Mesa 4x12: Standard (oversized) vs Traditional

  • Thread starter Thread starter FourT6and2
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No. Not unless something else was changed. Which is why I asked if maybe he was misremembering. He said it was many years ago. But no... moving that wire off the jack and to the speaker changes absolutely nothing. Zero. Nothing. Nada. Zippo. Nil.


That wire is able to handle the signal from the amp no problem.
Understood, but I wasn’t referring to the power handling capacity of the wire. I was just wondering if in the 2 jack wire method, if the first pair of speakers influences or alters the signal in any way before the signal reaches the other pair of speakers vs the signal arriving at all 4 speakers simultaneously with the 4 jack wire method.
 
Understood, but I wasn’t referring to the power handling capacity of the wire. I was just wondering if in the 2 jack wire method, if the first pair of speakers influences or alters the signal in any way before the signal reaches the other pair of speakers vs the signal arriving at all 4 speakers simultaneously with the 4 jack wire method.

Ah, I understand. But also no haha :)

Because it's still parallel wiring, the first pair of speakers and the second pair of speakers both "see" the jack at the same time. Neither pair is "first" or "second". Speaker Pair 1, Speaker Pair 2, and the jack are all essentially at the exact same "point" in the circuit.

But hey... if you're curious, try it both ways and see. Just make sure you're actually wiring it properly. Use a long enough set of wires to reach the jack with the bottom pair. Then simply move those wires to the first pair of speakers. That way you're not adding or removing wire—just moving where they're soldered to.
 
Understood, but I wasn’t referring to the power handling capacity of the wire. I was just wondering if in the 2 jack wire method, if the first pair of speakers influences or alters the signal in any way before the signal reaches the other pair of speakers vs the signal arriving at all 4 speakers simultaneously with the 4 jack wire method.
Kinda what I was aluding to earlier and or if the speaker wire is undersized for handling 4 speakers.
 
No. Not unless something else was changed. Which is why I asked if maybe he was misremembering. He said it was many years ago. But no... moving that wire off the jack and to the speaker changes absolutely nothing. Zero. Nothing. Nada. Zippo. Nil.


That wire is able to handle the signal from the amp no problem.
I tried the two different wirings from the pics from Scumback and I did notice a big change. It could have been that it was hard getting the four 16 gauge stranded wires soldered on the output jack (because it was) but I'm pretty sure my connections were solid. They both had plenty of power and it was a big improvement over the stock stereo jack and thin wire setup.
 
Understood, but I wasn’t referring to the power handling capacity of the wire. I was just wondering if in the 2 jack wire method, if the first pair of speakers influences or alters the signal in any way before the signal reaches the other pair of speakers vs the signal arriving at all 4 speakers simultaneously with the 4 jack wire method.
I think what happened here is because there are different wirings that look very similar. So when the scumback guy did his test with Dave at that time they did use two different circuits that gave a small difference in tone. One of them having two wires coming from the jack and the other having four. However the diagrams Scumback posted are most likely not what they used , at least one of them Is not. I would bet money on that , is there a tiny chance I’m wrong, sure. I’m always humble enough to say “hey I could be wrong” but another red flag to me is the unwillingness from the scumback guy to say something similar. Everyone makes mistakes.

Since I wasn’t there that day I can’t know for sure what they did. So if somehow they used those two diagrams and heard a difference then ok , wow. The only thing I could possibly think is happening is that by using the four wires at the jack you have created a branch circuit for each pair , therefore the full load of the circuit does not travel through every speaker. To hear a difference , I don’t know that’s a stretch. I think what I suggested above is much more likely.
 
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Ok, my last post on this thread. Let's not forget that Dave & Roy build amps and wire cabinets. What's being suggested is that somehow/some way Dave, Roy & I didn't get the two wiring schemes right. But we did.

In post 185, jchrisf just said he tried both wiring setups and noticed a big difference using my wiring diagram.
Quote: "I tried the two different wirings from the pics from Scumback and I did notice a big change. It could have been that it was hard getting the four 16 gauge stranded wires soldered on the output jack (because it was) but I'm pretty sure my connections were solid. They both had plenty of power and it was a big improvement over the stock stereo jack and thin wire setup."

So there you have it. Someone tried my idea and noticed a big change. Thanks @jchrisf !
 
Ok, my last post on this thread. Let's not forget that Dave & Roy build amps and wire cabinets. What's being suggested is that somehow/some way Dave, Roy & I didn't get the two wiring schemes right. But we did.

In post 185, jchrisf just said he tried both wiring setups and noticed a big difference using my wiring diagram.
Quote: "I tried the two different wirings from the pics from Scumback and I did notice a big change. It could have been that it was hard getting the four 16 gauge stranded wires soldered on the output jack (because it was) but I'm pretty sure my connections were solid. They both had plenty of power and it was a big improvement over the stock stereo jack and thin wire setup."

So there you have it. Someone tried my idea and noticed a big change. Thanks @jchrisf !
Jim,

That’s because he went from stock parallel series with a switch plate and tiny wire to series-parallel with decent wire.

Both of your diagrams are series/parallel aka parallel at the jack.
 
I tried the two different wirings from the pics from Scumback and I did notice a big change. It could have been that it was hard getting the four 16 gauge stranded wires soldered on the output jack (because it was) but I'm pretty sure my connections were solid. They both had plenty of power and it was a big improvement over the stock stereo jack and thin wire setup.
You mentioned a "stock stereo jack" . Did you change from a stereo setup with left and right input jacks or change to a different type of mono jack? You also mentioned changing wire size ? It's hard to know what is producing the perceived difference in sound if you change several things at the same time.
 
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I got my ‘03 OS slant for $400 during the Covid war against humanity with a new slipcover. I consider it a gift from God.
That's a pretty good deal ! I f*****g love my old OS slant cab. It's from '96. Been using it recently to test various power amps and it really delivers the goods IMHO ! I'm thinking hard about a slant/straight to go with it and make a nice looking/sounding full stack.
 
I tried the two different wirings from the pics from Scumback and I did notice a big change. It could have been that it was hard getting the four 16 gauge stranded wires soldered on the output jack (because it was) but I'm pretty sure my connections were solid. They both had plenty of power and it was a big improvement over the stock stereo jack and thin wire setup.

Can we have more details about what we're talking about?

How was the cab wired before?
You then rewired it to the first diagram on Scumback's page?
You then rewired it to second diagram on Scumback's page?

Go back to post 172. Which wiring schemes are you talking about?

I'm about over this whole conversation though haha. I'm not trying to discount anybody's experience in a hostile way, but it's like a home owner telling an electrician they moved an outlet from one wall to the other wall, without actually changing how anything was wired, and now their TV's colors are move vivid. But look, if you're happy with what you're hearing, awesome—I'm truly happy for you.
 
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Can we have more details about what we're talking about?

How was the cab wired before?
You then rewired it to the first diagram on Scumback's page?
You then rewired it to second diagram on Scumback's page?

Go back to post 172. Which wiring schemes are you talking about?

I'm about over this whole conversation though haha. I'm not trying to discount anybody's experience in a hostile way, but it's like a home owner telling an electrician they moved an outlet from one wall to the other wall, without actually changing how anything was wired, and now their TV's colors are move vivid. But look, if you're happy with what you're hearing, awesome—I'm truly happy for you.
 
You mentioned a "stock stereo jack" . Did you change from a stereo setup with left and right input jacks or change to a different type of mono jack? You also mentioned changing wire size ? It's hard to know what is producing the perceived difference in sound if you change several things at the same time.
I put a mono jack in with new wire and tried both of the wiring diagrams on Scumbacks site for 4x12s
 
Great thread! I finally understand the wiring difference. will try series/parallel on a slant marshall with mesa v30s soon and report back. It has the stock mesa wiring now.
 
Great thread! I finally understand the wiring difference. will try series/parallel on a slant marshall with mesa v30s soon and report back. It has the stock mesa wiring now.
I think you'll love it! Use the Aiken diagram and you can wire up a single pole, single throw switch to add in one wire and go from S/P to P/S on the fly, like a Rock/Metal or Vintage/Modern switch or something. Or if not, you can easily go back to P/S with that one wire.
SpeakerWiring.jpg
 
Great thread! I finally understand the wiring difference. will try series/parallel on a slant marshall with mesa v30s soon and report back. It has the stock mesa wiring now.

Wait, your Marshall cab has Pre-Gibson wiring?
 

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