So i heard/saw a Diezel Herbert finally

[glpg80]

you are allowed to have your opinions on 5150's. i think EVERYONE hates them by the way i read posts here on the forum. but at that point you are shit talking. i love my amplifier to death and i would actually LOVE to put it against some of the amplifiers here on the forum. i think people would love it. it has been road worthy, never failed me live, its been gigged weekly for many years, went through hell at band practices with no AC, and it still is going strong. ribbon cables? i could care less if it had string in it. it sounds good and has been reliable and doesn't require anything else - i've never had a problem with it at all.

hmmm seems like you felt i was attacking your opinion of the 5150 which is not the case, to each their own is my motto.

My opinion of the construction is also biased having dozens of them fail on the road with acts I tech for.

I'm not shit talking at all, someone responded about their feeling on that particular amp and I voiced my own which happen to be negative, sorry if it came off that way, but there is no inflection on a message board.

rock on!

hey its cool bro. i guess i got lucky with mine. i will say i personally wouldnt buy/own a 5150 from the ones i have tried at GC lately though - i agreee with everyone they fucking suck terribly. at least mine sounds somewhat decent at lower volumes.

 

[fearhk213]

It never fails, any negative criticism of an expensive amp brings out the defensive butthurt fanboi's like clockwork. And they always assume the critics can't afford one. lolz

The cutting in the mix comment really gets em excited. I did hear a Herbert live and it sounded like crap, but i thought it was user-error. I like the Herbert myself but i know it would be tricky to dial in with a band.

I had a Herbert for a couple of years. I gigged it and it was my main amp during that time. I played it through my Diezel rear-loaded cab at the time. I did find it trickier to dial in with a band than any other amp I've had. I'm far from a mid scooper too; I'm all about some mids. By itself it sounded huge, but throw in the bass and drums and the frequencies that made it sound huge seemed to disappear. What was left over I did find able to cut through most of the time, but it just wasn't as impressive sounding to my ears. It was like it just didn't sit in the mix with the same power and authority as I expected nor with as much as any other amp I've owned. The worst experience I ever had was having to play a club where the sound man didn't show. There wasn't a lot of guitar heard that night. Obviously it works great for some people and I'm sure it records like a monster, but it didn't work for me. Just my $.02, but I don't know how to dial in an amp so....

 

[OldSkoolNJ]

That is why I always tipped the sound guy

 

[headlessdeadguy]

you are allowed to have your opinions on 5150's. i think EVERYONE hates them by the way i read posts here on the forum. but at that point you are shit talking. i love my amplifier to death and i would actually LOVE to put it against some of the amplifiers here on the forum.

 

[Dale B]

The Herbert is all right, but it's by no means the best amp in the world. None of the Diezels are worth $4K+, unless they've installed a new fellatio feature.

And for those of you who don't know me, yes, I've owned some Diezels.

 

[headlessdeadguy]

Thats some funny shit right there.

 

[Shark Diver]

Me not too long ago playing my Diezel W/D/W rig. VH4/Herbie - 7 really cool tones. I found the Herbie too compressed for my taste in the long run. I liked the VH4 a little better. Herbie channel 2 in the (-) mode, and VH$ channel 3 were my favs. As I really started to explore all the amps I could, I found I preferred the more open amps, ie. SLO, Wizard, and I love the Marsha as well. Nothing wrong with the Diezels, but just not my thing once I got to play some other amps.

Did you throw in your shoes to seal the deal on that rig?
How do you step on your pedals with no shoes? must hurt!

I think I owed them the socks too, but it was cold...

Nah, I walk around barefoot all the time out here. could pretty much step on anything.

 

[GloryHog]

A Diezel head not cutting through the mix is almost undoubtedly user error. that mid cut get abused too often scooping out the fundamental guitar frequencies: midrange.

the easiest way to disappear in the mix is to scoop your mids.

In fact in my experience there are few guitarists that understand what a guitar should be adding to the mix frequency wise. The sound that makes you tremble in your bedroom almost certainly contains frequencies that are not only unnecessary to use live but will also have you stepping all over each others instruments. listening to the guitar alone is not representative of the guitar once onstage with the other instruments fighting for room. Its always been pretty remarkable to me comparing the guitar sounds before and after at sound checks. once the sound engineer I work with makes his onstage amp tweaks, the amps when played alone sound a tad thin and a little less crisp but once the band is playing its like magic, slicing right through with authority. the same as your mix on your albums.

the largest offender is bass. I have heard so many guys set their amps to a bass response that allows absolutely no room for the bassist its a crime. might as well let the guy stay home that playing bass for you!

IMO if you know how to leave room for everyone in the band frequency wise you can get ANY amp (within reason) to cut the way you want AND have a total band sound that is clearer and more articulate.

And plus one of the low mid grind of the Diezels, Ive always been a low mid guy and the Diezel line delivers in spades. Ill never sell mine, ever!

I agree with this post entirely. I've been dealing with this subject for 3 years with my Einstein, which is a little more open than the Herbie. I have to set my mids and presence high to cut through the mix. And keep the bass and depth at no more than noon. This gives me good cut. It's really all in the eq'ing. You would never turn up the mids knob like this on any other amp, probably. Funny thing is that people buy the Herbie because of the mid cut feature. (and it is awesome!) But, if they don't gig regularly and listen to what people say, they just can't get themselves to ease up on the mid cut, and the bass and depth, which kills their lacking of frequency in the mix. It sounds amazing when you are the only one playing, but with the whole band, you have to make adjustments.

BTW, I played a Herbie a couple of weeks ago, and I want one! Is it worth it? Depends on just how important your craft is to you. For me, Yes!

 

[lolzgreg]

As for the 5150, IMO its the worst amp I have ever heard. my ears have a strong dislike for crossover distortion. If crossover distortion was what I did like I have a much better sounding amp purposefully under biased to 12ma for crossover rather than use that amp made of the most sub par parts available and full of ribbon cables.

You can have your opinion, but the 3,000 professional recording engineers out there using them on 8/10 of their metal releases seem to think otherwise.

You can easily adjust the bias with a few mods. Not liking an amp because of how it's biased seems a bit silly.

Also, I've had my 5150 for 5 years with no issues at all. It's made well enough to keep up and if it sounds great...

EDIT: Sorry if I missed people commenting about this earlier in the thread. I felt the need to respond.

If anyone wants to know what a modded 5150 is supposed to sound like, PM me some backing tracks and high quality guitar DI's and I'll reamp for you.

-Greg

 

[nbarts]

It never fails, any negative criticism of an expensive amp brings out the defensive butthurt fanboi's like clockwork. And they always assume the critics can't afford one. lolz

Sounds like a 15 yr old HCAF statement right here. Lol.

I honestly think it's 100% true, because people defend their gear like it's their mom or girlfriend.

ahahahahahaha! people always blame others for what they do. the topic is opened to be discussed.

Is organic food worth paying that much extra?

 

[White_Van]

I've never had a problem cutting with my Einstein, on tape or in a band situation. On any of the channels, with any of my guitars.

I adore the amp, and still haven't played another amp that has knocked me in the noggin as hard as this one did the first time I played it. It was a surreal, borderline religious experience.

 

[steve_k]

The Herbert is a metal machine. I think that is the way Peter designed it. Better tones out of a VH4 if that is what you are after. Lots of bells and whistles on it too. If I am feeling some Slipknot, out comes the Herbert!

Me, I am on my old Mesa Mark kick and that's how I am rollin right now. I had an epiphany with the Mark III and Mark IV

Whether or not it is worth $4600 or not, that is in the hands of the owner. But, they are made in one of the most expensive countries in the world. Maybe Peter could have them assembled in China and cut the price to $1299 at Guitar Center.

I certainly wouldn't dis anyone here, especially Matt for his admiration of the 5150. I saw Machine Head last August and Rob Flynn still uses two of them live and in the studio and it sounds awesome as hell.

Steve

 

[glpg80]

The Herbert is a metal machine. I think that is the way Peter designed it. Better tones out of a VH4 if that is what you are after. Lots of bells and whistles on it too. If I am feeling some Slipknot, out comes the Herbert!

Me, I am on my old Mesa Mark kick and that's how I am rollin right now. I had an epiphany with the Mark III and Mark IV

Whether or not it is worth $4600 or not, that is in the hands of the owner. But, they are made in one of the most expensive countries in the world. Maybe Peter could have them assembled in China and cut the price to $1299 at Guitar Center.

I certainly wouldn't dis anyone here, especially Matt for his admiration of the 5150. I saw Machine Head last August and Rob Flynn still uses two of them live and in the studio and it sounds awesome as hell.

Steve

thanks for your kind words steve. as far as the mesa's go there is alot of talk about the III's and IV's with red stripes or blue stripes and of course the infamous IIC+.

sadly enough theres alot of speculation - i believe the amplifier can do whatever you want depending on your use, style, and preference.

but 4 things kill the herbert for me. A: being the live use mix in limiting how you set your amplifier up. i can take my 5150, set it and forget it - and only touch the volume for band practices. to have to set it up to a tone you might not like and that effects the amplifier so much that it wont cut through a live mix, thats a real bummer. the second thing is of course the price. damn thats more than i have in all my guitars and my 5150 together. the third thing is there is such a wide range of tonalitys that you can have a bad setup - you shouldnt have to take someone's rig and tweak it to get it to sound good. anyone should be able to plug into any amplifier and still sound like themselves without tweaking - but when the amplifier is the weak point in this scenario in mid shifts/cuts/boosts gain levels etc it really seems to get in the way. i still cant believe how badly that diezel wasnt cutting through the mix. that marshall and drums and bass rig were all over it. and finally the fourth thing - its own "vibe". im not really sure i dig how it sounded, even though it did sound pretty good on the clean crunch. it had a wierd vibe that im just not liking. and that really comes down to the taste of each player which is alright in itself.

would i own one? no. even if it was free? no. because to me, there just isnt enough positives to weigh against a 5150 to ever make a change.

i know what i use - but im also open for suggestions and always looking for the next best thing just like everyone else

unless your dave and have the best cameron marshalls on planet earth. then you dont need anything else except a large cabinet collection

-matt

 

[moltenmetalburn]

I saw Machine Head last August and Rob Flynn still uses two of them live and in the studio and it sounds awesome as hell."

Both Rob and Phil are using 5150's. Both modified for proper bias and new Output Transformers. And yes they do sound good live,but then again, those two could be playing pignose and shred your face off!

 

[steve_k]

I saw Machine Head last August and Rob Flynn still uses two of them live and in the studio and it sounds awesome as hell."

Both Rob and Phil are using 5150's. Both modified for proper bias and new Output Transformers. And yes they do sound good live,but then again, those two could be playing pignose and shred your face off!

From Sonisphere, Knebworth UK last August....

Steve

 

[mentoneman]

i'd probably use ch 2 for rhythm and leads and ch 3 for dbrootlz, or roll off the top and push the mids for fusion tone.

herbie is sweet with a nice PAF pickup. emgs are as subtle as a colonoscopy.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

Nice! Sonisphere was one of the few festivals I did not get to this year, still rocking out to the Blackening, I just wish they didn't take so many years between albums I want a new one right now!

 

[Greazygeo]

I saw Machine Head last August and Rob Flynn still uses two of them live and in the studio and it sounds awesome as hell."

Both Rob and Phil are using 5150's. Both modified for proper bias and new Output Transformers. And yes they do sound good live,but then again, those two could be playing pignose and shred your face off!

I have a bone stock 5150 and it sounds pretty killer. They don't have a hot bias for a reason. Play one on ten biased hot vs stock and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Greazygeo]

thanks for your kind words steve. as far as the mesa's go there is alot of talk about the III's and IV's with red stripes or blue stripes and of course the infamous IIC+.

sadly enough theres alot of speculation - i believe the amplifier can do whatever you want depending on your use, style, and preference.

but 4 things kill the herbert for me. A: being the live use mix in limiting how you set your amplifier up. i can take my 5150, set it and forget it - and only touch the volume for band practices. to have to set it up to a tone you might not like and that effects the amplifier so much that it wont cut through a live mix, thats a real bummer. the second thing is of course the price. damn thats more than i have in all my guitars and my 5150 together. the third thing is there is such a wide range of tonalitys that you can have a bad setup - you shouldnt have to take someone's rig and tweak it to get it to sound good. anyone should be able to plug into any amplifier and still sound like themselves without tweaking - but when the amplifier is the weak point in this scenario in mid shifts/cuts/boosts gain levels etc it really seems to get in the way. i still cant believe how badly that diezel wasnt cutting through the mix. that marshall and drums and bass rig were all over it. and finally the fourth thing - its own "vibe". im not really sure i dig how it sounded, even though it did sound pretty good on the clean crunch. it had a wierd vibe that im just not liking. and that really comes down to the taste of each player which is alright in itself.


-matt

So you heard this amp one time, with one player and his setup / settings and can generalize that they will all sound that way? There are many factors other than just the amp involved, some gigs are great sound while others are not. Do you know for a fact that every gig your rig cuts thru the mix?

I don't see how you can expect to plug into someone elses rig and not have to tweak the settings to get it the way you like it. Granted there are some amps that no matter what, I can't get to sound good.

Yes there seem to be alot of options on the Herbert. For some is a plus, others a minus.

 

[van hellion]

im not gonna make a long list by any means so here are the 2 main points.

noise- something had to be a ground issue because peter crams more gain into the quitest heads ihave ever heard.

lead channel- the 3rd channel is amazing, i may be in the minority but i get the exact lead tone i want, dark thick with enough umph and bite to get through the mix. actually my lead tone is the favorite sound i get from my diezels. different strokes for different folks i guess.

and as far as price goes, yeah they cost alot here, but there are guys over seas paying stupid insane amounts of coin for american made products, like mesa's. its the shipping thing not peter over pricing his heads

just my 2 cents

A Wood