Metro 68 Plexi series 12 vid

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Chubtone":c41cd said:
Gainfreak":c41cd said:
mentoneman":c41cd said:
the difference being, i've seen vic take a cable from his guitar and plug in to the peacemaker and get REALLY amazing brown sounds, for myself, in the room, with no mics or studio magic.
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yes but the million dollar question is..... could Vic plug into your Old Peacemaker and get amazing brown sounds? I've not heard one other guy who owns a peacemaker get the tones that Vic does on his!!! :rock:
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After 4 years with my Peacemaker, I have to agree with Ralph. sah5150 just had his Peacemaker modified to Rockstah specs so I'd say his answer is no too. billybogner is about as monster of a player as they come and even he can't get EVH out of his PM. Another PM owner who shall remain nameless spent time at the Plexi Palace with his own great sounding guitar and the prototype Peacemaker. He said it was an amazing brown sound but when he got his Peacemaker, he has been trying to recapture that sound ever since. His guitar he said easily matched up with Vic's "magic" brown strat when he and Vic switched playing time.

I know when I picked up my '70 Super Trem from Plexi Palace after Craig and Vic brought it back to life I was thrilled with it when I was demoing it in the room. Then Vic had me try the Peacemaker prototype. My '70 Super Trem got it's butt kicked, big time. I ordered a Peacemaker, it was obvious, I had to. However, my personal Peacemaker is no better, no worse than my '70 Super Trem. I've given it 4 years and countless pickups, guitars, speakers, tubes etc. I'm really ready to give up and just go Metro.

Vic is a great guy. I have had nothing but straight up business deals and excellent customer service from him. Pat (mentoneman) is an excellent, loyal friend and customer of Mojave. I think they're both great guys but bottom line, I can 't get my Peacemaker to sound like the clips sound. Period.
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Extremely Well said and I agree 100000000000%.

I like Vic... a lot actually. He treated me like Gold when I met him at NAMM and I have nothing but great things to say about him even though others might have had a different opinion of him (which doesn't matter to me at all because he was great to me)
Everone should also know how much I love Pat so there should be no need to mention that even though Im going to!! :)
WIth that said, had more people been able to get the tone from the peacemaker that I heard Vic get ib the Video that Brother Pat made , I would already own one.

This is also not a Metro Vs. Mojave thing either. Its just that IMHO, I have heard more consistent clips comming from the Metro guys then the Guys who own a Peacemaker which is why I went the Metro route. Im not there 100% tonewise with the metro but I can guarantee you that I will be soon with a little help ;)
 
Chubtone":4bb27 said:
Gainfreak":4bb27 said:
mentoneman":4bb27 said:
the difference being, i've seen vic take a cable from his guitar and plug in to the peacemaker and get REALLY amazing brown sounds, for myself, in the room, with no mics or studio magic.
Click to expand...

yes but the million dollar question is..... could Vic plug into your Old Peacemaker and get amazing brown sounds? I've not heard one other guy who owns a peacemaker get the tones that Vic does on his!!! :rock:
Click to expand...

After 4 years with my Peacemaker, I have to agree with Ralph. sah5150 just had his Peacemaker modified to Rockstah specs so I'd say his answer is no too. billybogner is about as monster of a player as they come and even he can't get EVH out of his PM. Another PM owner who shall remain nameless spent time at the Plexi Palace with his own great sounding guitar and the prototype Peacemaker. He said it was an amazing brown sound but when he got his Peacemaker, he has been trying to recapture that sound ever since. His guitar he said easily matched up with Vic's "magic" brown strat when he and Vic switched playing time.

I know when I picked up my '70 Super Trem from Plexi Palace after Craig and Vic brought it back to life I was thrilled with it when I was demoing it in the room. Then Vic had me try the Peacemaker prototype. My '70 Super Trem got it's butt kicked, big time. I ordered a Peacemaker, it was obvious, I had to. However, my personal Peacemaker is no better, no worse than my '70 Super Trem. I've given it 4 years and countless pickups, guitars, speakers, tubes etc. I'm really ready to give up and just go Metro.

Vic is a great guy. I have had nothing but straight up business deals and excellent customer service from him. Pat (mentoneman) is an excellent, loyal friend and customer of Mojave. I think they're both great guys but bottom line, I can 't get my Peacemaker to sound like the clips sound. Period.
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Yup... I'll also add that when I played my old Kramer through Vic's prototype, it sounded just like the clip Pat posted of Vic. The bottom line is that Vic's "magic" brown strat is not a factor - my Kramer sounded as good or better through Vic's prototype. Through my personal PeaceMaker, I cannot get the same sound I heard from Vic's prototype. Leadwise - there has never been enough fire in the amp to cover the VH legato stuff... either in Vic's prototype or my amp.

Vic is a great guy and has treated me great over the years, however, I'm not gonna apologize for my comments since I've sold a ton of amps for him based on my posted clips. I still get emails from guys telling me that they bought a PeaceMaker based on my clips. The interesting thing is most of them are contacting me to ask what the hell I did to get the sound in my clips 'cause they aren't getting what they expected out of the PM. Most of them end up selling the amps and they tell me that in emails...

All this said, I really like my PeaceMaker now because I can get good tones at a lower volume. The combination of two masters allows me to dial a nice tone that I couldn't get with a HotPlate at -16DB...

Steve
 
That's good Marshall tone right there. A little ratty, a little loose in the bass. Just like it should be.
 
Gainfreak":2cf19 said:
yes but the million dollar question is..... :
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About the "X" on the left boob of the chick in your avatar....is that where you're supposed to aim?

Mojave's I've owned: Peacemaker, Scorpion, Coyote.
Mojave's I currently own: None.

Great amps - the Peacemaker is a great candidate for a Cameron Tweak. Still think I would go Metro if going back that direction.

Mentoneman gets the killer tones out of his Coyote....

Steve E
 
I had a Peacemaker at my house for several months that belonged to my friend and I never bonded with the amp at all. The owner didn't like it either, which is why he brought it to me to try out for a while. We both thought there must be something wrong with it because it didn't sound at all like the clips, nor did it sound anywhere near as good as our real vintage Marshalls. Maybe it really was a bad example?

But since then I've heard/read that many other PM owners had varying experiences similar to ours. :confused:
 
Gainfreak":ddd2e said:
mentoneman":ddd2e said:
the difference being, i've seen vic take a cable from his guitar and plug in to the peacemaker and get REALLY amazing brown sounds, for myself, in the room, with no mics or studio magic.
Click to expand...

yes but the million dollar question is..... could Vic plug into your Old Peacemaker and get amazing brown sounds? I've not heard one other guy who owns a peacemaker get the tones that Vic does on his!!! :rock:
Click to expand...

my very gifted tone bro brah!

the answer to your first question is YES! which honestly made it very confusing for me as well as the other peacemaker owners chiming in here. but the reality is i've talked to vic while at his shop about this very topic, describing my frustration with my guitar tone/touch after he plays with his guitar through my cable/amp/cab and gets that sound and response!

and it is why he was trying to reproduce his brown strat...for us mojave owners. we talked about the mahogany and neck through construction...about how the holmes 455 pickup sounded, and the effect the original floyd rose might have...even the mighty vic was baffled by the difference his guitars made, but in the end i just chalked it up to vic having a special symmetry with the gtr/amp, and tried not to get caught up in what i didn't have, and concentrated on what i could do with my gear.

the thing that really nailed it home for me was when one of his customers happened to be in the shop while i was there, and vic had just finished restoring the guy's marshall head. the guy plugs in to check it out and it is the tone you've heard a billion times from joe blow playing a normal old marshall loud with relatively low gain. the guy starts talking modding this or that, and vic very diplomatically suggests that what may be needed is different pickups or guitar wood.

as the guy begins to disagree, vic looks at me, then plugs his strat into the guys amp and it was so much browner and basically exactly what the guy wanted out of his tone! the guy just got silenced to speechlessness---shut down---because the proof was in the pudding, and that in that *instant* i wanted a holmes pickup, because i figured that had to be the main difference. but time would reveal that it wasn't just the pickup :doh:

and for what it's worth, zach is getting KILLING sounds with the peacemaker and his gear. both of us have been through piles and years of gear and we agree the PM is the ultimate rock machine, but it requires looking beyond just the obvious what it can or can't do on the surface. if you can do that and "hear" it, that underlying thing about great amps and the voice inside the tone, you chase it. but i also know many people don't understand that factor.

and while rockstah's metro kit sounds beautiful on his clips, but i am in no way interested in building my own amp.

and i think the real underlying message people are driving at is that vic did something devious to try and trick the world into buying peacemakers, like swapping and baiting with a magic marshall on the clips and then selling us an entirely different amp, but i have seen and heard enough first hand to KNOW that is not the case.

i wasn't there when he recorded his clips, so i don't know if he used his superbass and will never know, but i was there when he plugged into his prototype, and subsequent production models, including mine, and got the sound.

and even though i didn't get vic or ralle or rockstah grade tones with my peacemaker using my gear, it was still the best rock tone i've ever owned, very brown for my tastes, and VERY inspirational.
had that rock sound been my bread and butter sound live i'd still have it, but to me the PM is very aggresive and wants to be at a certain volume for the speaker's sake, unless you go the load out/reamp route, which is too much to set up live for me, and i play in church where my 12 watt coyote is sometimes too much :D

so for simplicity sake, i'd rather have a low wattage amp pushing power tubes versus putting a collar around 100 watts in that setting. but i miss my peacemaker daily!

i'll never forget playing an outdoor set with the PM cranked. it was the best rock tone i've ever had the pleasure of playing through live. i kept looking back at the amp thinking "it sounds like i'm using eddie's old rig!" it chomped and roared and chirped exactly how i dreamed it would. and still that was not as perfect as doing the wet/dry rig with the peacemaker. that is the BOMB.

the power dampening thing is subjective...not perfect if you are trying to extract studio grade VH I-fair warning tone/touch perfection, but in the few years I used the PM live it was ideal for dialing down volume, between the clicks on the THD hotplate, and any tone artifacts occuring live were insignificant to my ears amidst drums, bass, keyboards, other guitars, saxes, etc.. it was as good as the attenuation on the Aiken tomcat which i have messed with. zach said the london power scaling attenuation on John Suhr's badger is amazing, so i'd guess that's a great choice. i thought the ultimate attenuator sounded incredible on my coyote.

i'm not on a mission to defend mojave or vic, but i am going to stand by what i've heard and experienced to the death.
 
mentoneman":1a5f4 said:
Gainfreak":1a5f4 said:
mentoneman":1a5f4 said:
the difference being, i've seen vic take a cable from his guitar and plug in to the peacemaker and get REALLY amazing brown sounds, for myself, in the room, with no mics or studio magic.
Click to expand...

yes but the million dollar question is..... could Vic plug into your Old Peacemaker and get amazing brown sounds? I've not heard one other guy who owns a peacemaker get the tones that Vic does on his!!! :rock:
Click to expand...

my very gifted tone bro brah!

the answer to your first question is YES! which honestly made it very confusing for me as well as the other peacemaker owners chiming in here. but the reality is i've talked to vic while at his shop about this very topic, describing my frustration with my guitar tone/touch after he plays with his guitar through my cable/amp/cab and gets that sound and response!

and it is why he was trying to reproduce his brown strat...for us mojave owners. we talked about the mahogany and neck through construction...about how the holmes 455 pickup sounded, and the effect the original floyd rose might have...even the mighty vic was baffled by the difference his guitars made, but in the end i just chalked it up to vic having a special symmetry with the gtr/amp, and tried not to get caught up in what i didn't have, and concentrated on what i could do with my gear.

the thing that really nailed it home for me was when one of his customers happened to be in the shop while i was there, and vic had just finished restoring the guy's marshall head. the guy plugs in to check it out and it is the tone you've heard a billion times from joe blow playing a normal old marshall loud with relatively low gain. the guy starts talking modding this or that, and vic very diplomatically suggests that what may be needed is different pickups or guitar wood.

as the guy begins to disagree, vic looks at me, then plugs his strat into the guys amp and it was so much browner and basically exactly what the guy wanted out of his tone! the guy just got silenced to speechlessness---shut down---because the proof was in the pudding, and that in that *instant* i wanted a holmes pickup, because i figured that had to be the main difference. but time would reveal that it wasn't just the pickup :doh:

and for what it's worth, zach is getting KILLING sounds with the peacemaker and his gear. both of us have been through piles and years of gear and we agree the PM is the ultimate rock machine, but it requires looking beyond just the obvious what it can or can't do on the surface. if you can do that and "hear" it, that underlying thing about great amps and the voice inside the tone, you chase it. but i also know many people don't understand that factor.

and while rockstah's metro kit sounds beautiful on his clips, but i am in no way interested in building my own amp.

and i think the real underlying message people are driving at is that vic did something devious to try and trick the world into buying peacemakers, like swapping and baiting with a magic marshall on the clips and then selling us an entirely different amp, but i have seen and heard enough first hand to KNOW that is not the case.

i wasn't there when he recorded his clips, so i don't know if he used his superbass and will never know, but i was there when he plugged into his prototype, and subsequent production models, including mine, and got the sound.

and even though i didn't get vic or ralle or rockstah grade tones with my peacemaker using my gear, it was still the best rock tone i've ever owned, very brown for my tastes, and VERY inspirational.
had that rock sound been my bread and butter sound live i'd still have it, but to me the PM is very aggresive and wants to be at a certain volume for the speaker's sake, unless you go the load out/reamp route, which is too much to set up live for me, and i play in church where my 12 watt coyote is sometimes too much :D

so for simplicity sake, i'd rather have a low wattage amp pushing power tubes versus putting a collar around 100 watts in that setting. but i miss my peacemaker daily!

i'll never forget playing an outdoor set with the PM cranked. it was the best rock tone i've ever had the pleasure of playing through live. i kept looking back at the amp thinking "it sounds like i'm using eddie's old rig!" it chomped and roared and chirped exactly how i dreamed it would. and still that was not as perfect as doing the wet/dry rig with the peacemaker. that is the BOMB.

the power dampening thing is subjective...not perfect if you are trying to extract studio grade VH I-fair warning tone/touch perfection, but in the few years I used the PM live it was ideal for dialing down volume, between the clicks on the THD hotplate, and any tone artifacts occuring live were insignificant to my ears amidst drums, bass, keyboards, other guitars, saxes, etc.. it was as good as the attenuation on the Aiken tomcat which i have messed with. zach said the london power scaling attenuation on John Suhr's badger is amazing, so i'd guess that's a great choice. i thought the ultimate attenuator sounded incredible on my coyote.

i'm not on a mission to defend mojave or vic, but i am going to stand by what i've heard and experienced to the death.
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Hey Brother!!
Im sure that Vic isn't trying to do the bait and switch thing but the reality of the situation is that he is the only one that I have ever heard get that sound out of his amps...... period. Not you, Brother Mark, Brother Zach, Brother Curt or even Brother Steve came close IMHO. Zach might be getting glorious tones out of the PM but it isn't "THE TONE" IMHO.
What makes me leary about the situation is that I have heard Stan, Rockstah,Ralle and RGalpin and more then a few others at the metro site get the same sound or better by using the metros using different guitars. I know the guitar makes a HUGE differance but my reasoning is why is it that these guys are getting great tones and only Vic gets the almighty sound out of the PM?. The odds just don't add up brother and Im sure its not a malicous thing being done on Vics part but rather a question of why the hell would I spend 3 large on an amp and have to do the search for the almighty of guitars,pickups, mojo blah blah.
Even getting a used PM at $1700 and still having to find the recipe seems odd to me especially when others have nailed a tone that I dig with the Metro's and various guitars.
The point Im making is that Vic needs to find out what is actually going on and narrow the odds for success before I think anyone would shell out the $$$$.
A betting man would put there money 10 to 1 on a Metro kit which is even $1000 less if George were to build it for you and 2 large cheaper if you build it yourself.

Im not here to trash Vic at all but to question is what the heck is going on!!. Not to add internet drama but there are more people not satisfied with the PM then current owners and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

now if Vic offered a Guitar and amp for 3g's that will nail the tone, sign me up, but until then paint me a skeptic!!

And for the record, I know how great your ears are and how much of a stand up guy you are, so Im 100% sure what you saw is legit but I'm just not getting it lol!!


YOU ROCK my brother!!


Ralph
 
Ah......reading Pat's accounts of tone chasing is like having two or three nightcaps by the fire :)

Pat, no way do I have your experience but I am not really buying the "brown" guitar especially when you are stating pieces that were never part of the equation. IMO it is and always will be the fierce beating EVH gave to his strings and his echoplex, the guy had a heavy right hand.

But as you respect my defending of the dark one I will respect your defense of Vic....peace :)
 
There is no way I would buy a PM after hearing a Metro, just doesn't make sense. The Metro seems to be more versatile to my ears as well, but I could be completely wrong.

I will say that after hearing Pat's clean tones, I am freaking jonesing for a Coyote! That little thing sounded freaking GREAT!!!
 
Pat,
Your response was excellent and pretty thought provoking and I don't consider you a blind Mojave fan boy or swinging from anybody's jock. You have been to the mountaintop. You have been converted through a few very powerful exposures to Vic's brown sound. However, the main thought that your post provoked in me? Now, instead of chasing Eddie Van Halen's tone, us Mojave owners have been chasing Vic's tone. A bit ironic, dontcha think? Vic uses this specific pickup, with this specific body wood, with this particular neck through construction, with this particular era of Floyd Rose. That's crazy and no easier to achieve than chasing Eddie's tone. Vic has always helped me try and get where he is, and been a totally cool guy, but this really seems a little silly to me.

ON the Metro board, you have pro players, hobbyists, amp techs, collectors and guys still working on their playing all achieving killer EVH tones. Better than any of us Mojave owners have gotten. You have guys using alder bodies, ash bodies, korina bodies, Les Pauls. You have guys using WCR Darkburts, stock Gibson pickups, Voodoo '59s, Duncan EVH's, and Ralle uses a freaking JB! They use greenbacks, g12h30's, blackbacks, Stan spec Webers. And even more mind-boggling, they use original plexi's, plexi kits, Super Bass circuits, Super Lead circuits, 2203 preamps with plexi power sections. There is no specific recipe. No single guitar that sounds so good that "the tone" is impossible without it.

I first heard Vic playing an old Plexi at the Orange County guitar show before Mojave even existed it. He was running a line out into effects and a power amp and was getting killer brown tones. I stopped and listened to him for probably 20 minutes. He's just one of those guys who knows how to get that tone. I think I need to face the fact that for whatever reason, I just don't have that tone in me.
 
Chubtone":99d2a said:
Pat,
Your response was excellent and pretty thought provoking and I don't consider you a blind Mojave fan boy or swinging from anybody's jock. You have been to the mountaintop. You have been converted through a few very powerful exposures to Vic's brown sound. However, the main thought that your post provoked in me? Now, instead of chasing Eddie Van Halen's tone, us Mojave owners have been chasing Vic's tone. A bit ironic, dontcha think? Vic uses this specific pickup, with this specific body wood, with this particular neck through construction, with this particular era of Floyd Rose. That's crazy and no easier to achieve than chasing Eddie's tone. Vic has always helped me try and get where he is, and been a totally cool guy, but this really seems a little silly to me.

ON the Metro board, you have pro players, hobbyists, amp techs, collectors and guys still working on their playing all achieving killer EVH tones. Better than any of us Mojave owners have gotten. You have guys using alder bodies, ash bodies, korina bodies, Les Pauls. You have guys using WCR Darkburts, stock Gibson pickups, Voodoo '59s, Duncan EVH's, and Ralle uses a freaking JB! They use greenbacks, g12h30's, blackbacks, Stan spec Webers. And even more mind-boggling, they use original plexi's, plexi kits, Super Bass circuits, Super Lead circuits, 2203 preamps with plexi power sections. There is no specific recipe. No single guitar that sounds so good that "the tone" is impossible without it.

I first heard Vic playing an old Plexi at the Orange County guitar show before Mojave even existed it. He was running a line out into effects and a power amp and was getting killer brown tones. I stopped and listened to him for probably 20 minutes. He's just one of those guys who knows how to get that tone. I think I need to face the fact that for whatever reason, I just don't have that tone in me.
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You and Pat are much better at putting your thoughts into words then I am !!!

That said, I am really trying to learn this amp stuff Curt and when I figure out WTF Im doing I aim to proove you wrong about that tone not being in you. ;)


~R~
 
I am VERY impressed with the metro madness going on. after heraing Ralphs clips, Rockstah's and now this, I may have to look into this....bitchen raw rock n roll tones!. :thumbsup:
 
oh wow...Im on the phone w/ them for the 50 watter :)

let you know
 
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