Under Lock and Key

[Kapo_Polenton]

And here we are modding this and that amp and Lynch was using amps modded with less gain or stock amps and pedals with EQ's to get the job done.

Great insight and info paulyc.. I was listening to wicked sensation earlier today and the tone seems thicker than the Dokken stuff which cut more. Part of that can be mic placement and mixes but very interesting to hear that it was boss overdrive into that purple plexi. I like you never believed that he was playing that soldano in the video because the plexi is powered on and the soldano is just sitting. I didn't notice the pedals though. I've only seen clips. So i suppose the magic sauce here are his hands + furman or other EQ's. I think I'll pick up a MXR 6 band. Another cool mid trick is the BOSS BF-2 flanger with all knobs set to 0 and level to taste as per Chubtone's thread from a while back. Really boosts the mids in a cool way but you have no real control over how much the frequency shifts.

 

[just42dave]

Sounds like a gorilla 210 to me but hell what do I know...

 

[Shiny_Surface]

EDIT

I can't believe this thread was revived but here's yet another (2nd attempt) clip, MXR ZW-44 and Boss EQ through front end. Boss RV-3 in loop of otherwise stock '83 JCM 800 with EL34's.

All these different paths to a similar destination.

 

[Marshall Law]

All these different paths to a similar destination.

 

[paulyc]

Another noted Furman user was Doug Aldrich until recently anyway...now I guess he uses the Majik Box Rocket Fuel instead.

And for the MOST insane midrange boost/cut sound of all...Ronni Le Tekro on "Knights of the New Thunder"...holy sh*t ! Boss OD-1 and supposedly the BOSS BF2 flanger trick mentioned above, but to me it seems like a narrow bandwidth parametric eq before the amp with a cut eq in the loop. SICK ! Pre and post distortion eq really holds the key to almost any tone (you can think of post distortion eq as whatever studio eq tricks were done through the console or on the output buss of the mixer too, not just in an amp's effects loop). Add in the typical 80's reverbs, delays, and chorus' for even more variety.

 

[Mudder]

All these different paths to a similar destination.

You know, normally I wouldn't talk shit about a guy who's just having some fun but he cracks me up being so bad. I don't know about the tone but his timing is hilarious.

 

[gtr31]

All these different paths to a similar destination.

You know, normally I wouldn't talk shit about a guy who's just having some fun but he cracks me up being so bad. I don't know about the tone but his timing is hilarious.

Nailed it!!!!!

 

[TeleBlaster]

LOL - I got an old Soloist I'm going to have to fix, I ran mine into a GK head way back when....

 

[paulyc]

Good grief ! THAT guy has a Bogner ? And he calls THAT "In My Dreams " ?

 

[charveldan]

 

[Bloodrock]

Charveldan FTW! Lynch would have sold his left nut for that amp back in the day. Great tone man.
FWIW I know that the old blue MXR six band EQ's Dimebag Darrell used were also in front of the amp with the 800k zone pushed up heavily. Of course he used the PQ's to scoop the mids out in the loop, but for whatever reason he swore by that 800k mid boost up front for his tone as well.

 

[paulyc]

I always read that it was the other way...the PQ3 was in front of the amp (for the frequency boost AND the gain boost going into the Randall) ,and then the MXR was scooping the mids in the loop...interesting...

 

[Bloodrock]

I always read that it was the other way...the PQ3 was in front of the amp (for the frequency boost AND the gain boost going into the Randall) ,and then the MXR was scooping the mids in the loop...interesting...

The PQ may have varied over the years, but I know his original guitar tech, and he says the MXR was always up front early on. Even when he was still using his little Yamaha combo! He also liked using a half dead battery in the MXR since it had no DC connector and hissed/fedback like a bitch with a full battery.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Let's take this one step further.... furman PQ3.. overpriced on the used market and apparently noisy as hell. Anyone making anything in pedal form? I know the majic box people had started something but it never went into production. Pauly had mentioned that parametric EQ's are the way to go, anything not costing 300$ out there? Nice and simple would be ideal.

PaulyC, are the newer black 6 band MXR EQ's as effective as the 70 and 80's blue EQ's?

 

[paulyc]

Boss, Ibanez, Pearl, and Carl Martin all made parametric eq pedals back in the day...all are used items now. The Furman is noisy...like a fish frying in a pan. I changed out the opamps and filter caps on mine trying to quiet it down ...no use. Loft, Rane, Audio Arts Engineering all made rack mount parametrics ...I have 3 of the loft ones...their silent. I've used the Audio Arts one...it's silent to.

The new black MXRs are better in my opinion because they have a by-pass switch and are pretty quiet (the blue MXRs are also like a fish fry) and they come up on CL pretty regularly MUCH cheaper than new ones...

There are also DOD graphic eq pedals, the old Boss GE10 (expensive because EVH use it), and Scholz (Rockman again) made a half rack space graphic that is the cat's ass of graphic eq for guitar. There are also full size graphics from most of the pa companies (on the used market). Rack stuff is usually quieter than pedal stuff.

 

[paulyc]

The Furman is noisy if you use the preamp part of it. There are 2 sets of jacks hi and low ins and outs. It's been a while since I've used mine, but I think to use the preamp function you plug into the low in and out. It spits out 20db of gain (about as much as an extra 12ax7 tube being put into your amp) if you max out the input gain control, but you'd better have a noise gate right after it (and maybe another one in the loop if your amp has one). It's not as bad if you use the hi ins and outs without the gain boost, so if you have, say, a Boss SD1, you could use that for the gain and just use the eq section. Also, if you find a PQ4 it's a 4 band parametric instead of 3 band, or a PQ6 is a stereo PQ3 (2 in one box) that go for less money 'cuz there's no "fame factor" (Dimebag, etc)...

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I don't know, those PQ4's are going for close to or over 200$ in most cases on ebay.... less abroad but the shipping gets you there fast! I think i will just go black box 6 band from MXR. GE7 is a tad noisy

 

[Gainfreak]

Another noted Furman user was Doug Aldrich until recently anyway...now I guess he uses the Majik Box Rocket Fuel instead.

And for the MOST insane midrange boost/cut sound of all...Ronni Le Tekro on "Knights of the New Thunder"...holy sh*t ! Boss OD-1 and supposedly the BOSS BF2 flanger trick mentioned above, but to me it seems like a narrow bandwidth parametric eq before the amp with a cut eq in the loop. SICK ! Pre and post distortion eq really holds the key to almost any tone (you can think of post distortion eq as whatever studio eq tricks were done through the console or on the output buss of the mixer too, not just in an amp's effects loop). Add in the typical 80's reverbs, delays, and chorus' for even more variety.

The BF2 flanger does act like the parametric eq. when it's set up like Ronni .

It Boosts 800hz at a narrow bandwidth, cuts down the treble @ 1200 and scoops out mids around 400hz. You can do the same thing with a parametric eq once you know the frequencies

 

[ibenhad]

Look...I don't KNOW what was used 'cuz I wasn't there...but I've read and / or watched EVERY article or video I could get my hands on since I first saw Dokken on MTV doing "Breaking The Chains" and was knocked ON MY ASS by Lynch and his original Tiger guitar...but the BIGGEST thing is just use your ears and powers of deduction based on what was going on at the time these recordings were made...there were NO boutique builders anywhere of amps or effects, so it's all off the shelf stuff. The Furman thing has been talked about TO DEATH all over the 'net, and if you try it, I'm sure you WILL hear it...with everyone from Lynch and Di Martini , Amir Derakh ( Rough Cutt), Nuno,Stryper and Brad Gillis ( the last two with Boogie amps) as well as others. Chris Holmes from WASP comes to mind. These guys all knew each other (legend has it that EVH borrowed an Ibanez Destroyer from Holmes during the VH1 sessions)

PaulyC I think you are pretty wrong here unless I misinterpret what you posted. Lee Jackson was one of the most popular modders back then lots of hot rodded JCM 800's from him. Bogner was around back then and provided some amps to EVH early on too. Wasn't Jose Arredondo modding amps then too and Cesar Diaz? The more I think about it lots of guys were modding and building boutique stuff. Not like today but they were there.

 

[Little B]

I have some magazines from the 80's - early 90's and George said he mixed in a Rockman for Under Lock & Key. Every single solo on that album just RIPS.

I was listening to those tracks today and I recalled some article from a long time ago about the Rockmans. Funny, it's been so long I couldn't remember if I'd actually read it, or if I'd heard of it on a forum.

I know the Rockman is all over Hysteria, I thought George's tone sounded similar.

Funny, even after all the modeling crap out now, the Rockman was doing a da+ng good job back in the 80's.

+1111!!!!!!....I just nabbed a full Rockman stack.1 of 50 ever made.I remember when Tom made that stuff it was all analog.sounds better than most digital modeling devices today.yes lock and key was supposed to have some Rockman gear on it.