Metro 68 Plexi series 12 vid

[Juggernaut]

I want Dinos Demanufacture tone, or Gary Holts tone from his Langner Modded Marshall.....




so there!

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

Lynch's "Under Lock and Key" tone.

 

[Meathead]

Pass the same guitar back and forth with a friend and don't change a thing.
Tone is in the hands to a large extent.
Even funnier are guys who have a Metro Amp....have a net hack fuck it up with shit mods.....and still think they own a Metro Amp.

Nothing a Metro will do no decent Marshall or clone will do.
They are recieving attention because grown men hope to attain a certain tone they wouldn't know what to do with even once they attain it.

I've tried this and it was really like the gain/EQ settings were changed...the differences can be that big just from your playing style.
I know compared to others, I can get a gainy sound with not much gain dialed in on an amp....I play heavy, and really low action on a guitar doesn't work with me...clang clang clang.

Eddie really dug in on the old stuff...light touch guys may have a harder time capturing that sound/feel.

 

[Gainfreak]

Pass the same guitar back and forth with a friend and don't change a thing.
Tone is in the hands to a large extent.
Even funnier are guys who have a Metro Amp....have a net hack fuck it up with shit mods.....and still think they own a Metro Amp.

Nothing a Metro will do no decent Marshall or clone will do.
They are recieving attention because grown men hope to attain a certain tone they wouldn't know what to do with even once they attain it.

I've tried this and it was really like the gain/EQ settings were changed...the differences can be that big just from your playing style.
I know compared to others, I can get a gainy sound with not much gain dialed in on an amp....I play heavy, and really low action on a guitar doesn't work with me...clang clang clang.

Well that's because there is truth to it but its still going to sound like a Marshall. Now can you make a Marshall sound like a scooped boogie with 4 + gain stages and EQ just with your fingers? Of course you can't because gear matters just as much.

 

[Zachman]

Has anyone bothered to just flat out call Don or Ted and ask them

Just got off the phone, they said he was really using this because he was lazy and it was easier to carry. They did acknowledge that the tone was in his fingers though.

Seriously though, it all counts- Yes, gear too. The guys arguing that tone is in the fingers some of them anyway have some very useless expensive choices in amps, cabs speakers etc... IF tone is in the fingers, which it isn't. Technique will allow one to coax nuances out of gear, but alas- the gear really does matter

 

[Meathead]

Pass the same guitar back and forth with a friend and don't change a thing.
Tone is in the hands to a large extent.
.

I've tried this and it was really like the gain/EQ settings were changed...the differences can be that big just from your playing style.
I know compared to others, I can get a gainy sound with not much gain dialed in on an amp....I play heavy, and really low action on a guitar doesn't work with me...clang clang clang.

Well that's because there is truth to it but its still going to sound like a Marshall. Now can you make a Marshall sound like a scooped boogie with 4 + gain stages and EQ just with your fingers? Of course you can't because gear matters just as much.

I'm glad you can see what I'm saying...I know the amp has a sound too (of course)
I could have a 2203, Mark IV, Soldano, etc....and if I dialed them all in for how I liked, and used the same cab and mic....I bet it would be very hard to tell the difference from them all and pick which amp is which. Because I would dial them all in very similar (for gain and EQ) and my playing style/feel would sound too much alike between them. There would be a difference, but it wouldn't be huge.
But if I passed the same guitar around between 4 people you would notice a difference...and it would be very noticeable that something is changing the sound. You can't deny the player adds so much to his tone....to me it's number 1, which amp he's using number 2.

I don't want to argue...it won't change my mind.

 

[Gainfreak]

Well that's because there is truth to it but its still going to sound like a Marshall. Now can you make a Marshall sound like a scooped boogie with 4 + gain stages and EQ just with your fingers? Of course you can't because gear matters just as much.

I'm glad you can see what I'm saying...I know the amp has a sound too (of course)
I could have a 2203, Mark IV, Soldano, etc....and if I dialed them all in for how I liked, and used the same cab and mic....I bet it would be very hard to tell the difference from them all and pick which amp is which. Because I would dial them all in very similar (for gain and EQ) and my playing style/feel would sound too much alike between them. There would be a difference, but it wouldn't be huge.
But if I passed the same guitar around between 4 people you would notice a difference...and it would be very noticeable that something is changing the sound. You can't deny the player adds so much to his tone....to me it's number 1, which amp he's using number 2.

I don't want to argue...it won't change my mind. [/quote]

I wont argue because its true. Im just saying the the amp matters whereas some people say thats not so.

 

[Meathead]

I wont argue because its true. Im just saying the the amp matters whereas some people say thats not so.

I guess that's why I've never been a guy that buys and sells amps, searching for my tone which I think is eluding me.
I know with what I have (amp on it's own or with the right pedals) I just need to 'bring it'.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

The fingers obviously change dynamics and pick attack etc...
The amp makes a huge difference in "TONE" - the rest is technique that one player could copy from the other player while sitting in the room. I've done it many times with my cousin. He's played a lick and handed the guitar to me, I may play the lick a little differently but I can copy what he does and even get his technique down if I choose!
The TONE is still a Fender Super or a Bogner or whatever.
You can't change that!

Why does Ford use Dumbles?
Why does Iced Earth demand Larry Amplification?

WHY THE HELL DOES JOE PERRY HAVE HALF A DOZEN DIFFERENT AMPS ON STAGE?



Pretty simple.

 

[Meathead]

The fingers obviously change dynamics and pick attack etc...
The amp makes a huge difference in "TONE" - the rest is technique that one player could copy from the other player while sitting in the room. I've done it many times with my cousin. He's played a lick and handed the guitar to me, I may play the lick a little differently but I can copy what he does and even get his technique down if I choose!
The TONE is still a Fender Super or a Bogner or whatever.
You can't change that!

Why does Ford use Dumbles?
Why does Iced Earth demand Larry Amplification?

WHY THE HELL DOES JOE PERRY HAVE HALF A DOZEN DIFFERENT AMPS ON STAGE?



Pretty simple.

Why doesn't Perry have a brown sound when he was using old Marshalls?
Eddie could have walked up to Perry's Marshall, plugged in, dialed it in a bit and sounded like him...I do believe that.

 

[degenaro]

Has anyone bothered to just flat out call Don or Ted and ask them

Just got off the phone, they said he was really using this because he was lazy and it was easier to carry. They did acknowledge that the tone was in his fingers though.


Seriously though, it all counts- Yes, gear too. The guys arguing that tone is in the fingers some of them anyway have some very useless expensive choices in amps, cabs speakers etc... IF tone is in the fingers, which it isn't. Technique will allow one to coax nuances out of gear, but alas- the gear really does matter

I love this reduction. No it isn't useless. Simply because all the amps feel and respond differently. Do me a favor disagree all you want with me, but don't assume you have clue one why I do anything.
As for the earlier Flanger remark. It's an effect, doesn't have to do jack shit with tone does it now.

As for Raplph's scooped Mesa statement, why does my T-verb sound the same as a JMP then?
Lets leave the graphic eq out of the equation, and then I'm going to have once again the same base tone.
I hate big ass posts but I reckon I have no choice. Read on...

I envision a sort of feed back loop…you have a musical idea in your mind, and if you practice enough you don’t really need to think about what you’re doing anymore – your fingers can pretty much do what your brain is thinking. But if the contour of the neck on your guitar isn’t right for you – if the contour of the body isn’t right, if the finish feels tacky and your arm is sticking to it, if the pickups don’t respond dynamically the way you want them to, if the cord you’re using to the amp is
crappy, or if it’s too good, if your speakers are harsh, or just wrong, if the tube sockets are dirty, if the pots are bad…if anything in that loop that comes back to your ear is not right, then you don’t play as well because of it. My goal isn’t just tone – my goal is to be able to express what I'm feeling and what I'm playing as well as I possibly can. Tone is an integral and critically important component in expressing yourself musically. I see it as a means to an end, and not as an end in itself. And a lot of what I’m talking about are things that the listener may not even notice. It’s related to what I like to refer to as feel. You may not think you hear a difference – except that now, you’re playing better. Dynamically, you lose a lot because the amp isn’t hearing all of the subtle things you can do with pick attack, for example. I don’t think anything sounds as wonderful as a good guitar through a good guitar cord and a good amp. And it doesn’t have to be a 100W
Marshall – go get yourself a Maestro GA2 or even a Gibsonette is a cool little amp –6V6’s, but they’re not push/pull, they’re parallel – a very unusual design but a great sounding little amp.

As for modders and EVH JMP...the guy that should know best is Friedman since his smallbox has the small values EVHs has, which are off from the regular JMP specs. Just about every amp builder has been in that amp...
That's why Perry's JMP sounds nothing like EVH's JMP well, that and Perry playing through it.

 

[degenaro]

Pass the same guitar back and forth with a friend and don't change a thing.
Tone is in the hands to a large extent.
Even funnier are guys who have a Metro Amp....have a net hack fuck it up with shit mods.....and still think they own a Metro Amp.

Nothing a Metro will do no decent Marshall or clone will do.
They are recieving attention because grown men hope to attain a certain tone they wouldn't know what to do with even once they attain it.

I've tried this and it was really like the gain/EQ settings were changed...the differences can be that big just from your playing style.
I know compared to others, I can get a gainy sound with not much gain dialed in on an amp....I play heavy, and really low action on a guitar doesn't work with me...clang clang clang.

Eddie really dug in on the old stuff...light touch guys may have a harder time capturing that sound/feel.

Good point, here's my question. EVH is using really light picks. How does that relate to heavuy attack?

 

[mentoneman]

sometimes tone is so good you don't just appreciate it, you wish to aquire it and try to reproduce it or at least a reasonable facimile as a target core tone which to build from. and in the grand scheme of things it's a hobby.

i don't find slash or ace frehley or vivian campbell marshall rock tone desireable, but i think eddie's marshall tone is perfect.


yngwie and gary moore have great marshall tones and are killer players, but i'm not interested in reproducing their sound like i am eddie's sound.

sometimes an instrument's tone can be so good it becomes a standard, like a stratovarius violin or a bach trumpet or a steinway piano "tone". in our case it's a very complicated instrument with lots of variables. guitar, pickup, amp, speakers, tubes, effects....elusive.

and personally i couldn't begin to try to learn how to play like VH or holdsworth lines, which i like to ***try*** to do, unless my tone and guitar's response came close to matching what i envision in my mind to be how their gear performs for them. which is why all along i've said the peacemaker straight in wasn't doing the lead response i desire, therefore used pedals to get the touch i need.

the thing i find interesting is once the tone pursuit is accomplished, then what?
ralle did some clips of original songs he played with his amp, and i was not as impressed by his tone in that context.

i have yet to hear vic or rockstah perform original material, or anyone in the brown tone chase for that matter, play an original composition using vh tones and make it hit me like VH did..."wow listen to that ripping playing AND tone.."

mark, curt, and steve have cool tunes using their peacemakers, and are great players, and are all doing their own tones with them. zach gets amazing sounds from his. it's an inspiring tone.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

The fingers obviously change dynamics and pick attack etc...
The amp makes a huge difference in "TONE" - the rest is technique that one player could copy from the other player while sitting in the room. I've done it many times with my cousin. He's played a lick and handed the guitar to me, I may play the lick a little differently but I can copy what he does and even get his technique down if I choose!
The TONE is still a Fender Super or a Bogner or whatever.
You can't change that!

Why does Ford use Dumbles?
Why does Iced Earth demand Larry Amplification?

WHY THE HELL DOES JOE PERRY HAVE HALF A DOZEN DIFFERENT AMPS ON STAGE?



Pretty simple.

Why doesn't Perry have a brown sound when he was using old Marshalls?
Eddie could have walked up to Perry's Marshall, plugged in, dialed it in a bit and sounded like him...I do believe that.

hehehehe... This could go on forever, Bro!!
One question, Do you think EVH sounds the same with a 5150 as he does with his old Marshalls?
I personally do not.
Plus... if Joe Perry sounds like Joe Perry, why not just one amp on stage? After all, the tone's in his fingers right?

Like I said, I find this interesting and understand BOTH sides/angles we're coming from, but I do believe the amp has a key roll in the tone destiny of a recording or a live gig.
Technique is another complete subject. Too many people get these confused...

Keith

 

[Meathead]

Pass the same guitar back and forth with a friend and don't change a thing.
Tone is in the hands to a large extent.
Even funnier are guys who have a Metro Amp....have a net hack fuck it up with shit mods.....and still think they own a Metro Amp.

Nothing a Metro will do no decent Marshall or clone will do.
They are recieving attention because grown men hope to attain a certain tone they wouldn't know what to do with even once they attain it.

I've tried this and it was really like the gain/EQ settings were changed...the differences can be that big just from your playing style.
I know compared to others, I can get a gainy sound with not much gain dialed in on an amp....I play heavy, and really low action on a guitar doesn't work with me...clang clang clang.

Eddie really dug in on the old stuff...light touch guys may have a harder time capturing that sound/feel.

Good point, here's my question. EVH is using really light picks. How does that relate to heavuy attack?

I used to like the extremely fat Dunlop jazz picks, thinking well I dig in, so I better use these monster picks that are really hard.
Even though I dig in pretty hard still, I recently started liking the sound and feel of medium to light picks (just this year), so that doesn't really surprise me. They wear out pretty fast though. I understand why he had a dozen of them stuck on his guitar...it wasn't just for show.

 

[ratter]

His heavy attack is just as much about the left hand as the right, if not moreso, IMO.

 

[degenaro]

I used to like the extremely fat Dunlop jazz picks, thinking well I dig in, so I better use these monster picks that are really hard.
Even though I dig in pretty hard still, I recently started liking the sound and feel of medium to light picks (just this year), so that doesn't really surprise me. They wear out pretty fast though.

Now this is finally getting interesting. I always thought that the guys with the ligt touch sounded way better. I' a fucking lumberjack, and for the longest time i drove me up the wall. Like playing a vibroverb, or even worse a Dumble style amp the thing would just konk out under heavy attack.

 

[Greazygeo]

hehehehe... This could go on forever, Bro!!
One question, Do you think EVH sounds the same with a 5150 as he does with his old Marshalls?
I personally do not.
Plus... if Joe Perry sounds like Joe Perry, why not just one amp on stage? After all, the tone's in his fingers right?

Like I said, I find this interesting and understand BOTH sides/angles we're coming from, but I do believe the amp has a key roll in the tone destiny of a recording or a live gig.
Technique is another complete subject. Too many people get these confused...

Keith

Perry probably uses amps for different things. Something for the talk box, clean, dirty etc...I don't think he ever used much in the way of channel switchers did he?

 

[Meathead]

I used to like the extremely fat Dunlop jazz picks, thinking well I dig in, so I better use these monster picks that are really hard.
Even though I dig in pretty hard still, I recently started liking the sound and feel of medium to light picks (just this year), so that doesn't really surprise me. They wear out pretty fast though.

Now this is finally getting interesting. I always thought that the guys with the ligt touch sounded way better. I' a fucking lumberjack, and for the longest time i drove me up the wall. Like playing a vibroverb, or even worse a Dumble style amp the thing would just konk out under heavy attack.

Landau, Beck, EVH...I think they all dig in nice...I love that.
Vai is a light player me thinks, and it leaves me feeling a bit 'meh' about his overall sound and feel.

Added (if this makes sense Some guys can really shred and have their technique down to do it, but it usually involves this feather touch...so to me everything the guy's playing, hits me like a feather.
Guys that dig in and hits notes like they mean it, as a listener I just nod my head and think 'yep, he means it' and it speaks to me a lot more.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

hehehehe... This could go on forever, Bro!!
One question, Do you think EVH sounds the same with a 5150 as he does with his old Marshalls?
I personally do not.
Plus... if Joe Perry sounds like Joe Perry, why not just one amp on stage? After all, the tone's in his fingers right?

Like I said, I find this interesting and understand BOTH sides/angles we're coming from, but I do believe the amp has a key roll in the tone destiny of a recording or a live gig.
Technique is another complete subject. Too many people get these confused...

Keith

Perry probably uses amps for different things. Something for the talk box, clean, dirty etc...I don't think he ever used much in the way of channel switchers did he?

I don't think so, George.
He always has had a few amps up there that I've seen... quite a few.

Does he still use the Wizards??
Keith