Robert Card (Maine Mass Shooter) Case Analysis

[84superchamp]

I should have said, "Has become uniquely violent and depraved." And as the saying goes, the fish rots from the head down. Of course this doesn't mean all people in the US! As for "demented and warped", what do you mean? Legitimately defensive use of force includes response to a credible threat, although as of late that has become anything people want it to mean, like mean tweets being "violent," and a whole generation of neurotics not feeling "Safe."

I guess “demented and warped” could most easily be described as a drastic withdrawal from established and accepted norms.

 

[Bad Brain]

I guess “demented and warped” could most easily be described as a drastic withdrawal from established and accepted norms.

Well there's social norms and laws. IMO if one doesn't aggress, threaten aggression, or demonstrate that they are unable to understand these things, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to own a gun.

 

[84superchamp]

Well there's social norms and laws. IMO if one doesn't aggress, threaten aggression, or demonstrate that they are unable to understand these things, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to own a gun.

I agree.

 

[FokenBusker]

That guy totally ruined the phrase "what a card."

 

[Dan Gleesak]

No one should have nukes! Why should the military have these weapons when they can use them to massacre many more innocent people than this Maine guy? Are you upset about that @Aynirar27 ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

I’m ok with nukes. I mean I don’t love them, the world would probably be a better place without them, but I am far less worried about a family member dying in nuclear war than I am a gun shot

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Well there's social norms and laws. IMO if one doesn't aggress, threaten aggression, or demonstrate that they are unable to understand these things, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to own a gun.

Im curious how often are gun owners evaluated? Sure there might be something done when getting the initial permit or whatever, but then what?

I used to have my financials checked routinely followed by an interview with a detective just to have a certain clearance in a state run casino.

A dude might be in a good headspace when he gets a gun, but what about after life shits on him for a decade ya know?

I’m saying there are many options to “gun control” that aren’t banning guns

 

[FokenBusker]

I’m ok with nukes. I mean I don’t love them, the world would probably be a better place without them, but I am far less worried about a family member dying in nuclear war than I am a gun shot

I worry about what happens when a nuclear nation goes so broke they gotta sell off their ordinance. You damned well know assholes like Musk and Bezos will be first in line for them

 

[Dan Gleesak]

I worry about what happens when a nuclear nation goes so broke they gotta sell off their ordinance. You damned well know assholes like Musk and Bezos will be first in line for them

For some reason I would trust Musk with one over Bezos or Gates etc. maybe it's his hair cut, I dunno.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

100%. There is no such thing as a "mental illness" in the medical sense, with objective, quantifiable testing. It's all subjective and cultural. Don't forget, all you numb-nuts calling for this, that being gay was once considered a mental illness. So too being anti-communist in the USSR.

this is the OTC, a large percentage of posters still believe homosexuality is a mental illness

 

[Ben Waylin]

this is the OTC, a large percentage of posters still believe homosexuality is a mental illness

Naw, those guys have all been run off..

Now you have your echo chamber.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Naw, those guys have all been run off..

Now you have your echo chamber.

yea they were totally run off lol

have you not read this thread? barely anyone has agreed on anything but not once has anyone been a dickhole about it. it's kinda nice

 

[Bad Brain]

I’m ok with nukes. I mean I don’t love them, the world would probably be a better place without them, but I am far less worried about a family member dying in nuclear war than I am a gun shot

Well that's your personal risk assessment, which you're entitled to. But you echo the sentiment of a lot of people these days that want the world to conform to their own personal preferences and beliefs.

Im curious how often are gun owners evaluated? Sure there might be something done when getting the initial permit or whatever, but then what?

It's a good point, but you're dealing with an enshrined right, not a privilege. Would you argue for ongoing assessments for free speech as well?

 

[Bad Brain]

Nukes, gain of function viruses, self-spreading vaccines, GMO organisms, pollution, world wars — it's weird how people freak out about an admittedly horrible, yet isolated and relatively insignificant event when all of humanity is at stake, or at least a significant portion.

..."A Single Death Is a Tragedy; A Million Deaths Is a Statistic"

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Well that's your personal risk assessment, which you're entitled to. But you echo the sentiment of a lot of people these days that want the world to conform to their own personal preferences and beliefs.

It's a good point, but you're dealing with an enshrined right, not a privilege. Would you argue for ongoing assessments for free speech as well?

I think there are certainly instances where “free speech” is no longer a right. Like every time Trump decides to be a dumbass and violate his gag order.

Sure everyone is born with rights, however imo it is their duty as a citizen to also follow the laws of the governing body who granted them those rights. There is a small portion of responsibility on the person to maintain the rights they were given.

 

[DrewJD82]

I think the 'no enforcement by people who believe in the 2A' are doing so because they know this will become completely twisted to expand gun control and take away rights from people who have no business being banned from firearms and that aspect will just snowball to become more and more powerful of a tool by anti 2Aers.

And not enforcing laws is handing the 2A to anti-2A people on a silver platter. Because when the yellow and red flag laws prove to be useless, what’s the next step? It won’t be “Ah, fuck it, we tried, it’s pointless”, they’re going to want to do MORE and that most likely means amping up rhetoric on actually taking guns from people. While some politicians are certainly aiming for banning/removing guns from people, the majority of citizens are not in line with that and just want something in place that’ll make things a bit safer. No one wants to calm down and drop their pearls long enough to realize that though, on either side.

Precisely why I said there should some effort for firearm enthusiast to police their own. If you’re at the range and hear someone talking stupid shit about killing people, fuckin’ say something. If your buddy of 30 years is all of a sudden having a meltdown and it’s probably not the best idea for him to have a firearm around, fuckin’ say something.

None of us are perfect machines, we’re flawed and sometimes we break down and need to be taken out of service for repairs. That’s not a big deal, it doesn’t negate someone’s worth in life unless they don’t get fixed and end their lives or others as a result. It doesn’t make anyone less of a worthy individual if they need to let someone else hold onto their guns for a bit to ensure they can spend the rest of their lives with them in their possession, safely.

 

[84superchamp]

Im curious how often are gun owners evaluated? Sure there might be something done when getting the initial permit or whatever, but then what?

I used to have my financials checked routinely followed by an interview with a detective just to have a certain clearance in a state run casino.

A dude might be in a good headspace when he gets a gun, but what about after life shits on him for a decade ya know?

I’m saying there are many options to “gun control” that aren’t banning guns

That’s why this incident is so infuriating, laws and precautions were in place and this fuckhead should have been disarmed before any of it happened. Those procedures were ignored and people died.

 

[Bad Brain]

I think there are certainly instances where “free speech” is no longer a right. Like every time Trump decides to be a dumbass and violate his gag order.

Well we disagree on that. I believe certain rights are natural and inalienable. And the gag order is bullshit. It's a political play, just like the rest of the trial(s). All these folks are doing is delegitimizing the judicial system.

imo it is their duty as a citizen to also follow the laws of the governing body who granted them those rights

See above — no one "grants" rights. You are born with them. They are not privileges. That's why the onus is on you to demonstrate how they are not in fact rights and thus some people have the "Right" to take or "Regulate" them.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Well we disagree on that. I believe certain rights are natural and inalienable. And the gag order is bullshit. It's a political play, just like the rest of the trial(s). All these folks are doing is delegitimizing the judicial system.

See above — no one "grants" rights. You are born with them. They are not privileges. That's why the onus is on you to demonstrate how they are not in fact rights and thus some people have the "Right" to take or "Regulate" them.

rights can certainly be regulated or taken. Shit, some states will remove your right to live depending on the crime you commit. The legal system is there to, for a lack of better term, keep people in line. Most of the "rights" (amendments) were created to protect ourselves from the legal system, to create balance between the two forces. But your rights do not absolve you from egregious behavior.

 

[CrazyNutz]

Problem with this is if people know you are prohibited from buying firearms if you have some sort of diagnosis, that would most likely increase the number of people who would not seek treatment, and greatly increase the number of people prone to actions like mass murder to not seek treatment.

These people don't seek treatment anyway. So a moot point really.

It takes a family member to convince them in

There is also the issue that psychiatry is a complete quagmire of BS mixed in with attempts at treatment (which has terrible efficacy overall). Mental health as a segment of healthcare is rife with problems, there aren't legitimate tests performed that provide actual data for diagnosis as there are in every other segment of medicine, it's all very subjective to one degree or another.

Sadly because someone MUST babysit people with these mental problems. They don't know the meds are making them better. They can't tell the difference between the meds stopping psychotic episodes, or being off meds in a full psychotic episode. It all seems the same, so they figure they're better, and don't need the meds, so they come off them, or don't take them at all.

I'm not just talking out my ass, I've dealt with this with family. In the 80's mental institutions that could help these folks (yes against their will because that's what it took) were shut down. Reagan said it was best left to the families to deal with, OK Fine! But guess what? They left us powerless, we can't do anything.

 

[Bad Brain]

rights can certainly be regulated or taken. Shit, some states will remove your right to live depending on the crime you commit.

No, you’re thinking about it wrong—rights are taken only if you infringe on other people’s rights. And I’m talking about fundamental, essential rights, like the right of self-ownership, property, etc., not made up rights like the “right to an education, healthcare, to feel safe,” or whatever trendy thing people think is good and therefore call it a right.