Unpopular Rig-pinions

[ghosty999]

We all have them... so lets hear them!

(if you are emotionally affected by the opinions here, then please go outside for a walk and re-evaluate your priorities)

- Dimebags tone sounded like a fizz mess to me. The SS Randall sound was terrible especially when in the context of shredding pentatonics. That fizzy "insane on Line6 spider" sound never got me excited to hear in a mix, especially when he had access to 5051/6505, XXX, Mesa Rectos... Purists will say there is some ingenious reason behind it and it was all intentional but I don't buy that. Put me in a studio half cut with girls, drink, drugs etc and I'd probably dial in a tone I was happy with on a Roland Cube

- Dragging extremely high end gear to a small/medium venue has diminishing returns. Once your tone has been run through the desk and crappy PA system it probably has lost any of the nuances you hear at home, and not 1 single person in the whole venue would know if you switched to an AxeFX Std running direct.
It's like wine.... a 10$ bottle will be below average, a 50$ bottle will be great, and a 1000$ bottle is not worth the extra 950$ for the 0.000001% "better taste".

- People buy year, collect guitars, talk about gear, own a studio, tell others what to buy, critique others.... but you never hear their music. Lots of pictures of rigs, lots of "upgrading my rig" posts, lots of questions about setups.... but never any music? There is nothing wrong with this, but it's a weird phenomenon. If you have the best amp and tone.... go make some tunes!

- Dissing modern/djent/prog metal because it's homogeneous sounding is fair, but holding up 80s/90s bands as the benchmark is stupid. Those Axe-FX Djent kids are no different from what 60s boomers thought of you with your dig-multi FX and 20U Rack systems in 1991. It's better these kids are djenting and getting in to guitar, than doing nothing at all. Just because it doesn't fit within your narrow scope of acceptability... doesn't mean it's bad!

Now you go... and be as spicy as you wish!

 

[GJgo]

NICE! Yes, Dime's tone sucked. There's just no two ways around it & it's sad.

What if you only have high end gear?!?! I've actually thought about buying a cheaper guitar for gigs but then, what's the point? My last gig there were a couple guys in the front nerding out on my rig which made me happy. ESP / Triple Recto

I agree about the people who talk shit about your sound post but then have none of their own. WTF? Internet heroes.. I'm not the greatest player by any means but screw it, I'm putting myself out there anyway. It helps some guys in their tone quest & eff the haters.
https://www.youtube.com/user/fast13b/videos

I'm down with anyone doing a good job playing their musical style. Keep it interesting. Not that I want to listen to more than 5 minutes of some of it, but good on ya!

 

[ghosty999]

NICE! Yes, Dime's tone sucked. There's just no two ways around it & it's sad.

What if you only have high end gear?!?! I've actually thought about buying a cheaper guitar for gigs but then, what's the point? My last gig there were a couple guys in the front nerding out on my rig which made me happy. ESP / Triple Recto

I agree about the people who talk shit about your sound post but then have none of their own. WTF? Internet heroes.. I'm not the greatest player by any means but screw it, I'm putting myself out there anyway. It helps some guys in their tone quest & eff the haters.
https://www.youtube.com/user/fast13b/videos

I'm down with anyone doing a good job playing their musical style. Keep it interesting. Not that I want to listen to more than 5 minutes of some of it, but good on ya!

I agree! What if Dime's ears were shot, and we have just been compensating for this tone in our heads? Some Freudian shit right there haha

If you only have high end gear, profile it into a Kemper, re-create your signal chain with FX and call it a day.

Awsome response!

 

[311splawndude]

Dime - although I don't care for his guitar tone I do feel like it fit the context of their music. Raw, buzzy, chainsaw, in your face, almost irritating. Right? No?

Clips - I suck at guitar but I love amps and I love chasing different tones so I do it anyway

Although I don't understand it myself and people are certainly capable of making their own decisions I still can't wrap my head around spending thousands of dollars to wait years for " fill in the blank ".

I also agree that it is pointless to argue over "80's rock vs today's music" - although I do find it generally fascinating and I like to broaden my base by reading and listening to other's ideas/songs/tones.

 

[Rock Bodom]

I was just thinking of one on the ride into work this morning listening to Ride the Lightning.

I still think Metallica sounded better with Marshalls.

 

[ghosty999]

Dime - although I don't care for his guitar tone I do feel like it fit the context of their music. Raw, buzzy, chainsaw, in your face, almost irritating. Right? No?

Okay maybe you got something there but imagine the Dime riff's wall to wall with cranked Mesa Boogie Coliseum 300. In my opinion his tone ruined his playing. No articulation or mid range clarity, just bee in a can. This is how people are:

If a 13 year old does that tone on a Line 6 Spider = BAD, GO BUY A VALVE AMP!
If a Dimebag does that tone on a Line 6 Spider = HE IS GOD, NO QUESTIONS ASKED, HE INTENDED IT TO BE THAT WAY, IT SUITS THE MIX etc etc etc

We always forget that these guitar heros are just humans, and their ears can suck

 

[GJgo]

If Dime wanted a buzz saw he should've used a Mark III Coliseum!!!

 

[311splawndude]

^^ ghosty - Oh yeah. I'm sure his tone would have been amazeballs on a Rectifier or Mark or just about anything else.

And I'm not a Dime expert. I know for a fact there are guys on here that can probably come in and set the record straight

I personally never cared enough to do a lot of research on it but I have a hunch that his ears were fine - that was just the tone he wanted. Like it or not, it was usually double tracked and did have that wall of sound thing for sure. Crank that shit up in a club with some Jagermeister, Bud Light, bud in general or whatever those kids were doing back then and it was




(again, not trying to change anyone's opinion I don't personally care for Dime's tone -RIP

 

[ghosty999]

^^ ghosty - Oh yeah. I'm sure his tone would have been amazeballs on a Rectifier or Mark or just about anything else.

And I'm not a Dime expert. I know for a fact there are guys on here that can probably come in and set the record straight

I personally never cared enough to do a lot of research on it but I have a hunch that his ears were fine - that was just the tone he wanted. Like it or not, it was usually double tracked and did have that wall of sound thing for sure. Crank that shit up in a club with some Jagermeister, Bud Light, bud in general or whatever those kids were doing back then and it was


(again, not trying to change anyone's opinion I don't personally care for Dime's tone -RIP

Haha I feel ya! My theory is if it goes in my ears and makes me sad/irritated instantly, I don't listen. That was me with Pantera. Someone explaining to me why my ears are wrong wont change how my ears work. It will just make them seem like they are over compensating, which proves my point... if a tone requires someone to explain why its good... it's probably not organically good at the source.

 

[Racerxrated]

Ok here I go-

Not a Pantera or Metallica fan. I’m more of a ‘Fairweather Fan’ in that I loved Dimes playing, and the importance of who Metallica and Pantera are. I literally have 10 songs total from BOTH bands that I occasionally listen to. So, I agree on Dimes tone. I do think those Randall’s are cool but I don’t dial them anywhere near the way Dime did.

C+ for Metallica or metulzz?? No chance. Way more mids than those Metallica tones. Ugh. Never been a fan. A C+ tone example? I like early Nightranger tone way better than any C+ Metallica tone..Black album is great tone but that’s a bunch of amps not just the C+.

Crowd doesn’t care WHAT you bring to the gig; but better amps DO sound better through a PA. I’ve stood out front wireless through 30+ yrs of sound checks to know there is a difference. But most importantly I hear how good I sound on stage. I could care less what the crowd thinks; only that I’m coming through the pa.

This isn’t ‘recorded clips talk’ it’s Rig Talk. Any of you that I’ve sent a phone clip to, feel free to post it here. I have no friggin clue how to post a clip here since it became difficult to even post pics here. Lol
I think it’s cool that people do; but not a requirement.
But if someone rips on a clip but has none of their own? That’s BS and they should be given a timeout from the forum. No room for them here imo.

 

[Thunkful]

Agree on Dime's later Buzzsaw type of sound. I think that he's sound was more Marshall'y during Pantera's Hair Metal era and it was better imo.

But when it comes to the Modellers etc. I think that Tube amps sound and especially feel better imo and Higher end Modellers are not that cheap either. Though couldn't agree more about spending too much money on amps. Personally i have a locally built amp that cost me little over 2000€ and i'm not going spend even that much on an amp in future as i'd like to move into lunchbox sized amps.

Also there's a lot of cheaper options in amp department too. With companies like Blackstar, Ceriatone etc. i don't see a reason to use modellers personally.

 

[PBGas]

Cannot argue.

No one can really tell the difference when listening to you play live. They are listening to your music as a band.
The main message here is that you enjoy the gear you use. If it makes you have more fun and enjoy playing, then things are good.

I hate carrying a lot of stuff to gigs and rehearsals myself so I have scaled things down considerably over the years. We recently even scaled our PA system down to be lighter and easier to use/setup. It makes a nice difference and less of a chore.

 

[Markedman]

Dime's tone? Hendrix's tone? Page's tone? Always different! All the greats never had just one tone! Fuckung Dime, Zakk and Hetfield rule the Metal God tone and they also have cowboy tone. I hate the SRV/EJ tone, it makes me insane in the membrane so I get what you're saying, tone of your own.

 

[nightflameauto]

But if someone rips on a clip but has none of their own? That’s BS and they should be given a timeout from the forum. No room for them here imo.

100% agreement here.

On Dime,
I admire Dime for two things. The boy could play like a motherfucker. And, he didn't give a fuck about sounding smooth, or getting pretty tones, or impressing guitar nerds with his expressive mids. He got raw, ugly, fuck-off tones and played his fucking ass off.

Was it shit tone? Absolutely. Did he have a single fuck to give? Nope.

For other unpopular opinions of my own:
-I think the majority of metal players now focus WAAAAAY too much on trying to find the perfect smooth, pretty, glorious tone, and not nearly enough on playing. Probably myself included.

-Metalzones make incredible boosts. Fight me.

-I'd take my shitty Marshall DSL over your boutique multi-year-wait hand-wired amp for one simple reason: It could die in a fire and I could have another one tomorrow and know EXACTLY how to dial it in in two minutes flat. And for my ears, the boutiques just don't jump out as anything special to me 99 times out of 100. Marshall + boost or 5150 + boost can cover a LOT of territory. If you have the money to spend, by all means do it, but I'm not gonna line up to suck your dick over it.

-Non-players talking shit about players on a gear forum need to be ignored. Period. Railing against them just feeds their puny little thimble sized egos.

-I'll respect a dude shredding his face off on a cheap guitar over a dude that owns all the fanciest shit in existence and then can't even play a g-chord.

Come @ me.

 

[SoooRad]

Overly complex rigs used live are a waste of time. To the same effect that the audience can't tell the difference. Thats not to say that they couldn't tell the difference between a Pod and a Bogner, but more to say that you don't need 4 different overdrive pedals on a board. You're literally just piling up excuses for why you can't play if something goes bad.

People have overhyped George Lynch to death, and then don't respect the fact that he does whatever he wants now. I mean shit, I don't want to play shitty Dokken songs either, so I can't blame him for doing weird stuff.

The '87 album guitar tone sucks compared to the Blue Murder stuff. Sounds like a cheesy interpretation. But even the Blue Murder tone is way overrated.

Ozzy's best work, bar none, is No More Tears. The whole package is better than anything he had output before, and certainly since.

The majority of the aftermarket pickup business is catering to basement-dwelling schmoes who would shit their pants if they ever had to play in front of an audience.

 

[sleewell2]

- Dime's tone fit the band and his attitude more than made up for it. he put every ounce of his soul into every riff, solo and performance. i would take that kind of person 100% of the time over someone who is more focused on gear.


- many people i trust are telling me i am getting the best tones i have ever had with a helix into ss quilters. who knows?!? i just know its fun to play this rig so i am going to keep doing it.

- music and gear elitists generally suck the fun right out of everything and most of the time don't have the chops to warrant their opinions.

 

[ClintN667]

I was never a fan of Dime's tone either. I liked Pantera ok especially the first two albums. I was more of a Megadeth/Overkill fan in my early teens until I got into Carcass, Death, Bolt Thrower, and Morbid Angel.

I dont post clips often if ever. I did post a clip of my Splawn Nitro with a buxom boost, the Monomyth Superlead, and the KSR Ceres but not to this group. Im an average player but a terrible recorder. I tend to only post something(usually on social media) when I have a recording that I think is representative of what I experience in the room.

I like nice gear but I completely agree on diminishing returns. I've bought a good bit of gear the past two years and have come to the conclusion that I dont really need all this. I love my Orthos and my modded 2204. I have 3 amps on my bucket list -a Mesa Mark IV, another 5150 type amp, and something from Orange. Nothing extravagant but I've pretty much lost interest in all the latest and greatest stuff coming out. I think we tend to split hairs on tone. Ive actually been spending more regularly on lessons lately and Im much happier for it.

An unpopular opinion I have is why so many people are STILL chasing EVH's tone or Jon Mayer's? Im actually surprised when someone gets excited about Jon Mayer's music period. To me he is in that same boat as Dave Matthews. VH 1984 was my first album as a kid(I was 7-8) so I guess I really missed the VH being exciting days. They were lost in with all the other hair metal bands. When I was 12 I went from listening to GNR to going to heavier stuff really quickly. Revisiting a lot of the hair metal stuff is fun as is 80's music, 70's, and old funk. Some days I just go to something like Ultimate guitar and just play random songs.

A huge pet peeve is the dick riding on Youtube channels. A lot of these guys people wouldnt give a fucking second listen if they were not demoing high end gear. So a lot of gear enthusiasts hold mediocre guitarists in high esteem cause they have a new Friedman, Fortin, or whatever. While other channels with damn good guitarist with objective and useful demos get overlooked.

 

[ghosty999]

But if someone rips on a clip but has none of their own? That’s BS and they should be given a timeout from the forum. No room for them here imo.

100% agreement here.

On Dime,
I admire Dime for two things. The boy could play like a motherfucker. And, he didn't give a fuck about sounding smooth, or getting pretty tones, or impressing guitar nerds with his expressive mids. He got raw, ugly, fuck-off tones and played his fucking ass off.

Was it shit tone? Absolutely. Did he have a single fuck to give? Nope.

For other unpopular opinions of my own:
-I think the majority of metal players now focus WAAAAAY too much on trying to find the perfect smooth, pretty, glorious tone, and not nearly enough on playing. Probably myself included.

-Metalzones make incredible boosts. Fight me.

-I'd take my shitty Marshall DSL over your boutique multi-year-wait hand-wired amp for one simple reason: It could die in a fire and I could have another one tomorrow and know EXACTLY how to dial it in in two minutes flat. And for my ears, the boutiques just don't jump out as anything special to me 99 times out of 100. Marshall + boost or 5150 + boost can cover a LOT of territory. If you have the money to spend, by all means do it, but I'm not gonna line up to suck your dick over it.

-Non-players talking shit about players on a gear forum need to be ignored. Period. Railing against them just feeds their puny little thimble sized egos.

-I'll respect a dude shredding his face off on a cheap guitar over a dude that owns all the fanciest shit in existence and then can't even play a g-chord.

Come @ me.

This is spicy, I approve of this

 

[ghosty999]

- Dime's tone fit the band and his attitude more than made up for it. he put every ounce of his soul into every riff, solo and performance. i would take that kind of person 100% of the time over someone who is more focused on gear.


- many people i trust are telling me i am getting the best tones i have ever had with a helix into ss quilters. who knows?!? i just know its fun to play this rig so i am going to keep doing it.

- music and gear elitists generally suck the fun right out of everything and most of the time don't have the chops to warrant their opinions.

Agree 100% with points 2 and 3. But on Point 1, why does Dime require so much justification? "Oh but he recorded it with soul and passion".... well great? I put alot of heart and soul into my bowel movements. It's still shit leaving my arse.

Also the psychology that "Dime didn't give a fuck so you shouldn't either?" Yeah that's really "bad ass" and "edgy" but does it improve his tone for my ears? Nope.

 

[phil b]

There are LOTS of players on the web that recommend gear and rip on other gear.. swear by certain amps etc and have clips.... Problem is they cant play!!! Its like Phil Collen trying to be Yngwie. or same guys that try and play melodic and have no sense of phrasing or playing in key. I honestly cant understand how anyone would take any recommendation seriously? Check out my 10k amp... I know an A chord... but dont it sound great?

Doesnt matter how good any of us are cause there is 10 yr old Chinese girl whos better!! My point is before you become so strongly opinionated at least have SOME chops to back it up.