So the EVH forum isn't all a-buzz over this???

[thegame]

I kind of agree here. With these super old vintage plexi style circuits, it almost seems like the amp is just about the least impactful thing in the chain, or maybe it's better to say it's the most "easily influenced by everything else in the chain" element in the chain. The guitar, pickups, speakers and mic'ing, and how you play make all the difference in the world with these amps.

Very well put. I’m speculating a bit but it seems the Uber Ultra is quite the opposite of this. Various clips of the UU by different people playing different guitars are shockingly similar.

 

[Ben Waylin]

I kind of agree here. With these super old vintage plexi style circuits, it almost seems like the amp is just about the least impactful thing in the chain, or maybe it's better to say it's the most "easily influenced by everything else in the chain" thing in the chain. The guitar, pickups, speakers and mic'ing, and how you play make all the difference in the world with these amps.

True dat.

That "early EVH signal chain" is bizarre, and critical to get even close to that tone.

Not to mention, variac'ing the thing down insanely low without re-biasing - and pulling two output tubes.

 

[CrazyNutz]

His clone sounds good, but I can hear the nuance in his original that the clone doesn't have.

Agree.

It's freakng close, but missing the last 10% that makes the 68 plexi magical.

 

[Ben Waylin]

Agree.

It's freakng close, but missing the last 10% that makes the 68 plexi magical.

Fish Paper.

 

[phil b]

From what I got from George's Long Youtube vid on this amp is one of the reasons he did the VH thing is because he used an analyzer to duplicate the amp. Over time values drift..ect and with an analyzer and if he built an exact replica of Eds amp with the same exact spec'ed components there is no guarantee if will sound exactly the same. With an analyzer you could actually see if you are exact or in the ballpark, and with the right amp modder/builder knowing what to tweak or change you can eventually duplicate the original. George has to use brand new tubes to design the head whereas who knows how old the tubes are and.or what source did George use to Analyze the amp.

I will hold off until he gets someone to do some decent Ed type clips before I make a true judgement. Is it exact from what everyone is used to hearing Eds tone? I dont hear that now... I think some of Bill Landrys stuff sounded closer, but he also does Eddie a bit better. I guess we'll see....

 

[harddriver]

Going back and reading the old MetroAmp forum nowadays, it's pretty amazing how much those guys had wrong about getting that early VH tone.



If you go and try what this guy here is doing, it all makes sense.

I don't know if I would completely throw everyone over at Metroamp under the bus, I don't think they got it wrong per se' but they investigated almost every theory out there trying things out in real time, throwing some stuff out and keeping others, like Ralle and others.

Mike Soldano and Matt Bruck also stated that Ed had a Marshall Super Bass that had a 25uf cap on V2A and supposed that was the wooden headbox which Dave Friedman has confirmed. It was also suggested that the wooden headbox super bas was converted to run as a dedicated power amp prior to Ed using the H&H power amps.

Fully agree here about the Gaustad videos.... You want Ed tone from a plexi.... here's your step by step guide in Gaustad's VH journey. It's also been speculated by a very well know builder that 12301 also had a Jose Master installed since it was the club amp from the Rose palace. Now that makes sense with the plastic shaft pot on the back that you see on VHII.

Can it still sound great without it, sure it can, it all depends on what your ears tell you and what you like IMHO and YMMV.

 

[harddriver]

I’ve experimented with the mid pot and fat cap mods and they make a big difference but certain amps seem to take to those mods better than others. I recently put the fat cap on a switch and I go back and forth with it. With slight overwound PAF types it’s ON but with hotter pickups I prefer no cap there.

He could get closer if it was variac’d down…and got someone else to demo the amp. EVH always had sweet tuning…that LP not so much. That makes the distortion sound different.

But that Mk II Metro does sound great. Just getting that close to an original ‘68 is an accomplishment…and two modes.

I always hated the 330uf fat cap on V2a myself.... I tried to love it and I just couldn't.

 

[Ben Waylin]

I don't know if I would completely throw everyone over at Metroamp under the bus

I meant everyone except you, of course.

?‍

 

[harddriver]

I meant everyone except you, of course.

?‍

There was alot of great people over there that contributed alot to the VH1 tone search, Ralle, BMF5150, Rgalpin, George M even Rockstah before he freaked out and deleted all of his posts to hide his supposed VH1 tone secret he thought was going to make him alot of money.

If you have never read the Robin L threads..... you're missing a good time IMHO with alot of good information in there, even if many people said the guy was a hoax, but I still maintain he seemed to have some first hand knowledge about the VH1 tour.

 

[Ben Waylin]

There was alot of great people over there that contributed alot to the VH1 tone search, Ralle, BMF5150, Rgalpin, George M even Rockstah before he freaked out and deleted all of his posts to hide his supposed VH1 tone secret he thought was going to make him alot of money.

If you have never read the Robin L threads..... you're missing a good time IMHO with alot of good information in there, even if many people said the guy was a hoax, but I still maintain he seemed to have some first hand knowledge about the VH1 tour.

I was reading the Robin L threads in real time, as they were being posted, and I was irritated with Mark A. because he kept tryna shut the guy down instead of just letting him talk.

Mark and Phil kept trying to act as "gatekeepers" when they should have just listened to what the guy was saying.

 

[harddriver]

Agree.

It's freakng close, but missing the last 10% that makes the 68 plexi magical.

It does sound close as his Metroplex MK1 did. There are some 67-69 Marshall's that just have that magic mojo for whatever reason, I tend to think it's mostly the transformers myself and then the spec's of the components and then there's the fairy dust factor as well.......

I had a 1970 50 watt Super lead in 1997 that would not break up for shit, it was the cleanest sounding Marshall I ever heard. This was long before I got into working on amps, I wish I had kept it now.

 

[harddriver]

Ossie explores some cool tangents as well as Gaustad.

 

[Ben Waylin]

Ossie explores some cool tangents as well as Gaustad.

Yeah, I've talked with him thru e-mail.

He's very a cool dude !

 

[SpiderWars]

I always hated the 330uf fat cap on V2a myself.... I tried to love it and I just couldn't.

I recently tried both a 470ohm and 820ohm resistors in series with the fat cap and I think it helped in my case. That switch I referred to above actually just changes the series resistor with the cap. OFF is a 10k resistor and ON is a 470ohm resistor. So it’s never actually just the fat cap.

 

[SpiderWars]

It does sound close as his Metroplex MK1 did. There are some 67-69 Marshall's that just have that magic mojo for whatever reason, I tend to think it's mostly the transformers myself and then the spec's of the components and then there's the fairy dust factor as well.......

My ’69 build has lots of gain and is easy and just-right-squishy to play and just has it. My ‘68 build as well as a few real 70’s are just commonly good. That last 10% that I can’t explain.

 

[CrazyNutz]

It does sound close as his Metroplex MK1 did. There are some 67-69 Marshall's that just have that magic mojo for whatever reason, I tend to think it's mostly the transformers myself and then the spec's of the components and then there's the fairy dust factor as well.......

I had a 1970 50 watt Super lead in 1997 that would not break up for shit, it was the cleanest sounding Marshall I ever heard. This was long before I got into working on amps, I wish I had kept it now.

Yeah, it could be different components, and different values. We know they would use whatever they had on hand to get amps out the doors.

You also cannot discount the break-in, well played, gigged hard factor. I had an old ampeg 4x12 that I gigged hard for 10 years. I later gave it to my niece after 10 years of storage. She kept ranting, and raving how much better it sounded compared to her other cabs. The jack started giving her problems at one point so I told her to bring it by so I could fix. OMG it was a tone monster when I tested the fixed jack. So much so, I tracked down another exact cab. However It did not have the MOJO at all ?

 

[sideburns]

Well the Metro Plex I have is nearly to much amp for me. If George is saying the new ones sound better than what I currently own they must be ridiculously good sounding. Hope he sells a lot of them.

 

[GtarLover]

I hear what many are saying...
No one will be Edward because they own ANY amp. Edward had "his" tone, and amps are fickle beasts.
Also, I recently watched the videos of the new Boss EVH dual delay and HOLY Crap, dry, the amp sounds MEH, throw on the pedal and it's literally night and day. This pedal has wet/dry/wet settings and the ACTUAL settings from Eddie's rig, the SDE-3000's he used forever.
Point is, there's more than the amp going into Edward's "full sound."

Regardless, I dig George's amps and he's creating "a thing."
Wishing him the best

 

[marvcus]

I hear what many are saying...
No one will be Edward because they own ANY amp. Edward had "his" tone, and amps are fickle beasts.
Also, I recently watched the videos of the new Boss EVH dual delay and HOLY Crap, dry, the amp sounds MEH, throw on the pedal and it's literally night and day. This pedal has wet/dry/wet settings and the ACTUAL settings from Eddie's rig, the SDE-3000's he used forever.
Point is, there's more than the amp going into Edward's "full sound."

Regardless, I dig George's amps and he's creating "a thing."
Wishing him the best

Case in point Mammoth/Wolfs new track with the Frankie and 12301 Marshall. Parts in place and sounds great, but his hands are not Ed’s hands, for sure. Great player, but he is not copping his dads tone even with the same guitar and amp.

 

[harddriver]

After all my research on Metro and after Metro I settled on specs similar to the Friedman specs without the 330uf V2A cap. It gave more gain but I felt it was always too bloated although some people seem to make it work just fine but I settled on a 25uf V2a cap. I built a 69 NOS 12301 spec'd clone with Iskras/NOS mustards with modern iron, Metro Dagnall C1998 and a Magnetic Components PT and the only difference was I used a .68uf NOS mustard cap on V2A a few years ago and that amp at wall voltage with a PEC Lar/Mar PPIMV through a THD hotplate at -8/-12 sounded just as good as my 68 Ed spec NOS Metro build variaced and cranked. My 72 also sounds just as good with the stock .68uf on V2A so the 330uf is not necessary IMHO.

Here is my 69 Nos Build(first two clips) from 2019 for comparison to the Metroplex clips, the last three clips is my 68 Metro Ed spec being reamped with a stock 1972 Superlead ( exactly per the Robin L descriptions) through two Scumback loaded M65 cabinets from 2011. They all get in the ballpark of core Ed tone, no real magic the only thing added is a Boss GE7 with with a minimal flat mids boost and a Clinch EPPRE. The 68 clips is a vintage MXR 6band, (same flat mids boost maybe 5-6DB) and Clinch EPPRE both clips using a 9K Seymour Duncan 78 model pickup wound by MJ in 2009, guitar is a Northern Ash Frankie body by Musikraft from 2009 as well. The effects signal chain IMHO is the main factor in the VH1 gain/tone as well as a Mighty Mite 1400 or 1300 ceramic pickup depending on what you like. I still love my SD 78 model for most things ED after all these years.
Here are the specs for those interested on the 69 NOS build amp.
1969 Marshall Superlead 100 watt Replica amp, NOS Iskras, NOS Mustard caps, Metro 1998C Dagnall clone OPT, Metro Dagnall clone choke, Classictone 40-18053, EH6CA7's, V1 Tung Sol, V2 Ruby HGAC5, V3 NOS SylvaniaTHD hotplate set to -4DbMarshall 1982B Celestion Heritage 12H-30 55hz speakersClinch EP-PRE EP3 preamp pedalBoss GE7 7 band Equalizer pedalMusikraft Northern Ash Franky Seymour Duncan 78 model P/UCallaham steel fender style bridgeMusikraft Maple neck with brass nut Schaller locking tuners