Modellers vs loud Tube amps

[DanTravis62]

My last gig about a week ago, I was playing by muscle memory for the first song. So i'm singing and looking at my hand and just going by where it should be. Meanwhile, my bass player apparently had a 747 jet engine for his backline and was ripping my skin off with sound.

Yep. Unless you've got great monitoring this is the experience that everyone has with modelers live.

 

[DanTravis62]

Im not counting it in what you would need if you ran an amp, the entire band is going to need the PA.

You are conflating two different things. "a pa" and "a pa that is extensive enough to make a modeler sound great in a live band" are not the same thing.

If you play all your gigs with extensive professional gear, great sound engineers, and gobs of monitors to make your experience awesome, then yeah modelers are going to be awesome and work fine.

If you, like 99.999999% of the guitar playing universe, are playing small clubs where you're lucky as hell to have any monitor to hear the vocals through, a modeler is just going to be a pain in the ass and is going to sound like shit - unless you run it with a power amp in a rack or whatever.... in which case you are carrying just as much stuff as if you were bringing an amp.

 

[rsm]

 

[CoreyW]

You are conflating two different things. "a pa" and "a pa that is extensive enough to make a modeler sound great in a live band" are not the same thing.

If you play all your gigs with extensive professional gear, great sound engineers, and gobs of monitors to make your experience awesome, then yeah modelers are going to be awesome and work fine.

If you, like 99.999999% of the guitar playing universe, are playing small clubs where you're lucky as hell to have any monitor to hear the vocals through, a modeler is just going to be a pain in the ass and is going to sound like shit - unless you run it with a power amp in a rack or whatever.... in which case you are carrying just as much stuff as if you were bringing an amp.

Why are you saying a modeler requires such a better quality PA than a amp and cab does?

If you’re micing a cabinet, then you are needing the same PA. A modeler just plugs in direct, the board can’t tell the difference, the mains can’t tell the difference. In either instance, you will need monitoring. Bad monitoring sucks for both instances, and good monitoring works in both instances. A small bar you can use powered 12” mains and depending on how your drums are set up, you can usually get away with no sub and still sound pretty good. In a small venue limiting the sound to only coming from the mains will give you a better sound to the crowd, having a cabinet that overpowers the PA makes it significantly more difficult to get a good mix.

 

[DanTravis62]

Why are you saying a modeler requires such a better quality PA than a amp and cab does?

If you’re micing a cabinet, then you are needing the same PA. A modeler just plugs in direct, the board can’t tell the difference, the mains can’t tell the difference. In either instance, you will need monitoring. Bad monitoring sucks for both instances, and good monitoring works in both instances. A small bar you can use powered 12” mains and depending on how your drums are set up, you can usually get away with no sub and still sound pretty good. In a small venue limiting the sound to only coming from the mains will give you a better sound to the crowd, having a cabinet that overpowers the PA makes it significantly more difficult to get a good mix.

You're assuming people mic up cabinets at most gigs They most certainly do not

 

[glpg80]

You're assuming people mic up cabinets at most gigs They most certainly do not

+1

We would mic drums with an insane drum mic kit, pointed a cab at the drummer, pointed a cab at the crowd, and let it eat. FOH said it was the easiest mix they did all night. Tube amps have a fuck ton of headroom to fill a small venu. The only time we ever mic’d guitar cabs was on hollow stages outdoors where you needed the projection and even then it was still an SM57 and loud as hell.

We played live before quiet stages were even thought of.

 

[DanTravis62]

+1

We would mic drums with an insane drum mic kit, pointed a cab at the drummer, pointed a cab at the crowd, and let it eat. FOH said it was the easiest mix they did all night. Tube amps have a fuck ton of headroom to fill a small venu. The only time we ever mic’d guitar cabs was on hollow stages outdoors where you needed the projection and even then it was still an SM57 and loud as hell.

We played live before quiet stages were even thought of.

I think the problem is that people assume every venue is going to have a PA capable of supporting a modeler setup, and that simply isn't the case. Or even close to the case. The only way to be sure is to bring your own PA, and then you're carrying that in lieu of the guitar amps and cabs.

Generally speaking, there are very few venues under 300 people where youre going to have nice sound reinforcement, and for the vast majority of guys in bands those are going to be the vast majority of venues that you play.

Once you start playing theater sized venues? Sure, you can play modelers all day every day and they will sound great.

I just dont want people to plan their spending on their "gigging" gear around a lie, which that most certainly qualifies as.

 

[Little B]

If i gig a local watering hole,the fender Princetons or bandmasters w/ a 2x12 or 2 come out.When i gig the theaters, outdoor festivals, and do opening support of major headliners in arenas.2- 4x12s minimum and boutique heads come out for that.Sunday morns on the worship team,crank up an amp in a side room w/ 57 or 629.
In all my years playing I have never needed or even for that matter been in a situation where I had to use a modeler.Others may need or want a modeler, I have no interest at all.I am very happy with my rigs and they work out in all my situations very well.

 

[buddachile]

I have heard modellers sound great live. But they are run through front of house as are the tube amps.
I think the thing that people don't understand is the playing of a modeller vs a tube amp as the real disconnect. The feel of a tube amp is unbeatable.

And maybe a modeller is the same with a tube power amp and real cab. I cannot say as I have no experience with it. Would love to try for sure.

I have a FM3 I mostly use with my studio monitors or headphones, but when I want to hear it loud I'll run it through a Synergy 50-50 power amp into a 4x12 w/ V30s and GH30s. For me it delivers the playing through a real amp experience, likely because you actually are. It's just that the "pre-amp" tone is coming from a digital modeler instead of a tube pre-amp stage.

 

[demondestroyer]

Didnt have time to read the thread but I want my amps to rip my face off not pat me on the back and say every things gonna be okay buddy
Its gotta be ridiculous gain, volume and chest pounding tube and solid state power!!!

 

[demondestroyer]

I have had some digital stuff in the past and it was okay but not what moved me.