Unpopular Rig-pinions

[dirtyfunkg]

Here goes:
22 fret guitars are inherently better than their 24 fret equivalents. That neck pickup placement is super important.
If you play in a two guitar hard rock/metal band, then the following statements are all true:
- Your tone has too much gain/distortion.
- You need more mids in your tone.
- You need to turn down.
- You need less bass in your tone.
Vintage Marshall amps are heavily overrated.
A cheap solid state amp (even, or maybe especially an analog amp) can sound great through the right cabinet. Lots of those 80's-'90's entry-level SS combos could sound wonderful through a nice 4x12.
Single coils are necessary for decent rock clean sounds. Jazz requires a humbucker (or at least a Tele lipstick pickup)
I don't think Slash is that special.
Outside of the thrash/death metal that was happening then, the '80's (and their tones) sucked. Van Halen was good but way too many people try to copy that.
The VH-1/2 "Brown sound" is hugely overrated and the amount of money people pay to try and get that type of tone makes no sense to me.
Chuck Taylors are the best for stomping on a pedal. Honorable mention to a well worn pair of combat boots, or a pair of flip flops. It's all about the feel, man.
I really dislike John Petrucci as a guitarist and most of his tones.
The '80's really sucked.

 

[UltraGary]

Played a few guitars recently and thought of both my fellow Rig-Talkers and this thread. Hows this for a spicy and very UNpopular opinion here on this topic: ESP guitars are sub-standard copies of real guitars, and only a forum shred-nerd would consider spending good $ on one.

(go ahead....shoot at me)

What's your fave stuff then? And this is in no way an attack, I'm just curious as Idk if I'm aware of guitars that make ESP look like shit (assuming we are talking about actual ESP Japan guitars and not LTD).

I never said that ESPs are shit, I said substandard...as in less-than-standard. I put them in the same class as Ibanez or Peavey. All are good instruments worthy of doing any job or creating any sort of musical magic, which is all a guitar should need to be capable of.
My 'substandard' comment comes more from their market-value and credibility (or to my point, 'forum-over-rated-ness'). In my opinion, seeing sellers trying to get $2000-$3000 for an ESP LP or SG-style guitar is ludicrous, and only a forum or Metallica fanboy would consider trading a 4-digit number of dollars for one. (again, just my un-popular opinion)

 

[braintheory]

Here goes:
22 fret guitars are inherently better than their 24 fret equivalents. That neck pickup placement is super important.
If you play in a two guitar hard rock/metal band, then the following statements are all true:
- Your tone has too much gain/distortion.
- You need more mids in your tone.
- You need to turn down.
- You need less bass in your tone.
Vintage Marshall amps are heavily overrated.
A cheap solid state amp (even, or maybe especially an analog amp) can sound great through the right cabinet. Lots of those 80's-'90's entry-level SS combos could sound wonderful through a nice 4x12.
Single coils are necessary for decent rock clean sounds. Jazz requires a humbucker (or at least a Tele lipstick pickup)
I don't think Slash is that special.
Outside of the thrash/death metal that was happening then, the '80's (and their tones) sucked. Van Halen was good but way too many people try to copy that.
The VH-1/2 "Brown sound" is hugely overrated and the amount of money people pay to try and get that type of tone makes no sense to me.
Chuck Taylors are the best for stomping on a pedal. Honorable mention to a well worn pair of combat boots, or a pair of flip flops. It's all about the feel, man.
I really dislike John Petrucci as a guitarist and most of his tones.
The '80's really sucked.

I actually with you on everything you mentioned except for vintage Marshall’s being overrated and I think there are still a few more good things from the ‘80’s like Randy Rhoads and Warren De Martini, but I can probably live without most of the rest

 

[Monkey Man]

The '80's really sucked.

Heresy!

Wash your mouth out with soap, brother.

 

[Racerxrated]

Dimebag was a very simple Pentatonic player. Nothing he did was that impressive, or innovative. He was a 'fierce' player though, and deserves the accolades for the most part. Terrible tone though. Just garbage. Great vibrato.
One of the best ever? Sorry but no.

People who dig on the 80s probably were in grade school and didn't experience it. They also own amps that reflect a modern tone only. Pretty easy tell.
Face it, you like what you grew up with in your formative yrs...and this applies to everyone 100%. Threads like this always prove this point. Whatever bands/players you grew up listening to, you will always gravitate to that era or tone being the 'best'. This is true every time, 100%.

Modelers suck compared to the real thing. You are wrong every time if you think you can compare them favorably for the modeler. They just aren't that close, and I've played them all with FRFR and tube power amps. Either that or your ear is garbage. If you choose to use them for ease of use/portability/convenience/recording I get it. But don't sit there and say 'it sounds just like the real thing!' because NOPE it doesn't.

People who don't think vintage amps sound amazing haven't owned or played one. Period. Or, your ears are shot. Fact. The only amps made today that can compare to a good vintage Marshall, Fender, Vox, HiWatt etc are amps that are made with some vintage parts. New amps sound generic and sterile by comparison to a good vintage amp. Is it the aging of the circuit/transformers? Who knows. Newer amps can sound really good; but just don't compare to the vintage amps. Btw vintage is 20 yrs old or more. So I don't necessarily mean 50 yr old amps.

Clips don't mean shit. If you are someone who bases their tone journey only on a good clip, well good luck. I've heard clips of amps that sound great only to buy them and return in a week. Other clips that sound like shit, I've taken a leap of faith based on opinions and glad I did. I'd take opinions and experiences of guys that own these amps 100 times out of 100 over any clip.

Have a great weekend!

 

[dirtyfunkg]

Dimebag was a very simple Pentatonic player. Nothing he did was that impressive, or innovative. He was a 'fierce' player though, and deserves the accolades for the most part. Terrible tone though. Just garbage. Great vibrato.
One of the best ever? Sorry but no.

People who dig on the 80s probably were in grade school and didn't experience it. They also own amps that reflect a modern tone only. Pretty easy tell.
Face it, you like what you grew up with in your formative yrs...and this applies to everyone 100%. Threads like this always prove this point. Whatever bands/players you grew up listening to, you will always gravitate to that era or tone being the 'best'. This is true every time, 100%.

Modelers suck compared to the real thing. You are wrong every time if you think you can compare them favorably for the modeler. They just aren't that close, and I've played them all with FRFR and tube power amps. Either that or your ear is garbage. If you choose to use them for ease of use/portability/convenience/recording I get it. But don't sit there and say 'it sounds just like the real thing!' because NOPE it doesn't.

People who don't think vintage amps sound amazing haven't owned or played one. Period. Or, your ears are shot. Fact. The only amps made today that can compare to a good vintage Marshall, Fender, Vox, HiWatt etc are amps that are made with some vintage parts. New amps sound generic and sterile by comparison to a good vintage amp. Is it the aging of the circuit/transformers? Who knows. Newer amps can sound really good; but just don't compare to the vintage amps. Btw vintage is 20 yrs old or more. So I don't necessarily mean 50 yr old amps.

Clips don't mean shit. If you are someone who bases their tone journey only on a good clip, well good luck. I've heard clips of amps that sound great only to buy them and return in a week. Other clips that sound like shit, I've taken a leap of faith based on opinions and glad I did. I'd take opinions and experiences of guys that own these amps 100 times out of 100 over any clip.

Have a great weekend!

Love it!

I mean, I disagree with almost everything you've said in this post, but still love it!

I was born in the late '80's. I think a lot of music from the '80's is good but it's not the radio hard rock. Love '80's Metallica, Slayer, Death, etc., and love The Police, Dire Straits, Petty, Springsteen, etc. I also do love Van Halen, particularly 1984 as a front to back album. I can also get drunk at a bar and sing along with Bon Jovi, Whitesnake, etc., but it's not the type of stuff I'll voluntarily listen to while sober lol. You're right I'm much more of a '90's guy, though. AiC, Soundgarden, Tool, STP, etc are more my style.

I agree that clips can be hugely misleading, but they can be a general guide of "what's this amp capable of?". It's all about trying the amp and seeing if it works for you.

Love Dime but agree with most of what you're saying. That said, I can't even come close to approaching his skill level, so...

I've played/owned some "vintage" Marshalls ('70's and '80's) and never really had a positive experience. Maybe I didn't have the right speakers, but I feel like I've gotten much better "Marshall" tones out of some of my more modern amps. It's totally possible that I just didn't have the "right" specimens, but these amps didn't have what I wanted out of them. Way too loud and too piercing for me to be able to dial out.

I've played several vintage black/brown/tweed Fenders. They sound good but they've never been like "WOW" to me. That said, I did play an old twin cranked to overdrive with a Hotplate to bring the level down, and it was a pretty awesome experience, but it was 15 years ago and after a half eighth of mushrooms so I think maybe a Pignose practice amp would have been great in that moment.

Another tone opinion: Marshall cleans are very underrated. I still think John Frusciante's clean tones on Blood Sugar Sex Magik are some of the best that have ever been recorded in rock music, and Hendrix clean/Fuzzface tones are right there with him (Bold as Love).

I do think that if I were to be faced with a blind test between modeler and its real amp counterpart--provided I'm not familiar with the specific real amp--I probably would not be able to tell which is the real amp and which is the modeler. I think, in particular, if the specific amp were modeled then shot out in a blind test, very few people would be able to tell which is real vs modeled.

I don't think modelers have been able to get the goods on classic fuzz pedals like a Fuzz Face or Big Muff. There's an immediacy to these pedals that just seems lost with the modelers.

 

[Racerxrated]

Dimebag was a very simple Pentatonic player. Nothing he did was that impressive, or innovative. He was a 'fierce' player though, and deserves the accolades for the most part. Terrible tone though. Just garbage. Great vibrato.
One of the best ever? Sorry but no.

People who dig on the 80s probably were in grade school and didn't experience it. They also own amps that reflect a modern tone only. Pretty easy tell.
Face it, you like what you grew up with in your formative yrs...and this applies to everyone 100%. Threads like this always prove this point. Whatever bands/players you grew up listening to, you will always gravitate to that era or tone being the 'best'. This is true every time, 100%.

Modelers suck compared to the real thing. You are wrong every time if you think you can compare them favorably for the modeler. They just aren't that close, and I've played them all with FRFR and tube power amps. Either that or your ear is garbage. If you choose to use them for ease of use/portability/convenience/recording I get it. But don't sit there and say 'it sounds just like the real thing!' because NOPE it doesn't.

People who don't think vintage amps sound amazing haven't owned or played one. Period. Or, your ears are shot. Fact. The only amps made today that can compare to a good vintage Marshall, Fender, Vox, HiWatt etc are amps that are made with some vintage parts. New amps sound generic and sterile by comparison to a good vintage amp. Is it the aging of the circuit/transformers? Who knows. Newer amps can sound really good; but just don't compare to the vintage amps. Btw vintage is 20 yrs old or more. So I don't necessarily mean 50 yr old amps.

Clips don't mean shit. If you are someone who bases their tone journey only on a good clip, well good luck. I've heard clips of amps that sound great only to buy them and return in a week. Other clips that sound like shit, I've taken a leap of faith based on opinions and glad I did. I'd take opinions and experiences of guys that own these amps 100 times out of 100 over any clip.

Have a great weekend!

Love it!

I mean, I disagree with almost everything you've said in this post, but still love it!

I was born in the late '80's. I think a lot of music from the '80's is good but it's not the radio hard rock. Love '80's Metallica, Slayer, Death, etc., and love The Police, Dire Straits, Petty, Springsteen, etc. I also do love Van Halen, particularly 1984 as a front to back album. I can also get drunk at a bar and sing along with Bon Jovi, Whitesnake, etc., but it's not the type of stuff I'll voluntarily listen to while sober lol. You're right I'm much more of a '90's guy, though. AiC, Soundgarden, Tool, STP, etc are more my style.

I agree that clips can be hugely misleading, but they can be a general guide of "what's this amp capable of?". It's all about trying the amp and seeing if it works for you.

Love Dime but agree with most of what you're saying. That said, I can't even come close to approaching his skill level, so...

I've played/owned some "vintage" Marshalls ('70's and '80's) and never really had a positive experience. Maybe I didn't have the right speakers, but I feel like I've gotten much better "Marshall" tones out of some of my more modern amps. It's totally possible that I just didn't have the "right" specimens, but these amps didn't have what I wanted out of them. Way too loud and too piercing for me to be able to dial out.

I've played several vintage black/brown/tweed Fenders. They sound good but they've never been like "WOW" to me. That said, I did play an old twin cranked to overdrive with a Hotplate to bring the level down, and it was a pretty awesome experience, but it was 15 years ago and after a half eighth of mushrooms so I think maybe a Pignose practice amp would have been great in that moment.

Another tone opinion: Marshall cleans are very underrated. I still think John Frusciante's clean tones on Blood Sugar Sex Magik are some of the best that have ever been recorded in rock music, and Hendrix clean/Fuzzface tones are right there with him (Bold as Love).

I do think that if I were to be faced with a blind test between modeler and its real amp counterpart--provided I'm not familiar with the specific real amp--I probably would not be able to tell which is the real amp and which is the modeler. I think, in particular, if the specific amp were modeled then shot out in a blind test, very few people would be able to tell which is real vs modeled.

I don't think modelers have been able to get the goods on classic fuzz pedals like a Fuzz Face or Big Muff. There's an immediacy to these pedals that just seems lost with the modelers.

I think we’d agree more than disagree; one thing with some amps is how sensitive they can be to a bad bias or speaker match. I just grabbed an 83 2203 that sounded pretty bad; but I was hoping it had tube issues. Bias was at 15 ma so once I got it up to 36 per it started singing. Plus 2 of the filter caps were leaking; changed them all and now with a boost it puts out like a Wizard lol.
And speakers..most Marshall’s sound like shit with say V30s...but put them through greenbacks and there it is.
And no, I can’t play like Dime either!

 

[UltraGary]

My unpopular opinions?

-Do you really need to use a tube screamer in front of an already high gain amp?
-Some regular production amps sound better then some boutique amps costing 3x as much.
-In a blind test, many would not even be able to tell the difference between a modeller and a tube amp these days.
-There are more amp plugins being used on popular recordings then we know.
-There are more modellers being used on popular recordings then we know.

I agree with all of your points except "-In a blind test, many would not even be able to tell the difference between a modeller and a tube amp these days.". Maybe if "many" includes drunk girlfriends, but I don't think that's what you're saying. While I agree modellers are tricking many in studio/recording environments.... once a bass rig and drum kit are set up next to an amp, the jig is up and a real amp becomes worth it's weight real quick. Yes...there are a couple examples otherwise in gigantic stadium-sized situations where the PA is on a whole other level from what most of us use, but generally speaking, Axe-FX & Kemper guys sound weak, processy & thin to me in most live environments.