Speaker Cab Woes

[FourT6and2]

I'm having issues with one of my cabs, a standard Bogner 4x12.

It originally came loaded with G12M-25 Greenbacks. Sounded great with my amps. Punchy, plenty of low-end for my needs, woody, growl. Not fizzy or harsh or thin sounding.

At one point, I swapped the speakers for original G12-65s and used it that way for about a 2 years. A few months ago, I swapped the 65s over to another Bogner cab and put the original Greenbacks back in. But now they sound very thin and harsh. No low-end. Not punchy. Very "present" like the speaker is right in your ear. Very "beamy" so to speak.

Everything checks out in terms of phase and the wiring/soldering looks good as far as I can tell. Both the cab and the speakers were shipped across the country at one point. I wonder if some of the speakers got damaged? Or maybe the frames got warped or something?

Could be my imagination? I dunno. But it really does sound awful now.

 

[Racerxrated]

If the cab lost some of its seal by being shipped you could try putting some type of insulation inside, like carpet foam on the back and sides...did this to an old Marshall cab and it improved low end and made it more focused..if that makes sense...

 

[FourT6and2]

If the cab lost some of its seal by being shipped you could try putting some type of insulation inside, like carpet foam on the back and sides...did this to an old Marshall cab and it improved low end and made it more focused..if that makes sense...

I don't think the cab lost any seal. Trying to take the back panel off is pretty hard. Have to let the cab sit near a heater overnight with the screws out to get the back off. So the seal seems pretty good.

I wonder if one or more of the speakers is crapping out or something? Just really fizzy and thin. Maybe I overtightened the mounting screws? Or under-tightened them? I tried adjusting, but didn't help.

 

[blackie13]

Check the wirring again...maybe out of phase issue...

 

[blackba]

Are you sure you didn't over torque the screws on the speakers and tweak the frame. This has happened to me before.

 

[FourT6and2]

Check the wirring again...maybe out of phase issue...

Will do. Will also try that 9V battery trick.

 

[FourT6and2]

Are you sure you didn't over torque the screws on the speakers and tweak the frame. This has happened to me before.

I might have. I tried not to. I usually hand-tighten to the frame. then do another full turn with a screwdriver in an X pattern like you would when mounting a wheel on a car.

If I did torque a frame or two, how would I know? And would you fix it?

 

[tubortski]

Are you sure you didn't over torque the screws on the speakers and tweak the frame. This has happened to me before.

I might have. I tried not to. I usually hand-tighten to the frame. then do another full turn with a screwdriver in an X pattern like you would when mounting a wheel on a car.

If I did torque a frame or two, how would I know? And would you fix it?

My only guess is putting the speaker face down on a true flat surface to see if it rolls around or stays put. If you find an area that was bent by over tightening, install backward and carefully over tighten in the opposite direction to correct it.

 

[FourT6and2]

Are you sure you didn't over torque the screws on the speakers and tweak the frame. This has happened to me before.

I might have. I tried not to. I usually hand-tighten to the frame. then do another full turn with a screwdriver in an X pattern like you would when mounting a wheel on a car.

If I did torque a frame or two, how would I know? And would you fix it?

My only guess is putting the speaker face down on a true flat surface to see if it rolls around or stays put. If you find an area that was bent by over tightening, install backward and carefully over tighten in the opposite direction to correct it.

Cool, thanks. Will try it.

But how does a frame get bent to the point where you could see it on a flat surface... if the surface you mount the speaker to (the baffle) is flat to begin with?

 

[tubortski]

Not something I have tried, but would do if I was in your shoes.

Picture the speaker face down on a table or counter top where you could eye it up horizontally. Also, consider if the gasket has been compressed evenly or not.

 

[jsp]

Sounds like something more obvious or major than just something bending or losing seal. I'd check each speaker individually, and go from there.

 

[gibson08]

I think you have all diff amps now? Maybe that's it. I would still double check wiring, connections, phase. Should still sound good with something you have now.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

A 1/16" bend in a frame can warp the cone/coil causing a thin tone. And if the cab or speakers got dropped hard enough the magnet could shift on the frame, causing the same problem (pinched voice coil). There's also the wiring out of phase of just one speaker will make the entire cab sound like A$$, too.

I'm not sure what input jack (stereo/switch, single/mono) setup you have, but I have mono jack wiring diagrams on my site under the FAQ menu. You might want to look at those if they apply.

As for the rest, you'll need to take the speakers out one by one to check/test/etc.

Sorry.

 

[lowmantotempole]

Noob here.

My guess would be... Maybe you are used to the tones from the G12-65s. I've actually had that happen myself. I played a Bad Cat V30 loaded cab for the longest time, switched to a stock V30 loaded cab for the last few months. When I went back to the Bad Cat cab it just wasn't doing it for me like it used to.

Also, have you changed pickups, strings, or tubes? Just trying to put everything into perspective.

 

[FourT6and2]

I think you have all diff amps now? Maybe that's it. I would still double check wiring, connections, phase. Should still sound good with something you have now.

Yeah, I definitely have all different amps now. But I used this cab/speaker combo with a Diezel VH4, Ceriatone Chupacabra, and my Metro Plexi clone. And the amps I have now are still in the same ballpark. I did try the cab out with the Metro clone after I put the Greenbacks back in and it didn't sound the same as before. But maybe it's just been so long...

But I remember Greenbacks sounding pretty awesome with high-gain. And now they're just a fizzy mess, regardless of amp.

 

[FourT6and2]

A 1/16" bend in a frame can warp the cone/coil causing a thin tone. And if the cab or speakers got dropped hard enough the magnet could shift on the frame, causing the same problem (pinched voice coil). There's also the wiring out of phase of just one speaker will make the entire cab sound like A$$, too.

I'm not sure what input jack (stereo/switch, single/mono) setup you have, but I have mono jack wiring diagrams on my site under the FAQ menu. You might want to look at those if they apply.

As for the rest, you'll need to take the speakers out one by one to check/test/etc.

Sorry.

Thanks Jim!

This is a Bogner standard 4x12. Single mono input jack. It's wired the same way as it was when I first got it, which the standard parallel/series method you show on your site. I have two Bogner cabs. The other one has the G12-65s in it. I swapped them into the other cab so I could put the original Greenbacks back into the cab they came in. All the wiring matches up. I will check phase with a battery when I have a minute. But if the magnets shifted or other damage, I probably wouldn't be able to identify it.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Thanks Jim!

But if the magnets shifted or other damage, I probably wouldn't be able to identify it.

You're welcome.

If the wiring looks identical between the cabs (and the other one sounds ok), then you probably have one of the following:

1) Shifted magnet, which pinches and rubs the voice coil and makes it sound thin / raspy.
2) A bent frame causing voice coil rub, and makes it sound thin / raspy.
3) Overtightened speaker mounting bolts, which cause #2 above.

Past that, unless the voice coil was overheated and is unwraveling inside the voice coil gap of the speaker (I've seen it happen), you've had some bad handling and damages occurred.

Time to pull them out one by one and test the phase, and with a small amp to see how they sound. PITA, but it's the only sure way to do it.

 

[FourT6and2]

Alright, thanks! Will probably get to it next weekend.

 

[bubbastain]

A few months ago I purchased a used cab from a non local GC. When it arrived at the store(pretty poor boxing) there was a loud thump when we turned the cab upside down. When I opened it up, there was the whole magnet assembly from one of the speakers on the bottom of the cab. Just completely came off. I didn't realize they could shift or even fall off.

 

[FourT6and2]

Well the cab was shipped with different speakers (the G12-65s). the Greenbacks were shipped separately. They were all individually packed in boxes. Then put together in one larger box. When I installed them, I didn't notice anything amiss. But then again, the green plastic covers are on them so I can't really see the magnets.