KHE switcher with Fryette PS2 help?

[mctallica1]

Since deciding to keep a third amp and implement a switching system, it looks like I am jumping into (what for me is) the deep end of routing.

I ordered a KHE ACS 4x2 for the routing. Plan to use three amps into two 8 ohm cabs that will be used all the time.

Additionally, I’ve had a Fryette PS2 sitting in a box for quite a while that I plan to use as the master loop/attenuator/final tweak machine. I’ve never used the PS2 as anything but a power amp, but when I found out it could be used as a master loop for all three amps in conjunction with the KHE, I decided to go this route rather than order a KHE unit with loop capabilities. Not sure if it is a good or bad decision yet

The only things I keep in the loop now are a MXR 10 Band EQ and a Line 6 Echo Park that I use for very minor Ducking Delay. I’ve been toying with getting a Fortin Zuul or use one of my OG ISP Decimator pedals in the loop (I’ve never used a gate in a loop before….not even sure what position it should be in when using the EQ and delay).

In front of the switcher, I will have several boost pedals (usually 4 flavors on my board at a time) and a Decimator.

I’ve read the manuals for both units along with a piece that KHE has specifically regarding use with the Fryette PS and get the basic routing/cabling needed.

The part that confuses me a bit is the programming that will be needed.

Does anyone have experience with this setup that can chime in on the programming, watch outs, etc?

Gotta admit I feel a bit intimidated by stepping into this world. Any guidance is appreciated!
T

 

[RedB4Black]

What do you need to program? I think the only thing would be the MIDI to change the heads. I don't even bother with that, I just use the switches. As far as the PS-2, you'd just send from the attenuator loop of the KHE to the input of the PS2, then run your loop (I go to the Zuul, then Eventide H9, then Mesa EQ for my loop - though I don't use a PS...I have the separte FX8 from KHE, but the concept is the same) then out back to the KHE attneuator return. I think you are then stuck with the loop always on though...which you probably want anyway with the noise gate in there. The Zuul is great as you can use the key input.

 

[mctallica1]

Thank you!

I was under the impression, maybe incorrectly, that I needed to do something with the KHE for it to recognize/engage with the attenuator. I’ll re-read the manuals when I get a chance.

The KHE shipped yesterday, so I have a few days to get it straight.

I can’t remember the last time I didn’t have the loop active on any amp i own(ed), so I’m not concerned about it always being on.

I haven’t done a lot of research on the Zuul, so I don’t even know what the key input is or does . I’ve only ever used a gate before the amp and the first gen Decimator works great for that, in my experience.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

You shouldn’t need to do anything special for the KHE -> PS connection to work properly. Just plug the KHE Cab 1 Out jack into the PS Amp Input jack and you’re good. The KHE won’t allow you to select any cabs that don’t have anything plugged into the jack so that should take care of itself.

As for MIDI, with my KHE I just program patches with a simple convention, basically [cab #][amp #].

Patch 11 = cab 1, amp 1
Patch 12 = cab 1, amp 2
Patch 23 = cab 2, amp 3
etc

Makes it easy to remember. Actually I treat my Cab 1 as the default, so for that cab’s patches, I skip the cab prefix also. Patch 1 = Cab 1, Amp 1. Patch 2 = Cab 1, Amp 2. etc. Even easier.

 

[technomancer]

Why would you use the cab line instead of the S-Line loop?

Follow the instructions in the manual to enable the attenuator loop and plug it in there. If you want the PS2 loop turn it on, if not leave it bypassed.

https://www.khe-audioelectronics.com/attenuator-guide

I'm not using the loop on my PS100 but I am using the line out to drive a line mixer and effects into a stereo power amp

 

[mctallica1]

1. Connect the PS AMP IN jack to the white KHE S-LINE SEND, using a speaker cable. This sends the activated amp speaker output signal to the input of the PS’s reactive load box.
2. Connect the PS SPEAKER OUT - TOP JACK to the white KHE S-LINE RETURN jack, using a speaker cable. This sends the PS’s speaker output signal back into the KHE cabinet switching section. Do not connect or use the bottom speaker jack at all. For the Impedance Switch settings, see all details further down below.
3. Power-On the KHE. Do not power-on the amps or PS yet and set the PS bypass switch to OPERATE. Turn the master volume of the PS and amps down.
4. Activate the KHE Attenuator Loop in the System Menu after connecting it. If not activated, the attenuator won’t work correctly. See this link: How to activate the KHE Attenuator Insert Loop
5. Activate a Speaker Cab on the KHE to provide a load for the PS output (it’s a tube amp).
6. Power-On the PS and the Amp Heads and let them warm-up for 2 minutes .
7. Activate an Amp on the KHE and slowly increase the volume of the amp and the PS and test everything in detail.
8. The system is now ready to use.

Found the instructions I thought I saw. Instruction 4 is where I get confused.

The link takes me to this:

How to activate the Attenuator Loop:

1. Connect the attenuator to the white KHE S-Line jacks as shown in the diagram. Turn down the volume of the attenuator and the amps.
2. Power on the KHE. If the attenuator has a bypass switch, set it to active.
3. Enter the System Menu by pressing the KHE CTRL button for 3 seconds, then release it. The CTRL light starts to blink 1x, indicating “Page 1 - System Functions” is active. “Page 2 - MIDI Menu” would have 2x blinks of the CTRL light. To flip the menu page, short-press the CTRL button. The attenuator loop control is on “Page 1 - System Functions”.
4. Press Switch AMP 4 to activate the attenuator loop in the System Menu. If the light of amp 4 turns ON, the loop is activated. If AMP 4 light blinks 4 times, it means no attenuator no attenuator was detected by the KHE and the attenuator loop didn't get activated for safety reasons (check the wiring & cables). If the light of amp 4 is off, the loop is deactivated.
5. Exit and save the System Menu by pressing the CTRL button again for 3 seconds, then releasing it. The CTRL turns red (or green if linked) and the switcher is back in normal switching operation. All settings are saved and will be automatically loaded on the next power-up.
6. Activate a speaker cab and an amplifier on the KHE. Slowly increase the volume of the amp and the attenuator and verify everything works as intended.

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KHE System Menu Layout

Notes:

• The attenuator loop won't turn on if no actual attenuator is connected. The KHE checks the attenuator load resistance, and if it doesn't detect it, the attenuator loop stays inactive for safety (AMP 4 light blinks four times). It's crucial to connect the attenuator before activating the loop.
• Turning off the KHE Attenuator Loop doesn't bypass the attenuator itself. The KHE does not have an Attenuator Bypass function. To fully deactivate the attenuator, both disconnect the attenuator cables at the S-Line jacks and disable it in the system menu. It's essential to always deactivate and disconnect the attenuator to prevent potential damage to the KHE, the amps, or the attenuator. If the Attenuator Loop is inactive, the S-Line jacks operate in Link Mode configuration for connecting KHE switchers.
• When the KHE powers up, the attenuator loop is only activated if the KHE detects the presence of the attenuator. If the attenuator is not connected or in bypass mode, the attenuator loop remains disabled. All cab lights will blink if the attenuator is missing or in bypass state (new 2024 feature, serial nr B6-xxx or higher).
• Therefore, if the attenuator has a BYPASS switch, it's important to set it to 'on/active' before turning on the KHE.

KHE ACS System Menu​

The KHE ACS features a hidden System Menu for activating its special modes and functions, as well as programming the MIDI channel. In the system menu, the ACS front panel switches, lights and CTRL button control the menu and the programming. The small CTRL light shows the menu state. The menu has two pages:

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Menu Control​

To enter the System Menu, press and hold the CTRL button for 3 seconds, then release it. The CTRL LED starts to blink. The flashing interval of the CTRL LED indicates the activated menu page:

• Page 1 - System Functions = 1x blink CTRL red
• Page 2 - MIDI Channel Setting = 2x blink CTRL red

To flip between pages, short-press the CTRL button. To exit the menu, press and hold the CTRL button for 3 seconds again, then release it. The CTRL turns red again (or green if linked) and the switcher returns to normal switching operation. All settings are saved and will be automatically loaded upon the next power-up.

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Page 1 - System Functions​

On menu page one (1x blink CTRL red), the first 4 AMP switches turn the following modes on or off. If the corresponding AMP light is red on, the mode is activated. If the AMP light is off, the mode is deactivated.

• Amp 1 Switch: Recall Mode
• Amp 2 Switch: Dual Cab Mode
• Amp 3 Switch: Ground Lift
• Amp 4 Switch: Attenuator Insert Loop (blinks 4 times if no attenuator is connected)
• Last Cab Switch: Cab Safe Mode (only available on units with serial B6-xxx or higher (starting Feb’ 2024)

This may look simple to some, but not to me…

I won’t be using midi, so don’t need to know how to set that up.

Thank you!

 

[RedB4Black]

Why would you use the cab line instead of the S-Line loop?

Follow the instructions in the manual to enable the attenuator loop and plug it in there. If you want the PS2 loop turn it on, if not leave it bypassed.

https://www.khe-audioelectronics.com/attenuator-guide

I'm not using the loop on my PS100 but I am using the line out to drive a line mixer and effects into a stereo power amp

With the PS, the S line is correct. I don't use an attenuator in mine, but I do use that loop for a Bray LO-1 to tap off signal to send to an FX unit....then to a separate power amp for W/D/W with any amp that is active in the KHE.

 

[RedB4Black]

I haven’t done a lot of research on the Zuul, so I don’t even know what the key input is or does . I’ve only ever used a gate before the amp and the first gen Decimator works great for that, in my experience.

I have an older Zuul so I run guitar into a splitter (fortin spliff) one side then goes to the OD pedals then the front of the amp input. the other side goes to the key input of the zuul. Then the in/out of the zuul are in the loop. Basically it gives you the effect of gating in front of the amp and in the loop. No feed back from the input and no hum. Best of both worlds. Newer zuuls inputs are different so you don't need the splitter anymore.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Why would you use the cab line instead of the S-Line loop?

Follow the instructions in the manual to enable the attenuator loop and plug it in there. If you want the PS2 loop turn it on, if not leave it bypassed.

https://www.khe-audioelectronics.com/attenuator-guide

I'm not using the loop on my PS100 but I am using the line out to drive a line mixer and effects into a stereo power amp

I personally run it that way because I don’t have any real cabs plugged in otherwise, and it’s just easier and requires fewer configuration steps (and accomplishes the exact same thing) to plug a reactive load into the cab out and call it a day.

If I wanted to use the PS, or another reamp solution, or an attenuator, and if I wanted the ability to swap them in and out of the chain, then yes wiring them into the attenuator loop would be better.

But if you know you’re always going to run your amps into a reactive load or attenuator then there’s no reason to introduce the extra complication, especially considering that the S-Line can’t be toggled with a physical button on the front of the unit.

 

[RedB4Black]

I personally run it that way because I don’t have any real cabs plugged in otherwise, and it’s just easier and requires fewer configuration steps (and accomplishes the exact same thing) to plug a reactive load into the cab out and call it a day.

If I wanted to use the PS, or another reamp solution, or an attenuator, and if I wanted the ability to swap them in and out of the chain, then yes wiring them into the attenuator loop would be better.

But if you know you’re always going to run your amps into a reactive load or attenuator then there’s no reason to introduce the extra complication, especially considering that the S-Line can’t be toggled with a physical button on the front of the unit.

But then you can't use the cab switching. It probably doesn't matter if you are only using one cab though.

 

[S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑]

I seem to remember the fryette ps100 not working for the zuul for some reason...

 

[TheGreatGreen]

But then you can't use the cab switching. It probably doesn't matter if you are only using one cab though.

Yep that’s true on both counts. If you swap between multiple cabs then for sure the S-Line would be the way to go, but if you don’t, then the S-Line out and Cab out do the exact same thing.

 

[mctallica1]

Lots of good info here.

I intend to use the PS2 as an attenuator/master effects loop and run 2, 8 ohm cabs using 3 amps.

Looks like I need to set the PS2 and amps to 4 ohms.

Im still fuzzy on activating the attenuator loop on the KHE, but maybe it will be more clear when I actually have the unit in front of me…..trying to get educated as much as possible before attempting setup. Routing anything even remotely complicated has always intimidated me a bit. In the grand scheme of things, it may not be that complicated, but this will be, by far the most complicated setup I’ve ever used.

Once I get everything setup correctly, will the unit automatically revert to how it was set up last when I power on again?

Appreciate all the info.
T

 

[RedB4Black]

Lots of good info here.

I intend to use the PS2 as an attenuator/master effects loop and run 2, 8 ohm cabs using 3 amps.

Looks like I need to set the PS2 and amps to 4 ohms.

Im still fuzzy on activating the attenuator loop on the KHE, but maybe it will be more clear when I actually have the unit in front of me…..trying to get educated as much as possible before attempting setup. Routing anything even remotely complicated has always intimidated me a bit. In the grand scheme of things, it may not be that complicated, but this will be, by far the most complicated setup I’ve ever used.

Once I get everything setup correctly, will the unit automatically revert to how it was set up last when I power on again?

Appreciate all the info.
T

Yes. Set up stays with what had before…so cab mode and loop mode doesn’t need to be set every time