Thoughts on the small amp trend

[1big1]

you're quite right about an amps voicing. it seems everybody has a different idea when it comes to that.. and that's good imho.. but it can also be perplexing. if i'm the only guitar player i may choose to use an amp that's voiced quite differently than if there are multiple players or instruments. that's why i own more than one amp.. one cab and one guitar.
then you have guys like ed and andy wood who could make a one string uke through a gorilla amp sound good.

 

[stephen sawall]

I totally agree

About MOAAH or the Bass or something else or all of above ?

 

[billboogie]

That's a great example (Tool's production). I totaly agree, and yes MOAAH should be making amps, great look to them and if the tone is there
(clips?) you got some winners.

 

[shredhead666]

Depends on the style of music. 3-piece bands it probably doesn't matter much. I used to have a voodoo witchdoctor running EL84s at 18 watts and it was BEASTLY, even in a band with another guitarist using a marshall DSL100 half stack. Currently I use an Egnater Rebel 20 through a matching 2x12 and it is also screaming loud. Certainly loud enough to gig with. Bear in mind when you double output wattage, you're only adding 3db of perceived volume. Hell, I've heard 5 watt amps when run through a 4x12 that sound like a wall of doom.

 

[1big1]

i heard a tidbit on the news the other day that may or may not relate to this thread too. for the first time in the planets history more people live in cities than in the country. add to that the boom in personal recording studios and you have quite a niche for that type of product.
thankfully i still live where i COULD crank a nmv marshall to ten and the only person who would call the cops would be my wife.

 

[stratotone]

Low wattage doesn't mean low volume. I built a 3 watt rackmount power amp for a friend of mine, plugged a preamp into it and ran it through a 4x12. My wife heard me before she pulled in the driveway. It was loud as hell!

There is no such thing as a tube amp that you can just dime without some sort of attenuation or power scaling. I built a Gilmore Jr kit amp (Gerhart amps, anyone hear from Gary lately?) that was 1 or 2 watts, used a preamp type tube as the power section. LOUD through a 4x12!

Here's another example - the Zvex amp, had one of those. Yep, very loud through a 4x12 cab. Take a fender champ which is actually a little on the loud side even with the pissant stock speaker - plug it into a 4x12 and it's suddenly 10 feet tall and bulletproof.

Pete

 

[1big1]

that's very true. it's not how many watts an amp is putting out.. it's how many db's. i just got a pair of monitors for my home use studio that are rated at 1 watt at one meter= 92db. thanks for correcting me on that.

 

[MOAAH]

MOAAH .... we all want you too make amps again.

As far as the bass goes ....
It is all about mix and what kind of bass player you have. The bass player I work with the most plays full frequency like a piano.
Often I am below or above him. I am not a big fan of bass players that just stick to the bottom.
When using a amp that has a lot of bass I almost always mix it with a amp the cuts in the upper midrange like a Marshall.
When using the traditional shelving method of mixing like you guys are talking about you are completely right.
For a real world example of what I am talking about a lot of the band Tool's work has the bass on top of the guitar.
I do not use the bass heavy guitar sound all the time .... but it does have it's place when used right. Most people do not use it right as far as I can tell.

Thanks man, but it just can't happen. After my heart attacks even the smell of solder makes me sick these days. Training others is just a pain, they all seem to end up moving onto something else, and so I end up wasting time.

As for Bass and tone, I guess in the end everyone has their own taste, and tone is certainly in the ear of the beholder. One thing for sure, I prefer 3 piece bands when I do sound, like Seattle's: Too Slim and the Tophat Trio. That was one group who's sound was so refined and pure that when I mixed for them it hardly needed any tweeks. They were the first band to evar use my amps live, too bad the one time I recorded them it started to rain and we only had plastic tarps. Plastic is horrible for reflecting sound and causing feedback, in an attempt to compensate I ended up with too much compression:
Anywho, a small taste my first guitar amp, bass amp and speaker cabs, live with my fav Seattle blues band:
https://soundclick.com/share?songid=6215437
Theses days I profess, for a very few recording pros, to design amps that sound like acoustic guitars. Super great for Jazz, and this slide guitar dual:
https://soundclick.com/share?songid=6272188
That is a 8watt amp with a Ampeg based preamp design.

 

[billboogie]

Stratotone. When I play out I am able to pretty much turn both amps between 7-10 on my masters. No power scaling, no attenuation. I can't do that when my DC5 is carrying it's 6L6's (50 watts at that point) So I'm a little confused about your comment because I do dime my amps and volume is not an issue either way. It's possible I misunderstood you too. Just got back from a reaming from the Tax Man and my mind is a little pre-occupied about our next move. Sorry for the rant.

 

[MOAAH]

That's a great example (Tool's production). I totaly agree, and yes MOAAH should be making amps, great look to them and if the tone is there
(clips?) you got some winners.

Thanks again man
I play rock but after years of building amps I found mine seem to work best with Blues and Jazz.
That said, here's a short clip of what I think is a pretty cool Indy rock sound out of Dallas TX, using one of my 5wt poweramps with my Metalhead preamp*.

(Martin Webb – all rights reserved 2005)
*Slightly modded Superlead circuit.

 

[MOAAH]

There is no such thing as a tube amp that you can just dime without some sort of attenuation or power scaling.

One day I should send you my superlead mod and a 1/2 watt SE 6DJ8 poweramp, definitely no need for attenuation

What I found with low watt amps is you need least 2 watts to drive a good guitar speaker and still have decent lows and cleans. For distortion however, 1/2 a watt is amazing.

PS: I think you'd be impressed the way my low powered amps look inside today,

but then they don't cost 130US any more, nor do I build them so much lately

 

[1big1]

Stratotone. When I play out I am able to pretty much turn both amps between 7-10 on my masters. No power scaling, no attenuation. I can't do that when my DC5 is carrying it's 6L6's (50 watts at that point) So I'm a little confused about your comment because I do dime my amps and volume is not an issue either way. It's possible I misunderstood you too. Just got back from a reaming from the Tax Man and my mind is a little pre-occupied about our next move. Sorry for the rant.

my tax reaming is next saturday. i'll have a better idea where my gear budget stands after that.
i've got some other gear upgrades in mind this year as well and only so much capital to work with.. so prioritizing will take precedence. but that's life.

 

[stephen sawall]

Enjoyed the clips. What it really comes down to is dB are not watts. They are different measurements.

 

[stratotone]

Stratotone. When I play out I am able to pretty much turn both amps between 7-10 on my masters. No power scaling, no attenuation. I can't do that when my DC5 is carrying it's 6L6's (50 watts at that point) So I'm a little confused about your comment because I do dime my amps and volume is not an issue either way. It's possible I misunderstood you too. Just got back from a reaming from the Tax Man and my mind is a little pre-occupied about our next move. Sorry for the rant.

I meant for bedroom use, regarding diming amps. At least if you have neighbors or a wife. I gigged once with my Trainwreck clone (4xEL84) and was able to dime it, but I was running a single 1x12 cab with a fairly inefficient speaker. If I was using my Bogner 4x12 there would have been people dead at fifty paces.

Pete

 

[stratotone]

1/2 watt is still loud through a good cab. Heck, one of those solid state smokey amps are pretty loud into a 4x12!

Of course, I mean for most people with others who live nearby or have spouses

pete

There is no such thing as a tube amp that you can just dime without some sort of attenuation or power scaling.

One day I should send you my superlead mod and a 1/2 watt SE 6DJ8 poweramp, definitely no need for attenuation

What I found with low watt amps is you need least 2 watts to drive a good guitar speaker and still have decent lows and cleans. For distortion however, 1/2 a watt is amazing.

PS: I think you'd be impressed the way my low powered amps look inside today,

but then they don't cost 130US any more, nor do I build them so much lately

 

[Mailman1971]

Still got my main amp coming.......

 

[MOAAH]

1/2 watt is still loud through a good cab. Heck, one of those solid state smokey amps are pretty loud into a 4x12!

I've made amps using the 357 chip, I assume that's what's inside a smokey amp but I can promise you that a 1/2 watt SS amp sounds no where as cool as the same power with a tube. You can make a 1/2 watter with both sides of a 12at7, but the 6DJ8 is far superior.
Maybe give it a try someday, when you gots nothin' else to do

Of course, I mean for most people with others who live nearby or have spouses

To be sure I'm a block star in my neighborhood. I do old classics but with a modern edge and have everyone from elderly ladies(70+) rolling up their windows to young girls sitting in their convertible diggin' the grove when I practice.
Lived in the same house for 2 decades and I'm still waiting for my first noise complaint. Every time I hear a bang at the door I thinks it's time, but it turns out to be just another party invite

Enjoyed the clips.

Very cool, thanks. I's purdy happy when that acoustic blues tune hit # 37 outta 16,924 songs currently listed in sound click under blues.

 

[1big1]

what started me thinking about db's was those old personal protection sirens that women were buying back in the 80's or so. one 9v battery. push the button and it wailed at about 110 db's. my wife had one. that little thing was loud.
i think i've got my gigging rigs pretty well covered as far as what options i have available. it would be nice to find something that could pull double duty. i've sort of been waiting to see what the price point on a tweaker head is. i've got a couple of '52 blue bells and a couple of mid 60's utah's that i think would work well with a head like that. since i have more time than money i can take my time making a decision as to what i need and what i want to look at. for me that's a good thing.
i also think it's a good thing that there are many options for folks to choose from these days. i've got a list in my head of what i'd like a small amp to do for me. as i get older it gets harder to find people my age who still like to crank it up and go out and play.. so a home use studio will probably figure in there somewhere. i've been slowly taking notes about what's lacking for my home studio and have been searching sources for upgrades i can make that don't break the bank. still got to get our son graduated from tech school in may too. the wife wants a greenhouse.. i want padded rails for my boat trailer.. need to fix the garden tiller.. etc.. etc..etc.
lord knows i don't need another 4x12 cab.. but i found a really beat up slant one for 150 locally. the sales guy couldn't tell a lot about it. he knew it was 8 ohms and thought it was loaded with eminence speakers. he said all the speakers worked.. but wasn't sure how old it was or who made it. it looked like an older randall cab to me. no way of knowing without pulling the back off and looking for something that identifies it if possible. i told the sales guy i love stuff like that because you can't possibly do anything to it that hasn't already been done before. load it up with some vintage speakers or not.. partially open the back or not.. throw a tweaker head on top? who knows? four bills for a tweaker head could do it for me.

 

[dicky sofa]

I'm really in love with the VOX AV4TV's. I've been playing slide through the 1x10 combo and it sounds great. I run the head version through a Bogner Cube and oh my but it do sound mighty fine. And this shit takes pedals like a mutha!

Bring out your dead...

 

[MOAAH]

as i get older it gets harder to find people my age who still like to crank it up

Dang, if you ever get up this way(Vancouver BC) I'll introduce you to a pile of folks that know age is just a number and you're only as old as you feel.
I'm old enough to remember JFK speeches, but still my motto is: Loud and Proud.

Rock on,
Rob