Mesa 4x12: Standard (oversized) vs Traditional

[acalaf]

OK, so I rewired my Marshall cab with Mesa V30s in series parallel. The change is pretty noticeable. It feels like the mids are fuller, the bass deeper and the highs clearer. The change is noticeable enough that I think it is worth doing.

It almost feels like this should be the correct wiring for a cab. It sounds closer to a single 1 by 12. The parallel series wiring seems to subtract frequencies. I’m guessing that Mesa and Marshall chose this type of wiring simply so they could have the stereo option in the cabinets. It doesn’t seem like it was a choice made out of pure tone considerations, but that’s just speculation on my part.

Here’s a picture of the wiring that I used.

 

[Kagami]

In a 2x12 configuration a series wiring will have less damping and sound more lively than a parallel which has more motor control (damping) and will be tighter. How this exactly works into a 4x12 wiring I'm not entirely sure but it would explain the difference between S-P and P-S if it works the same way.

 

[FourT6and2]

In a 2x12 configuration a series wiring will have less damping and sound more lively than a parallel which has more motor control (damping) and will be tighter. How this exactly works into a 4x12 wiring I'm not entirely sure but it would explain the difference between S-P and P-S if it works the same way.

Totally. And what I'm pointing out is that you have to actually rewire the cab from S-P to P-S or vice versa. The issue is that some of these wiring diagrams people are using depict the SAME EXACT wiring for S-P or P-S and simply show a wire moved to a different location, yet still connected to the same point in the circuit. The diagrams are wrong.

If someone actually rewires their cab correctly and changes the circuit, and hears a difference, that's completely within reason.

 

[GJgo]

I'm still waiting for someone to put up a reamped, level matched, A/B blind test where the wiring strategy is swapped without moving the cab or the mic.

 

[acalaf]

I'm still waiting for someone to put up a reamped, level matched, A/B blind test where the wiring strategy is swapped without moving the cab or the mic.

that’s going to be tough. you would have to open the back of the cab, solder the wires, close it back up, while not moving the cab or mic at all. it requires planning ahead and precision. too much work unless you have a monetized you tube channel.

 

[GJgo]

that’s going to be tough. you would have to open the back of the cab, solder the wires, close it back up, while not moving the cab or mic at all. it requires planning ahead and precision. too much work unless you have a monetized you tube channel.

Marshall cabs are all spade connectors, I'd do it there. Piece of cake. Agree soldering on a mesa cab would not be ideal.

I have multiple of all of these & could do it if I was so motivated. Even though my channel isn't cool enough to be monetized. LOL

 

[stephen sawall]

I'm still waiting for someone to put up a reamped, level matched, A/B blind test where the wiring strategy is swapped without moving the cab or the mic.

I think it would need the wire changes done on a switch. The clip would need to be a loop or reamp clip.

There needs to removed all variables other than wire change.

 

[Meeotch]

Seems like that Aiken diagram posted would be the ticket for a good A/B comparison. Surely someone has done this?

I'm wondering if the difference is only heard/felt in the room or if it would actually come across in a recording.

 

[Rackman]

Seems like that Aiken diagram posted would be the ticket for a good A/B comparison. Surely someone has done this?

I'm wondering if the difference is only heard/felt in the room or if it would actually come across in a recording.

Or if there's any difference whatsoever. That has yet to be demonstrated.

 

[Nigel]

OK, so I rewired my Marshall cab with Mesa V30s in series parallel. The change is pretty noticeable. It feels like the mids are fuller, the bass deeper and the highs clearer. The change is noticeable enough that I think it is worth doing.

It almost feels like this should be the correct wiring for a cab. It sounds closer to a single 1 by 12. The parallel series wiring seems to subtract frequencies. I’m guessing that Mesa and Marshall chose this type of wiring simply so they could have the stereo option in the cabinets. It doesn’t seem like it was a choice made out of pure tone considerations, but that’s just speculation on my part.

Here’s a picture of the wiring that I used.

Hallelujah for the brother has seen the light!

 

[Nigel]

I'm still waiting for someone to put up a reamped, level matched, A/B blind test where the wiring strategy is swapped without moving the cab or the mic.

In the immortal words of Terence McKenna, "I believe God has chosen you for this work."

 

[Nigel]

Marshall cabs are all spade connectors, I'd do it there. Piece of cake. Agree soldering on a mesa cab would not be ideal.

I have multiple of all of these & could do it if I was so motivated. Even though my channel isn't cool enough to be monetized. LOL

Exactly as Stephen has suggested: use the Aiken diagram, connect the S/P to P/S wire to a single pole single throw switch, and you can go back and forth on the fly as the amp will always have the proper load.

 

[Nigel]

Marshall cabs are all spade connectors, I'd do it there. Piece of cake. Agree soldering on a mesa cab would not be ideal.

I have multiple of all of these & could do it if I was so motivated. Even though my channel isn't cool enough to be monetized. LOL

Once I did my Mesa cab S/P Aiken style with Marshall Sound Runner 10ga I never felt the need to go back let alone install the switch because the preference is that great. If I get a DR or 5150 and wanna do straight chugga chugga I might put the switch in because then the amp will act more like a singe series 2x12 than two series 2x12's in parallel. Ergo, the dynamics at high volume of P/S may be preferable for heavier, modern low-tuned styles.

 

[FourT6and2]

Once I did my Mesa cab S/P Aiken style with Marshall Sound Runner 10ga I never felt the need to go back let alone install the switch because the preference is that great. If I get a DR or 5150 and wanna do straight chugga chugga I might put the switch in because then the amp will act more like a singe series 2x12 than two series 2x12's in parallel. Ergo, the dynamics at high volume of P/S may be preferable for heavier, modern low-tuned styles.

This Mesa cab I just got sounds so good as is, I can't imagine messing with the wiring to try to improve it. The only thing I can see that might need improvement is they don't use washers on the speaker mounting bolts. Just Nyloc nuts against the speaker frame. The nuts don't make full contact, so washers would be a good idea. But I think all Mesas are like this? Weird. Washers ensure full contact and reduce the possibility of denting/warping the frame.

 

[K-Roll]

Call me weird but i prefer the mesa 2x12 much much more than the OS4x12..its just more imminent and tighter and in your face.. the OS is a weird loose sound....it absolutely hated some of the amps i tried with it making them sound both tubby and brash/piercing at the same time... but... I used to have a traditional 4x12 that was killer..ran it with a mark iVa.. regret selling both to this date.. ehhhh...

 

[GJgo]

This Mesa cab I just got sounds so good as is, I can't imagine messing with the wiring to try to improve it. The only thing I can see that might need improvement is they don't use washers on the speaker mounting bolts. Just Nyloc nuts against the speaker frame. The nuts don't make full contact, so washers would be a good idea. But I think all Mesas are like this? Weird. Washers ensure full contact and reduce the possibility of denting/warping the frame.

They are not all like that, I've seen multiple with & without washers. I usually add them when they're not present.

Also the newer ones apparently lost the sealing strip on the back panel.

 

[GJgo]

Call me weird but i prefer the mesa 2x12 much much more than the OS4x12..its just more imminent and tighter and in your face.. the OS is a weird loose sound....it absolutely hated some of the amps i tried with it making them sound both tubby and brash/piercing at the same time... but... I used to have a traditional 4x12 that was killer..ran it with a mark iVa.. regret selling both to this date.. ehhhh...

Different things- the Mesa Recto 2x12s use 16 ohm speakers- they are all more cutting & in your face with reduced based response. Generally better for low tuned guitars and general mix cutting than the 4x12s.

The 4x12s are all 8 ohm speakers which are smoother. There's a bunch of rabbit hole in these options though.

 

[Tone Monster]

Crazy thought here… I wonder if a 4 x 12 with four radically different sounding V 30s would seem more full sounding or if you lucked out and had four speakers that were very close in frequency response would sound more full sounding?
If they are all radically different sounding, you could get a wider frequency response…

 

[FourT6and2]

They are not all like that, I've seen multiple with & without washers. I usually add them when they're not present.

Also the newer ones apparently lost the sealing strip on the back panel.

I haven't checked the back panel yet, but the handles have gaskets.

 

[Nigel]

Different things- the Mesa Recto 2x12s use 16 ohm speakers- they are all more cutting & in your face with reduced based response. Generally better for low tuned guitars and general mix cutting than the 4x12s.

The 4x12s are all 8 ohm speakers which are smoother. There's a bunch of rabbit hole in these options though.

Exactly, 16 ohms have more top/bottom/punch/sizzle and in parallel they get the 8 ohm tap which has a mid boost.


@K-Roll
The 4x12 is like two 4 ohm speakers in series for 8 ohms when P/S. When series/parallel, it's like two 16 ohm speakers in parallel, and responds much more like the 2x12!