Tone is in your Hand?

[Zachman]

I don't assume I can't get Ed's 'tone' playing through Ed's gear. I can get it playing through my gear.

So, the gear changing-- made his tone different? Got it! Thanks for agreeing with my assertion, that the tone comes from the gear, being played by a player-- Not a hand or a finger.

No offense but you by no means nail Ed's tone. You couldn't even playing his rig.

Sorry.

No worries, my life doesn't revolve around being able to nail it to any given albums or live performance's spec within a .1% margin w/ a spectrum analyzer for any reason, but the debate from your end seems disingenuous, as you've not addressed any of the substance that I brought up. You instead, seem to wish to stay focused in the subjective, and I understand exactly why.

I did actually have the opportunity to purchase one of Ed's 5150 touring rigs, but I only bring it up to address you saying I couldn't even play Ed's rig. Kind of amusing, as I could have bought it. You probably are suggesting that I suck, so couldn't play through his rig, and that's fine too. Be happy

 

[ejecta]

I don't assume I can't get Ed's 'tone' playing through Ed's gear. I can get it playing through my gear.

So, the gear changing-- made his tone different? Got it! Thanks for agreeing with my assertion, that the tone comes from the gear, being played by a player-- Not a hand or a finger.

No offense but you by no means nail Ed's tone. You couldn't even playing his rig.

Sorry.

No worries, my life doesn't revolve around being able to nail it to any given albums or live performance's spec within a .1% margin w/ a spectrum analyzer for any reason, but the debate from your end seems disingenuous, as you've not addressed any of the substance that I brought up. You instead, seem to wish to stay focused in the subjective, and I understand exactly why.

I did actually have the opportunity to purchase one of Ed's 5150 touring rigs, but I only bring it up to address you saying I couldn't even play Ed's rig. Kind of amusing, as I could have bought it. You probably are suggesting that I suck, so couldn't play through his rig, and that's fine too. Be happy

I never implied nor suggested anything about you or your playing that you are proposing. The fact still remains that if you played a rig whether it's EVH, Mark Knopfler, Ty Tabor, or mine..... the tone would be different than if those guys or I played our respective rigs. I've heard it happen with my own ears plus I have heard guys like Nuno did in that video say the same thing that when they played through a rig of someone who's tone they admired... they were disappointed because the tone changed and it didn't the same.

 

[Mailman1971]

I heard its getting so top secret that not even Eddie can get his EVH tone thru his gear.
Its that secretive.
He is being routed thru a mystery amp.

 

[Zachman]

I don't assume I can't get Ed's 'tone' playing through Ed's gear. I can get it playing through my gear.

So, the gear changing-- made his tone different? Got it! Thanks for agreeing with my assertion, that the tone comes from the gear, being played by a player-- Not a hand or a finger.

No offense but you by no means nail Ed's tone. You couldn't even playing his rig.

Sorry.

No worries, my life doesn't revolve around being able to nail it to any given albums or live performance's spec within a .1% margin w/ a spectrum analyzer for any reason, but the debate from your end seems disingenuous, as you've not addressed any of the substance that I brought up. You instead, seem to wish to stay focused in the subjective, and I understand exactly why.

I did actually have the opportunity to purchase one of Ed's 5150 touring rigs, but I only bring it up to address you saying I couldn't even play Ed's rig. Kind of amusing, as I could have bought it. You probably are suggesting that I suck, so couldn't play through his rig, and that's fine too. Be happy

I never implied nor suggested anything about you or your playing that you are proposing. The fact still remains that if you played a rig whether it's EVH, Mark Knopfler, Ty Tabor, or mine..... the tone would be different than if those guys or I played our respective rigs. I've heard it happen with my own ears plus I have heard guys like Nuno did in that video say the same thing that when they played through a rig of someone who's tone they admired... they were disappointed because the tone changed and it didn't the same.

My point is pretty simple: If tone were in the hands, Air Guitar would be the sum total of anyone's rig.

If you take Ed, and plug him into a different rig, or have the sound man hit the suck buttons on his mix etc... the tone changes (NOT possible if the tone were in the hands). No amount of magic tone in anyone's fingers will be able to change that reality, because the tone isn't in the hands, only technique is, which does impact tone, but it doesn't end there. It starts the process, and the gear continues the process.

Tones starts w/ hands playing an instrument, and ends in the brain of the listener, hearing the instrument's tone-- being produced. Guys like Dweizel, Mark A did a pretty convincing job creating the tone of someone elses fingers, imo. So, some are clearly better at that than others.

This is close enough for me:

 

[Rogue]

I find it interesting some interpret the phrase "tone is the hands" to mean the flesh and bone of someone's hand, as opposed to the technique, touch, and style of an individual player.

 

[Ventura]

Tone is a culmination of many variables... But I do believe the guitarists' personal approach to the instrument is key - which can be said - is the hands.

I cannot tolerate any more talk about EVHs tone and the brown sound. Seriously. It's getting to be slit-wrist material

HI ZACHMAN!!!!!!! PM incoming...been a while

Uncle Mojo

 

[ejecta]

I find it interesting some interpret the phrase "tone is the hands" to mean the flesh and bone of someone's hand, as opposed to the technique, touch, and style of an individual player.

Well not only that but due the very nature of how an electric guitar rig functions physically... physics from the body and hand have to play part. More on to your point... where you press the string between the frets effects the tone. How far up or down between the bridge and neck. How hard you fret. How hard you pick. Pick angle. Vibrato. Pick or hammer on. Finger pick. All that plays a part in tone.

 

[ejecta]

Tone is a culmination of many variables... But I do believe the guitarists' personal approach to the instrument is key - which can be said - is the hands.

I cannot tolerate any more talk about EVHs tone and the brown sound. Seriously. It's getting to be slit-wrist material

Well said.

 

[Zachman]

I find it interesting some interpret the phrase "tone is the hands" to mean the flesh and bone of someone's hand, as opposed to the technique, touch, and style of an individual player.

Well not only that but due the very nature of how an electric guitar rig functions physically... physics from the body and hand have to play part. More on to your point... where you press the string between the frets effects the tone. How far up or down between the bridge and neck. How hard you fret. How hard you pick. Pick angle. Vibrato. Pick or hammer on. Finger pick. All that plays a part in tone.

From the beginning-- I've said that the player affects the net tone result 'the gear' is capable of making happen, assuming the gear has that in it to be coaxed out, from the outset.

Good tone, is only good tone in context. Whether or not someone plays something interesting enough to listen to in the 1st place-- regardless of tone, is another thing.

 

[stephen sawall]

If you ever seen a dozen or more guitar players play the same riffs on the same rig with nothing changed but who is playing the guitar you could see how different the tone is.

I have ..... It can be extremely different.

What your describing is technique and approach .
Change the players rig and his same technique and approach will sound different .
A Fender will not crunch and scream like a Marshall amp .

You deleted my last line that covers using different gear for some reason ?

It is always going to be a combination of the player and the equipment that gets the final results. Just as different gear has it's own sounds and tone... So do different players.

I really noticed this when guitar players have tried out for my bands and saw one after a other about 40 players in a few days playing on one of my rigs. Some of them sounded vary different when playing the same material. ...

..... And obviously much of this is technique. Highgain sounds tend to hide a lot of this. Cleans and point of breakup are much more obvious. A lot of it is how dynamic the individual plays.

Give a few people a canvas and paint.... They are not going to create the same painting.

 

['63-Strat]

I think the canvas and paint analogy is a good one. I can give someone a good canvas and 3 colors and one guy can give me a masterpiece and the other something they wouldn't display at the preschool for special kids. You can argue the masterpiece was always "in there" in the materials but it's the artist that got it there.

 

[Zachman]

I think the canvas and paint analogy is a good one. I can give someone a good canvas and 3 colors and one guy can give me a masterpiece and the other something they wouldn't display at the preschool for special kids. You can argue the masterpiece was always "in there" in the materials but it's the artist that got it there.

The analogy breaks down, because the tone would be analogous to the paint colors of the picture, while the style/technique-- 'the picture' would be what the painter paints, and how they mix the colors-- combined to make the final painting. Tone and the parts being played are things worth differentiating, as anyone who engineers their music will attest, a great part can sound like crap, with the push of a button.

 

[ejecta]

I think the canvas and paint analogy is a good one. I can give someone a good canvas and 3 colors and one guy can give me a masterpiece and the other something they wouldn't display at the preschool for special kids. You can argue the masterpiece was always "in there" in the materials but it's the artist that got it there.

The analogy breaks down, because the tone would be analogous to the paint colors of the picture, while the style/technique-- 'the picture' would be what the painter paints, and how they mix the colors-- combined to make the final painting.

I tend to agree with you if the color of paint is the tone part of the analogy. There is one other thing though.... say I paint using red. No matter how I hold the brush, how hard I push the brush, or how fast I make the strokes, the size of the brush, where I paint on the canvas..... it will always paint the same red.

That IS NOT the case with playing guitar. How hard you push, pick angle, how fast, where you pick, size of pick, where you fret... that all effects tone. That's why when two different people play the same rig the tone changes.

Tone and the parts being played are things worth differentiating, as anyone who engineers their music will attest, a great part can sound like crap, with the push of a button.

I've heard not so great tone sound great in the right mix or right genre.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Tone is in the combination of wood, amp, guitar, effects. Individuality and mad skills are in the hands of the musician.

Technically, tone is created by the equipment BUT attack and how the instrument is played is affected by the master which contributes sonically to the perception of tone.

Therefore, i conclude that TONE IS IN THE HANDS

Oh, and the earth is not flat.

The End.

 

[Zachman]

I think the canvas and paint analogy is a good one. I can give someone a good canvas and 3 colors and one guy can give me a masterpiece and the other something they wouldn't display at the preschool for special kids. You can argue the masterpiece was always "in there" in the materials but it's the artist that got it there.

The analogy breaks down, because the tone would be analogous to the paint colors of the picture, while the style/technique-- 'the picture' would be what the painter paints, and how they mix the colors-- combined to make the final painting.

I tend to agree with you if the color of paint is the tone part of the analogy. There is one other thing though.... say I paint using red. No matter how I hold the brush, how hard I push the brush, or how fast I make the strokes, the size of the brush, where I paint on the canvas..... it will always paint the same red.

That IS NOT the case with playing guitar. How hard you push, pick angle, how fast, where you pick, size of pick, where you fret... that all effects tone. That's why when two different people play the same rig the tone changes.

Tone and the parts being played are things worth differentiating, as anyone who engineers their music will attest, a great part can sound like crap, with the push of a button.

I've heard not so great tone sound great in the right mix.... so yeah there's that.

Correct. Red is Red. This is why/how tone prints, modeling, and profiles work. They only deal w/ the tone, not the content or the technique nuances.

Because technique impacts tone, adjustments in gear can often remedy the variances impacted by the players touch (assuming the gear can facilitate the tonal requirements), and allow the player to produce the same hue of red, assuming that is what they're going for, even while playing a completely different part/ painting a different picture.

 

[mixohoytian]

definitely in the fingers

 

[311boogieman]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/18/john-denner-van-halen-eruption-video_n_5507829.html

That guy is amazing isn't he?

He's got good tone too.

 

[Zachman]

The test isn't having 2 guys play through the same gear. It's having the same guy play through different gear.

More like, "the tone is in the gear, and it's the finger's job to get it out", though I don't actually believe that.

I think tone starts in the brain of the player, and ends in the brain of the listener, and knowing what he's after, the player chooses the appropriate gear, sets it up, and dials it in to achieve a goal-- only possible with all facets being present. Choosing the gear appropriately is important, because the tones anyone is capable of creating w/ their fingers, is limited to the range that the gear provides.

 

['63-Strat]

But I don't think there is single person ever who has said they'd sound the same through a twin as a 5150. What many of are saying is that same rig, different players, drastically different tone. That's it. And as far as the painting goes, how you blend and use colors and shading is the analogous part IMO. YMMV. I never said gear doesn't have an effect? Obviously it does.

 

[Zachman]

But I don't think there is single person ever who has said they'd sound the same through a twin as a 5150. What many of are saying is that same rig, different players, drastically different tone. That's it. And as far as the painting goes, how you blend and use colors and shading is the analogous part IMO. YMMV. I never said gear doesn't have an effect? Obviously it does.

I get it. My point is that the phrase is clearly inadequate, similar to the phrase, "near miss" (when 2 planes almost crash into each other)-- That's a near hit, not a near miss. Anyway...

Some guys, who admit the instrument gets the tones, and their fingers can't get/don't get those tones w/ other instruments. They're not talking about 'sounding like' him-- no matter what he's playing through. "Style", or "Proficiency" on the instrument, as a substitute for "Tone" (A separate topic), is not withstanding the topic of the "Tone" being in the hands/Fingers. Style, Touch, Technique and Proficiency are in the fingers, but that is NOT Tone, though they can/do impact tone.