dead-pan
Well-known member
Some of the recent acquisitions.
Seems one might be a scam. Anyone have info?
Seems one might be a scam. Anyone have info?
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CDawg
Well-known member
From L to R:
RFT EL34, Foton 6P3S, Hitachi 6L6GC
RFT EL34, Foton 6P3S, Hitachi 6L6GC
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dead-pan
Well-known member
The Philips branding is misleading for sure.
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CDawg
Well-known member
I haven't seen a tube company that didn't lie or relabel tubes. A lot of them in the 70s/80s just lied.
After checking again that middle one is actually a Foton.
dead-pan
Well-known member
Any info on these?
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CDawg
Well-known member
Anything specific you want to know I'll try to answer.
Not 100% sure if that's the thin or thick base RFT. Looks like the older thicker one made in Mulhausen.
Looks like a later Foton and they're highly regarded for durability and sound quality.
Hitachi is better than most of what is made now but it's not in the same league as the RFT or Foton for sound quality IMO.
dead-pan
Well-known member
For the middle tube, what are the defining features that say it is a Foton? The tubes seem pretty balanced and clear. They are a bit cold though.
The RTF is a thick base. It seems brighter, the stringyness of the Marshalls comes through good with them. What are the differences with the different RTF in your experience?
I only have one of the 3rd tube. I paired it with a Sylvania 387 and it was a very nice combination.
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CDawg
Well-known member
It's best to identify tubes by construction and sound over what's on the label. You look at the parts such as the base, flashing, getter, plates, getter, micas, etc. and eventually you just learn things. Lot's of companies share construction materials and techniques. Just go on ebay and type Foton 6P3S and you'll start to be able to make sense of things and how there's different versions of Foton 6P3S just like New Sensor has different versions of the 12AX7 (Electro-Harmonix, Genalex, Mullard, Sovtek, Svetlana, Tung Sol, etc.). It's a nightmare to learn all this and you cannot do it by yourself. I try to think of it as a team sport.
One I own says made for CGE (Canadian General Electric who made their own tubes and separate from American General Electric but still have some relationship with each other.) On the bottle. Says made in West Germany on the glass. Its a Foton from Russia. Tube companies will write anything on a bottle for money.
There's four different RFTs you're likely to come across for audio tubes. Some Tesla and ZWLE can look like RFT too but they are not. Once again you cannot trust a label and have to learn construction. The skinny base RFT EL34 is WF and the fat base is Mulhausen. This is the fat base IIRC.
This is the skinny base from WF even though it says Mulhausen.
For RFT 12AX7...
The two on the left with the plates bent over with single and double foil getters are from Erfurt. The two middle with he plates bent over with double and single ring getters are from WF. The one on the right with stapled plates and a single foil ring getter is from Neuhaus and that's what most people would be familiar with.
If you look at the plates for the RFT minatures like ECC81/ECC82/ECC83 if they're bent over then it's an Erfurt or WF. If they're stapled together then it's a Mulhausen or Neu Haus. Don't trust anything on the labels especially a RFT. It's all about the physical construction and sound.
WF would be my first choice. Mulhausen next. Neu Haus next. Erfurt would be my last choice.
Hitachi is okay IMO but I'm picky.
One I own says made for CGE (Canadian General Electric who made their own tubes and separate from American General Electric but still have some relationship with each other.) On the bottle. Says made in West Germany on the glass. Its a Foton from Russia. Tube companies will write anything on a bottle for money.
There's four different RFTs you're likely to come across for audio tubes. Some Tesla and ZWLE can look like RFT too but they are not. Once again you cannot trust a label and have to learn construction. The skinny base RFT EL34 is WF and the fat base is Mulhausen. This is the fat base IIRC.
This is the skinny base from WF even though it says Mulhausen.
For RFT 12AX7...
The two on the left with the plates bent over with single and double foil getters are from Erfurt. The two middle with he plates bent over with double and single ring getters are from WF. The one on the right with stapled plates and a single foil ring getter is from Neuhaus and that's what most people would be familiar with.
If you look at the plates for the RFT minatures like ECC81/ECC82/ECC83 if they're bent over then it's an Erfurt or WF. If they're stapled together then it's a Mulhausen or Neu Haus. Don't trust anything on the labels especially a RFT. It's all about the physical construction and sound.
WF would be my first choice. Mulhausen next. Neu Haus next. Erfurt would be my last choice.
Hitachi is okay IMO but I'm picky.
Alpha Stryke
Well-known member
Show me yer tOObz.
PDC
Well-known member
I have been scooping up the Groove Tube labeled Tesla Brown Base Dual Halo Getter EL34s whenever a set pops up on the Bay or the Verb. In the late 80s these were designated EL34B. I recently found a matched pair of Groove Tubes labeled E34LS that is literally a pair of Dual Halo Getter Teslas but with the Black Base - definitely not the typical GT E34LS variant. Legit Dual Halo Getter EL34s do sound really, really nice - whether Brown or Black base.
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CDawg
Well-known member
Brown base Tesla EL34 is from 60s-80s. Black base would be a JJ from the 90s. For a time I think JJ operated under the Teslovak brand in the early 1990s.
When Czechoslovakia broke up all the state owned Tesla gear was sold privately. JJ (Jan Jurco sp?) bought lots of the tube making equipment from Tesla. That's why a JJ ECC83/E83CC looks like a Tesla E83CC which looks like a Telefunken ECC803 who they bought the equipment from. You look at most JJ tubes and it's done on the same equipment from Tesla.
European Audio Team, Emission Labs, and KR bought most of the other Tesla equipment and they're still making tubes with old Tesla equipment. I think all that Tesla tube making equipment is about 60-80 years old now except the KR stuff is over a century old.
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CDawg
Well-known member
Most my European ECC83s.
7581A power tubes.
Six different Canadian 12AX7 black plate tubes. Canadian Marconi/CGE from Montreal, Quebec and Canadian Westinghouse from Hamilton, Ontario.
PDC
Well-known member
^^^ CDawg!! What a stash of glass you have there!
Is that Black base 'Teslovak' a Dual Halo design? That would explain the Black Base Groove Tube pair I have that definitely does not resemble the typical JJE34LS.
Great info on this thread.
Is that Black base 'Teslovak' a Dual Halo design? That would explain the Black Base Groove Tube pair I have that definitely does not resemble the typical JJE34LS.
Great info on this thread.
Alpha Stryke
Well-known member
SED Winged =C='s
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CDawg
Well-known member
Thank you. I enjoy my tubes.
I just grabbed that Teslovak picture and these Groove Tubes off the internet. I think the Teslovak is a single getter but this Groove Tubes is definitely a double. I had some of those black base GT like this a long time ago. IIRC the GT E34LS was the first run with the double getters but then after they moved to a single getter to cut costs. Same as a Tesla E83CC removes part of the getter for a JJ ECC83S where it goes from a double to a single.
PDC
Well-known member
Very Cool! And yes - your Black Base Dual Halo GTE34LS is exactly like the pair I recently acquired. All the rest of the GTE34LS tubes I have had are single halo and look more like the Teslovak example you posted. Solid tubes - tight low end. But not the same as the Brown Base Dual Halo Teslas which I really like.
