FourT6and2
Well-known member
They are EXACTLY THE SAME. You are dead wrong. The connection at the jack and the connection at the speaker solder tab are the EXACT. SAME. POINT. Put down the egg nog.
311boogieman
Well-known member
That was one thing I was thinking of but I'm not an EE. What about the ohm load issue @harddriver was bringing up? Sorry to be the noob in the group
the4thlast1
Well-known member
They are the same. I have explained why they are the same. Can you explain why you think they are different? I would agree there are different locations of contact where the wires meet to form the circuit but it is the same circuit, functionally not different.
the4thlast1
Well-known member
Resistance can be effected by longer wire runs but that’s when we are considering hundreds of feet not the small lengths inside a cab. A splice or point of contact can also increase resistance but if it’s a good connection it’s not an issue. Any of these diagrams that have been posted so far would be fine to use as long as the connections are done well.That was one thing I was thinking of but I'm not an EE. What about the ohm load issue @harddriver was bringing up? Sorry to be the noob in the group
ZEEGLER
Well-known member
They are functionally and electrically identical. If you don't understand that then you don't understand the very basics of wiring
Scumback Speakers
Well-known member
No, I posted links/pics earlier from my site. Here they are again.
https://www.scumbackspeakers.com/wire.html
the4thlast1
Well-known member
Thank you for posting that. Those two 4x12 diagrams are of the same circuit. The only difference is where two wires make contact but both are electrically identical.
Every connection of positive and negatives are the same. If someone were to draw a schematic line circuit diagram of both they would look exactly the same. You are only seeing a difference in the cab because you went from point A to point B using more wire.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
You are 100% correct.
They're the same. Both are two sets of series speakers, paralleled at the jack. I've been trying to point this out for the entire thread but whatareyagonnado
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jchrisf
Well-known member
So what really are the different ways to wire a 4x12?You are 100% correct.
They're the same. Both are two sets of series speakers, paralleled at the jack. I've been trying to point this out for the entire thread but whatareyagonnado
N
Nigel
Well-known member
Aiken diagram is the most efficient. Add one wire and it goes from s/p to p/s. Only two wires on the jack is way easier too.
If you have a 2 ohm transformer like a Fender Super Reverb you can go all parallel with 8 ohm speakers. Marshall’s come with a 4 ohm parallel mode on the switch plate since they have 16 ohm speakers.
So you’ve got two series pairs on parallel at the jack, two parallel pairs in series at the jack, or all parallel.
One could get a wild hair and wire two 4x12’s all series with 8 ohm speakers and run them parallel for 16 ohms. Not sure how it would sound.
the4thlast1
Well-known member
There are several ways that you can physically run the wires. However there are only two circuits Series/Parallel or Parallel/Series. Reference picture below: This was posted earlier. It’s a good example of the two different circuits.
Notice how the example on the left has esch speaker within a pair connecting to eachother by going from positive to positive and negative to negative (parallel) . The example on the right has the speakers within each pair connecting by going from positive to negative (Series).
For each one of these there are also a few variations of how you can physically run the wires from point A to point B. Which could be perceived as something “different” even though it’s not, like in the case of the scumback speaker diagrams.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
- Every speaker in series
- Every speaker in parallel
- Two speakers in series, another two speakers in series, then parallel the pairs at the jack (regardless of 2 or 4 wires physically on the jack)
- Two speakers in series at the jack, then another speaker in parallel with each of those.
GJgo
Well-known member
I did some wiring testing many years ago & it was very un-scientific. I seemed to experience a "difference", but in hindsight as with so many things I tried in those days without reamping & level matching there's really no way to say for sure since memories & opinions are colored. I know now that opinions without doing this are next to useless.
I've also owned every Recto cab variation multiple times over and not sure how this thread got to 9 pages..? It's pretty simple.
Traditional aka Stiletto. Best for rhythms. Tighter with more mids.
Standard aka oversize. Best for Cleans & leads. Looser / boomy with more scoop. They do tend to play more well with Rectifiers & Coliseums- the horsepower can fill them out in a way that lesser wattage can't.
Straights are my personal choice UNLESS I'm playing a gig where the cab isn't mic'd. Then they suck.
AND.. here's the issue which is probably why the page count is so high on this topic. No 2 cabs sound exactly the same. I've even had the exact same model made days apart & they sound different. Some are better than others, and there's a lot of personal preference involved, so start buying & see what speaks to you. That said, I personally stay away from the ~2005-2019 ish ones. AAAAND, matching an amp to a cab is huge. For example my Mark IVs love Mesa Recto cabs & hate pretty much everything else, where a IIC+ can make pretty much any cab sound good. Individual pieces of gear aren't good or bad, that can only apply to the setup as a whole.
4 ohm mono wiring- 2:31
8 ohm stereo wiring- 4:56
16 ohm mono parallel series- 7:00
16 ohm mono series parallel- 9:15
Thoughts 10:59
I've also owned every Recto cab variation multiple times over and not sure how this thread got to 9 pages..? It's pretty simple.
Traditional aka Stiletto. Best for rhythms. Tighter with more mids.
Standard aka oversize. Best for Cleans & leads. Looser / boomy with more scoop. They do tend to play more well with Rectifiers & Coliseums- the horsepower can fill them out in a way that lesser wattage can't.
Straights are my personal choice UNLESS I'm playing a gig where the cab isn't mic'd. Then they suck.
AND.. here's the issue which is probably why the page count is so high on this topic. No 2 cabs sound exactly the same. I've even had the exact same model made days apart & they sound different. Some are better than others, and there's a lot of personal preference involved, so start buying & see what speaks to you. That said, I personally stay away from the ~2005-2019 ish ones. AAAAND, matching an amp to a cab is huge. For example my Mark IVs love Mesa Recto cabs & hate pretty much everything else, where a IIC+ can make pretty much any cab sound good. Individual pieces of gear aren't good or bad, that can only apply to the setup as a whole.
4 ohm mono wiring- 2:31
8 ohm stereo wiring- 4:56
16 ohm mono parallel series- 7:00
16 ohm mono series parallel- 9:15
Thoughts 10:59
anomaly
Well-known member
interesting, my Mark IV loves my Avatar vintage cab the most. It doesn't get along with my recto cab quite as much.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
It's not the cab, it's the speakers. Celestions are all over the place. Grab any four speakers—let's say four Mesa V30s purchased together—and they will all sound slightly different. Doubly so for speakers from different time periods. "The Other John Browne" did an extensive video about this where he tested a ton of V30s back to back, including frequency response graphs.
GJgo
Well-known member
I should probably correct that to say my IVs love V30s, and (for my uses) really don't like anything else.
stephen sawall
SEMI ERECT MEMBER
I agree the speakers differences is probably the biggest factor. But the cabs themselves also sound very different. I was surprised how much when switching out speakers how different they sounded.
N
Nigel
Well-known member
@raiken
Agreed. My ‘03 OS slant has the best clean I’ve ever heard, especially with the new s/p wiring, foam and 10 ga Marshall Soundrunner. With a 100 watt Ugly Amps Big Ugly and KT77’s the thing was gigantic sounding, Godly even. So fat, extended bottom that felt like a force of nature rather than a guitar rig. This was playing single note riffs like 311 with a Boss OC-2. Just fucking MASSIVE!
Agreed. My ‘03 OS slant has the best clean I’ve ever heard, especially with the new s/p wiring, foam and 10 ga Marshall Soundrunner. With a 100 watt Ugly Amps Big Ugly and KT77’s the thing was gigantic sounding, Godly even. So fat, extended bottom that felt like a force of nature rather than a guitar rig. This was playing single note riffs like 311 with a Boss OC-2. Just fucking MASSIVE!
thegame
Well-known member
Could it be that although these are the same circuit essentially, that something still unaccounted for is responsible for the difference in tone and response between the two? Eg. the full brunt of the signal traveling over two wires before it reaches the first pair of speakers, which possibly act as some kind of filter/load/mojo generator before the signal path “sees” the other pair? Then the other way with 4 wires off the jack, the signal hits all 4 speakers simultaneously with less influence from each other?
FourT6and2
Well-known member
No. Not unless something else was changed. Which is why I asked if maybe he was misremembering. He said it was many years ago. But no... moving that wire off the jack and to the speaker changes absolutely nothing. Zero. Nothing. Nada. Zippo. Nil.
That wire is able to handle the signal from the amp no problem.
