You are going to be playing large clubs, small theaters, and places that you know the PA is going to be great, and you will have a dedicated soundman on hand. This isn't unheard of, but your band has to be at a pretty high level, you are bringing and running your own sound, or you aren't gigging at all but playing the same place (IE Church Worship etc) and you know exactly what the PA is going to be.


That's fine if you would rather take the Cab M+ as a "backup" or "auxiliary" device to have around. But to be sure you would be able to use it AT ALL means you would be bringing the PA too, which is the point youre commenting on.

I was referring to your earlier post about having to bring either an amp and cabinet or a PA system for loadout actually.

I'd look at the amp/cab/cabm solution as a lightweight hybrid rig. You can just mute or attenuate the signal to the cabinet while sending out a robust signal to FOH. Not a good PA system? Rely on the amp and cabinet. Good PA system? Use it for the heavy lifting via the CabM.

As someone else mentioned, the CabM will take the guesswork out of the micing process. With an amp, you get better tones than digital. And with a cabinet, you can move some air.

It's just one piece of equipment really. Another way is using a loadbox and an IR loader, but that's two pieces of gear. However, the benefit is a silent stage.

 

[DanTravis62]

the benefit is a silent stage.

If you think that's a benefit, we have very different ideas of how live music works

 

[DanTravis62]

As someone else mentioned, the CabM will take the guesswork out of the micing process.

Dude if you think you're more likely to find a soundman who is less likely to know how to mic up a cabinet with a 57 versus using IRs through the monitors, I have waterfront property in oklahoma to sell you

 

[Jakem]

I am awaiting for Friedman to release the IR Load on Q4 this year; stereo line outs for IRs so that You can have different IRs on both channels not forgetting the stereo power amp.

 

[Brandonrz]

I think its taking me a while to get over the "feel" of it. I just recorded some bits with a G12h30 IR and it sounds righteous on the recording.

Its the wierdness....it could be a "me" problem

After going down this rabbit hole for years. I think

1. Not all IRs are created equal… way too many you need to suck the shit out of 250 hz to get them to sound good. I’d recommend mirror profiles, Josh Middleton, or titan audio. I’ve tried most IR companies out there and these are the best IMO.

2. Is the painful realization maybe your tone isn’t as good as you thought it was. I know guys hammer the “in the room” vs recorded tone… I’ll say I’ve never had a tone that sounded great recorded sound like shit in the room. But I’ve had wayyyyy too many tones sound cool in the room, but sound like ass recorded. The most common offender for me was using too much low mids. Guys will think something is great because playing a cranked up tube amp makes your brain think it sounds good…. And it doesn’t. It’s just that more volume always tricks your brain into thinking something sounds better than it actually does. This is true with mixing and mastering too. I’ve mixed too loud then turn it down a bit and realize I made something that sounds like a steaming pile of shit.

3. Recording one track 100 panned left, and 100 panned right will make it sound way more like what you experience in the room as the sound will surround you instead. After time recording you’ll be able to tell what something will sound like double tracked before you even do it.

 

[romanianreaper]

I should be gigging with my Synergy 20 IR this next gig I have and going to run the XLR out to the soundman. I'm haven't decided yet. I might wimp out and take my Orange Supercrush 100.

 

[Sick Michael]

After going down this rabbit hole for years. I think

1. Not all IRs are created equal… way too many you need to suck the shit out of 250 hz to get them to sound good. I’d recommend mirror profiles, Josh Middleton, or titan audio. I’ve tried most IR companies out there and these are the best IMO.

2. Is the painful realization maybe your tone isn’t as good as you thought it was. I know guys hammer the “in the room” vs recorded tone… I’ll say I’ve never had a tone that sounded great recorded sound like shit in the room. But I’ve had wayyyyy too many tones sound cool in the room, but sound like ass recorded. The most common offender for me was using too much low mids. Guys will think something is great because playing a cranked up tube amp makes your brain think it sounds good…. And it doesn’t. It’s just that more volume always tricks your brain into thinking something sounds better than it actually does. This is true with mixing and mastering too. I’ve mixed too loud then turn it down a bit and realize I made something that sounds like a steaming pile of shit.

3. Recording one track 100 panned left, and 100 panned right will make it sound way more like what you experience in the room as the sound will surround you instead. After time recording you’ll be able to tell what something will sound like double tracked before you even do it.

Nice insights, thanks for sharing. Fortunately I really only have about 5 or 6 core tones that I fixate upon. Ive discovered that most of the IRs Ive tried, just dont vibe with me at all. Im also of the mind that I only need 1. I think id go mad, if I tried to get one for cleans, crunch, rock, metal...etc. Im sticking to one and just making that work.

I might see if I can record what I have. But I have to say, the one good one I've found has marginally improved things.

 

[Sick Michael]

I should be gigging with my Synergy 20 IR this next gig I have and going to run the XLR out to the soundman. I'm haven't decided yet. I might wimp out and take my Orange Supercrush 100.

I was using a DI and then just EQing it. It was alive, and still sounded legit.

 

[Shask]

Nice insights, thanks for sharing. Fortunately I really only have about 5 or 6 core tones that I fixate upon. Ive discovered that most of the IRs Ive tried, just dont vibe with me at all. Im also of the mind that I only need 1. I think id go mad, if I tried to get one for cleans, crunch, rock, metal...etc. Im sticking to one and just making that work.

I might see if I can record what I have. But I have to say, the one good one I've found has marginally improved things.

You probably dont switch between 20 different real cabs, so no reason why you need 20 IRs. I think it is best to find a couple you love and stick with that.

 

[Rottweiler]

Update:
I picked up some aftermarket IRs and Holy Schneikies, I'm seeing there is a difference worth finding. @DanTravis62 I'm not sure what the rules are for mentioning the brands, and I'm sure there are good ones out there that I haven't tried yet.

First thing I noticed is that most of the aftermarket ones are significantly better than what came loaded in my GPDIIR. Having grown up analog and changed a few speakers, I can hear the speaker characteristics in each one.

My advice to anyone new to the game or recently frustrated, would be to buy a few IR packs or individual files that have decent reviews. Try a few from the speaker manufacturer also. Not all of them are created equal. Start slow and learn what mics you like. I grew up on single 57s, but I kind of like the 57/421 blend at least for now.

Some observations:
Buying the IR for a few specific models has sated the drive to seek out a few vintage speakers. So the $40 I spent on a few IRs saved me hundreds and some time. For just a few bucks and a few minutes time, you get to hear a close approximation, at least with my headphones.

 

[Tone Monster]

Update:
I picked up some aftermarket IRs and Holy Schneikies, I'm seeing there is a difference worth finding. @DanTravis62 I'm not sure what the rules are for mentioning the brands, and I'm sure there are good ones out there that I haven't tried yet.

First thing I noticed is that most of the aftermarket ones are significantly better than what came loaded in my GPDIIR. Having grown up analog and changed a few speakers, I can hear the speaker characteristics in each one.

My advice to anyone new to the game or recently frustrated, would be to buy a few IR packs or individual files that have decent reviews. Try a few from the speaker manufacturer also. Not all of them are created equal. Start slow and learn what mics you like. I grew up on single 57s, but I kind of like the 57/421 blend at least for now.

Some observations:
Buying the IR for a few specific models has sated the drive to seek out a few vintage speakers. So the $40 I spent on a few IRs saved me hundreds and some time. For just a few bucks and a few minutes time, you get to hear a close approximation, at least with my headphones.

IRs are so freaking good , yeah?

 

[DanTravis62]

Update:
I picked up some aftermarket IRs and Holy Schneikies, I'm seeing there is a difference worth finding. @DanTravis62 I'm not sure what the rules are for mentioning the brands, and I'm sure there are good ones out there that I haven't tried yet.

First thing I noticed is that most of the aftermarket ones are significantly better than what came loaded in my GPDIIR. Having grown up analog and changed a few speakers, I can hear the speaker characteristics in each one.

My advice to anyone new to the game or recently frustrated, would be to buy a few IR packs or individual files that have decent reviews. Try a few from the speaker manufacturer also. Not all of them are created equal. Start slow and learn what mics you like. I grew up on single 57s, but I kind of like the 57/421 blend at least for now.

Some observations:
Buying the IR for a few specific models has sated the drive to seek out a few vintage speakers. So the $40 I spent on a few IRs saved me hundreds and some time. For just a few bucks and a few minutes time, you get to hear a close approximation, at least with my headphones.

No rules, just let us know if you're sponsored by fricker

 

[Shask]

Update:
I picked up some aftermarket IRs and Holy Schneikies, I'm seeing there is a difference worth finding. @DanTravis62 I'm not sure what the rules are for mentioning the brands, and I'm sure there are good ones out there that I haven't tried yet.

First thing I noticed is that most of the aftermarket ones are significantly better than what came loaded in my GPDIIR. Having grown up analog and changed a few speakers, I can hear the speaker characteristics in each one.

My advice to anyone new to the game or recently frustrated, would be to buy a few IR packs or individual files that have decent reviews. Try a few from the speaker manufacturer also. Not all of them are created equal. Start slow and learn what mics you like. I grew up on single 57s, but I kind of like the 57/421 blend at least for now.

Some observations:
Buying the IR for a few specific models has sated the drive to seek out a few vintage speakers. So the $40 I spent on a few IRs saved me hundreds and some time. For just a few bucks and a few minutes time, you get to hear a close approximation, at least with my headphones.

Buying big packs like York Audio and mixing my own IRs is one of the main things that got me actually liking playing into the computer.