Paganini's Caprice no. 5 on One Guitar - Marcin (Live Session)

[fearhk213]

With those top classical players the notes, timing, and musical intentions like phrasing and dynamics are all crystal clear

Those guys you posted are monsters. Good gosh lol. Thanks for posting that.

 

[braintheory]

Yup, which is why I said:


There are a few freaks out there, but robotic performance ability eludes the vast majority.


Yup. It's deflating Greg!

Yeah that's why I get more impressed with those more robotic types because I almost always have at least a few small mistakes here and there in my performances

Shouldn't be deflating. Honestly, a lot of these guys had great teachers and they worked really hard. A great teacher can really go a long way and make you surprised at what you thought you could and couldn't do

 

[braintheory]

Those guys you posted are monsters. Good gosh lol. Thanks for posting that.

Absolutely! Wasn't trying to be a smart ass, but honestly that Marcin isn't a monster player. Here are a few more:
I can assure you guys that this is much more demanding than those Paganini pieces. That last guy is my current teacher





I can assure you guys that this is much more demanding than those Paganini pieces. That last guy is my current teacher

 

[braintheory]

Also this guy at 9:30 has the most fluid, graceful left hand technique I've seen:

 

[braintheory]

More importantly also these pieces are musically deeper than the Paganini caprices, but some of his other works have a lot more depth

 

[fearhk213]

Absolutely! Wasn't trying to be a smart ass, but honestly that Marcin isn't a monster player. Here are a few more:
I can assure you guys that this is much more demanding than those Paganini pieces. That last guy is my current teacher





I can assure you guys that this is much more demanding than those Paganini pieces. That last guy is my current teacher

I really like that first piece. Musically is already a very interesting piece and then his playing makes it come alive. I would love to have that level of command over the guitar like that guy or your teacher has.

 

[braintheory]

I really like that first piece. Musically is already a very interesting piece and then his playing makes it come alive. I would love to have that level of command over the guitar like that guy or your teacher has.

Not a bad thing to have right? The composer of that first piece also was a blind pianist. Definitely some evocative melodies there. Very Spanish

And yeah Marko is one of those players that is great both musically/expressively and technically. Not many players who do both very well. Same with electric

 

[braintheory]

The interesting thing also is that technically, if you look at things horizontally in the music, there can often be half as many notes going on per second as there would be in some of the stuff Shawn Lane or Yngwie plays, but our ears interpret it differently

 

[SpiderWars]

Marcin is the grande finale in that 13 minute shred video I posted. First time I'd ever seen him. Amazing.

And if you want to hear him in a different context, how bout some Zeppelin:

 

[fearhk213]

Yeah the practice needed for that accuracy is painful and beyond mind numbing, not that I'm there yet myself, but working on it, so a lot of guys quit. I always procrastinate that kinda practice myself lol. It fries my brain more than anything else I've ever had to do. No exaggeration. It's a shame that it's a lot of investment for in some ways a low payoff

Since you’re in that world, what type of practice routines & hours are folks at that level putting in on a daily basis?

 

[braintheory]

Since you’re in that world, what type of practice routines & hours are folks at that level putting in on a daily basis?

The amount of hours can vary a lot, but most from what I know do ~3-4hr’s a day. Some more, some less. The routines/drills/exercises that really train the fingers for the necessary coordination and stuff is very mentally taxing because you’re rewiring your brain and fingers to do movements they are not used to doing, so it feels like you’re fighting your fingers at first until it clicks. If you’re focusing more on that then it’s honestly hard to have the mental stamina to practice more than 1-2hrs day, but that’s the most valuable thing you can do for technique imo. Gotta dissect everything very slowly and carefully. I had a lesson once where we spent almost an hour on just my left hand, just going from the 1st to 2nd fret on one string (index to middle finger). Literally just that. The movements gotta all be very precise to build a good foundation in technique

That kid Marcin and the ones that aren’t quite great probably are not aware of that stuff. I honestly think many guys can play like those guys with the right practice and training. I don’t think those guys are necessarily super talented freaks, but are extremely disciplined. Classical guitar is one of those instruments that many start late. I know of a few guys who started in their 20’s who are now in the same league as some of those guys and even placed equally well in competitions. It’s possible, but you kinda have to give up on other hobbies lol. It’s not just about how many hours you play per day, but also how often you’re thinking about it

 

[fearhk213]

The amount of hours can vary a lot, but most from what I know do ~3-4hr’s a day. Some more, some less. The routines/drills/exercises that really train the fingers for the necessary coordination and stuff is very mentally taxing because you’re rewiring your brain and fingers to do movements they are not used to doing, so it feels like you’re fighting your fingers at first until it clicks. If you’re focusing more on that then it’s honestly hard to have the mental stamina to practice more than 1-2hrs day, but that’s the most valuable thing you can do for technique imo. Gotta dissect everything very slowly and carefully. I had a lesson once where we spent almost an hour on just my left hand, just going from the 1st to 2nd fret on one string (index to middle finger). Literally just that. The movements gotta all be very precise to build a good foundation in technique

That kid Marcin and the ones that aren’t quite great probably are not aware of that stuff. I honestly think many guys can play like those guys with the right practice and training. I don’t think those guys are necessarily super talented freaks, but are extremely disciplined. Classical guitar is one of those instruments that many start late. I know of a few guys who started in their 20’s who are now in the same league as some of those guys and even placed equally well in competitions. It’s possible, but you kinda have to give up on other hobbies lol. It’s not just about how many hours you play per day, but also how often you’re thinking about it

I’m no where near the level of playing we’re discussing here haha, but I totally get what you’re saying about rewiring the brain & fingers. That type of practice can really suck the life out of you. When I’m dealing with something challenging I usually have to get to the point where I can start to visualize my fingers playing it in my head in a first person view. That can really fry my brain as well. Then somewhere along the way, if I stick with it, my mental image and physical playing start to align. It may sound silly and I don’t have to do that when I’m learning something that is familiar, but it helps quite a bit if it’s a pattern I’m not familiar with or one that is simply above my pay grade. What’s also interesting is sometimes when I go through those types of woodshed phases where I’m trying to visualize something I’ll feel like I get better and then start to get worse both in playing it and visualizing it. I won’t play for a couple of days and then come back mentally better and can play it better. Not unlike giving your body and mind a rest from working out.

That’s interesting about that lesson. It sounds so remedial on paper, but when you think about being consistently accurate in execution of both technique and tone it makes perfect sense. Especially when you start dealing with complex and/or fast parts because the technique flaws start showing up then. I know that from personal experience LOL. I was taking lessons (electric, not classical) from a guy a while back and he pointed out some flaws in my fretting hand technique that affected my ability to do get some stuff down accurately at higher speeds. Mainly little tweaks to thumb & hand positioning, but also some fingering choices because of the way I had been holding my hand. One of the things he pointed out with fingering choice was with this quick sweep pattern I was working on. I generally don’t mess with sweeps, but I couldn’t seemingly get this one up to a speed I should’ve been able to. There was this note where I was using my pinky to reach a note towards the end of it because it seemed like the quickest, most efficient way to reach the note. He suggested I use my ring finger because even though it would be more of a stretch, my hand would stay more open and it would make it easier to get the entire run faster & smoother. It seemed counter intuitive at first, but fiddling with it for a bit it was clearly the better approach. So yeah, it can be super helpful to have a good teacher to help you tweak technique.

 

[SpiderWars]

Fun exercise: Pretend you will be electrically shocked everytime you make a mistake. Pick any piece of music you like and play it as slowly as you want. But if you fuck up...BZZZZZZZZT!

I'd be dead pretty quick.

 

[TheRealDonnie]

The Caprice's are to classical what Eruption is to electric.

Best faking it ever.
Go Daniel-son!

 

[braintheory]

I’m no where near the level of playing we’re discussing here haha, but I totally get what you’re saying about rewiring the brain & fingers. That type of practice can really suck the life out of you. When I’m dealing with something challenging I usually have to get to the point where I can start to visualize my fingers playing it in my head in a first person view. That can really fry my brain as well. Then somewhere along the way, if I stick with it, my mental image and physical playing start to align. It may sound silly and I don’t have to do that when I’m learning something that is familiar, but it helps quite a bit if it’s a pattern I’m not familiar with or one that is simply above my pay grade. What’s also interesting is sometimes when I go through those types of woodshed phases where I’m trying to visualize something I’ll feel like I get better and then start to get worse both in playing it and visualizing it. I won’t play for a couple of days and then come back mentally better and can play it better. Not unlike giving your body and mind a rest from working out.

That’s interesting about that lesson. It sounds so remedial on paper, but when you think about being consistently accurate in execution of both technique and tone it makes perfect sense. Especially when you start dealing with complex and/or fast parts because the technique flaws start showing up then. I know that from personal experience LOL. I was taking lessons (electric, not classical) from a guy a while back and he pointed out some flaws in my fretting hand technique that affected my ability to do get some stuff down accurately at higher speeds. Mainly little tweaks to thumb & hand positioning, but also some fingering choices because of the way I had been holding my hand. One of the things he pointed out with fingering choice was with this quick sweep pattern I was working on. I generally don’t mess with sweeps, but I couldn’t seemingly get this one up to a speed I should’ve been able to. There was this note where I was using my pinky to reach a note towards the end of it because it seemed like the quickest, most efficient way to reach the note. He suggested I use my ring finger because even though it would be more of a stretch, my hand would stay more open and it would make it easier to get the entire run faster & smoother. It seemed counter intuitive at first, but fiddling with it for a bit it was clearly the better approach. So yeah, it can be super helpful to have a good teacher to help you tweak technique.

Yeah I also do that. Often have days of not physically playing, but on my mind. Because of covid since 2020 I’ve had time to work this way and relearn almost from the beginning. I wasn’t allowed to play any pieces of music for the first few months. Only exercises. Was not fun. I had already finished my post-masters in classical guitar, got to the semi-finals in a tough competition (that got canceled from covid), but he said it doesn’t matter, we have to rebuild you if you wanna be competitive with those guys and still after almost 2 years not fully rebuilt yet, but getting better. I’ve not seriously practiced electric in many years now. Mostly just play go to stuff I’ve know for years and do my gear testing these days, which distracts from my classical practicing haha

Cool to see others interested in this stuff. I’d be curious later on to see lessons from the best electric players and see how their approach is to thinking about this stuff

 

[TheRealDonnie]

So funny that Vai records the part that Macchio is miming to, and then he has to purposely screw it up in front of the camera.

Also, HTF does Ralphie get that final 24th fret bend out of a Telecaster?????

 

[SpiderWars]

It’s not just about how many hours you play per day, but also how often you’re thinking about it

So you're saying I can't just sit there and play Dust in the Wind and Black Water while I'm watching TV and get that good. Dammit!

 

[braintheory]

So you're saying I can't just sit there and play Dust in the Wind and Black Water while I'm watching TV and get that good. Dammit!

Actually this one guitarist Eliot Fisk can do things like that. He can read through stuff like those Paganini pieces on his train rides with no guitar in his hands, pick up the guitar way later and be able to play it, but he’s a freak and don’t know anyone else who could do that. His music reading abilities are like so many standard deviations off the charts lol

 

[Philo Beddoe]

Marcin is the grande finale in that 13 minute shred video I posted. First time I'd ever seen him. Amazing.

And if you want to hear him in a different context, how bout some Zeppelin:

 

[Monkey Man]

Good point.